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Episode Delays

vacantlook

Super Moderator
I just had someone on another message board mention that there was a several month delay in a season premier episode of Babylon 5 because of the episode's CGI effects being unfinished. Does any of the knowledgable folk of this board know to which episode this person referenced?
 
Someone is deeply confused. No episode of B5 was delayed even by a single week during the five year run due to CGI problems - much less a season premiere episode. Episodes were delayed for other reasons (NBA play-offs, etc.), but - again - never a season's debut episode. (Several episodes had the CGI completed very close to the deadline for uplinking it to the satellite - sometimes within hours - but none ever failed to meet the deadline.)

The writer may be thinking of "Chrysalis" - the final S1 episode and the cliff-hanger leading into S2. "Chrysalis" wasn't delayed, but it was shot out of order, around the middle of the S1 production run, in order to give the post-production people the extra time that everyone knew they would need for the show. Other episodes were shot a little bit earlier in a season than their airdates would seem to warrant for the same reason.

Regards,

Joe
 
Thanks Joe.

I've been going through the Lurker's Guide to acquire all the original broadcast dates to present to this individual and came across this statement for "Crysalis."

"First broadcast in the UK on October 3, 1994. PTEN didn't want to show it during August, traditionally a month of low viewership, in the US, so it was held back until the week before the first season-two episodes, becoming, to all appearances, the season-two premiere. In fact, PTEN even advertised it as such. But, as stated, it was produced halfway through the first year of shooting, so definitely qualifies as a season-one episode."

Perhaps this is what the person I mentioned is thinking of.
 
For posterity and reference in this thread, here is the situation. This topic came up on a message board for the show Gene Roddenberry's Andromeda. The topic of discussion in a thread on this board that spawned my asking the question I did above is about the CGI space and ship effects. Many Andromeda fans have become annoyed with the show's tendency to use stock footage of ships for large fleet engagements. It's caused ships of races to be shown participating in battles that they wouldn't ever be at because of the actual plot of the show as well as showing several identical shots of ships moving about throughout the battlefield engaging targets multiple times in a single episode. A point was brought up that the reason for such repetative and/or incorrect use of stock footage in these major fleet battle scenes is due to the show having such a low budget.

So, I inquired as to what the budget for one episode was. The reply I got was about $1 million. That poster reflectively commented in a question to me that it's amazing what they do with their limited budget (compared to shows that have larger per-episode budgets like Star Trek). I replied that hearing that made me disappointed that the stock footage and intra-episode repetition was a result of a budget that size since Babylon 5 is quoted as having a per-episode budget of around $900,000 or less per episode yet had amazing CGI effects. I commented that I didn't have a problem if stock footage was used for something mundane like the Maru (a ship used frequently as a shuttle) docking in Andromeda's docking bay, but that I did have a problem when stock footage is used in a major fleet engagement that's supposed to provide an episode with some impact. I granted that of course the inflation over the years would have an impact, but also noted that over the years, CGI technology has vastly improved as well as more people have become skilled in its application. Over all, I think it balances out.

I then got this reply from the poster in question:

Two things to remember about Babylon 5.
1) It was shot ten years ago. Prices have gone UP.

2) B5 had to postpone one season opener for months because the SFX weren't done. One of the big marketing problems B5 had was its schedule was erratic because of problems getting effects on time. They were often very, very late. It don't think Tribune wants to say to the buyers, oops, we can't air our big season ender for six weeks or more cause the effects aren't done.

I then came and posted my question in my first post above and began to research and compile a response, which I now want to share here for those who are curious.

My response:

Oh the fun of the Lurker's Guide To Babylon 5: I went and looked up every single original broadcast date. To the lax observer, some places may seem awkward, but all the episodes are consistant in their broadcast delivery. Seasons have four or five episodes (with the exception of season one which has only one) broadcast in the autumn quite some time after the episode prior, but as notated, that was a desire of the distributing company, and has nothing to do with being unable to finalize the CGI work on time. Dates given are for the US broadcast with notable UK broadcast differences provided in parentheses. That the final several episodes in a season were broadcast in the UK before they were broadcast in the US shows that the delay of showing the last several episodes in a season until the fall was a distributing company choice in order to have episodes show at a specific time in the year here in the US (most likely to maximize ratings), not because the episodes weren't ready due to time constraints of the CGI department. Babylon 5 was consistantly produced with amazing special effects for a show with such a small budget.

Season One

January 26, 1994 -- Midnight On The Firing Line
February 2, 1994 -- Soul Hunter
February 9, 1994 -- Born To The Purple
February 18, 1994 -- Infection
February 23, 1994 -- The Parliament Of Dreams
March 2, 1994 -- Mind War
March 9, 1994 -- The War Prayer
March 16, 1994 -- And The Sky Full Of Stars
April 20, 1994 -- Deathwalker
April 27, 1994 -- Believers
May 4, 1994 -- Survivors
May 11, 1994 -- By Any Means Necessary
May 18, 1994 -- Signs And Portents
May 25, 1994 -- TKO
July 6, 1994 -- Grail
July 13, 1994 -- Eyes
July 20, 1994 -- Legacies
July 27, 1994 -- A Voice In The Wilderness, Part One
August 3, 1994 -- A Voice In The Wilderness, Part Two
August 10, 1994 -- Babylon Squared
August 17, 1994 -- The Quality Of Mercy
October 26, 1994 -- Crysalis**

**First broadcast in the UK on October 3, 1994. PTEN didn't want to show it during August, traditionally a month of low viewership, in the US, so it was held back until the week before the first season-two episodes, becoming, to all appearances, the season-two premiere. In fact, PTEN even advertised it as such. But, as stated, it was produced halfway through the first year of shooting, so definitely qualifies as a season-one episode.

Season Two

November 2, 1994 -- Points Of Departure
November 9, 1994 -- Revelations
November 16, 1994 -- The Geometry Of Shadows
November 23, 1994 -- A Distant Star
November 30, 1994 -- The Long Dark
December 7, 1994 -- A Spider In The Web
December 14, 1994 -- Soul Mates
January 25, 1995 -- A Race Through Dark Places
February 1, 1995 -- The Coming Of Shadows
February 8, 1995 -- GROPOS
February 15, 1995 -- All Alone In The Night
February 22, 1995 -- Acts Of Sacrifice
March 1, 1995 -- Hunter, Prey
April 26, 1995 -- There All The Honor Lies
May 3, 1995 -- And Now For A Word
May 10, 1995 -- In The Shadow Of Z'ha'dum
May 17, 1995 -- Knives
May 24, 1995 -- Confessions And Lamentations
October 11, 1995 (US) (July 25, 1995 in the UK) -- Divided Loyalties
October 18, 1995 (US) (August 1, 1995 in the UK) -- The Long, Twilight Struggle
October 25, 1995 (US) (August 8, 1995 in the UK) -- Comes The Inquisitor
November 1, 1995 (US) (August 15, 1995 in the UK) -- The Fall Of Night

Season Three

November 6, 1995 -- Matters Of Honor
November 13, 1995 -- Convictions
November 20, 1995 -- A Day In The Strife
November 27, 1995 -- Passing Through Gethsemane
January 29, 1996 -- Voices Of Authority
February 5, 1996 -- Dust To Dust
February 12, 1996 -- Exogenesis
Febrary 19, 1996 -- Messages From Earth
Febrary 16, 1996 -- Point Of No Return
April 1, 1996 -- Severed Dreams
April 8, 1996 -- Ceremonies Of Light And Dark
April 15, 1996 -- Sic Transit Vir
April 22, 1996 -- A Late Delivery From Avalon
April 29, 1996 -- Ship Of Tears
May 6, 1996 -- Interludes And Examinations
May 13, 1996 -- War Without End, Part One
May 20, 1996 -- War Without End, Part Two
September 30, 1996 (US) (August 18, 1996 in the UK) -- Walkabout
October 7, 1996 (US) (September 10, 1996 in the UK) -- Grey 17 Is Missing
October 14, 1996 (US) (September 8, 1996 in the UK) -- And The Rock Called Out, No Hiding Place
October 21, 1996 (US) (September 15, 1996 in the UK) -- Shadow Dancing
October 28, 1996 (US) (September 22, 1996 in the UK) -- Z'ha'dum

Season Four

November 4, 1996 -- The Hour Of The Wolf
November 11, 1996 -- Whatever Happened To Mr. Garibaldi?
November 18, 1996 -- The Summoning
November 25, 1996 -- Falling Toward Apotheosis
January 27, 1997 -- The Long Night
February 3, 1997 -- Into The Fire
February 10, 1997 -- Epiphanies
February 17, 1997 -- The Illusion Of Truth
February 24, 1997 -- Atonement
April 21, 1997 -- Racing Mars
April 28, 1997 -- Lines Of Communication
May 5, 1997 -- Conflicts Of Interest
May 12, 1997 -- Rumors, Bargains And Lies
May 19, 1997 -- Moments Of Transition
May 26, 1997 -- No Surrender, No Retreat
June 2, 1997 -- The Exercise Of Vital Powers
June 9, 1997 -- The Face Of The Enemy
June 16, 1997 -- Intersections In Real Time
October 6, 1997 -- Between The Darkness And The Light
October 13, 1997 -- Endgame
October 20, 1997 -- Rising Star
October 27, 1997 -- The Deconstruction Of Falling Stars

Season Five

January 21, 1998 -- No Compromises
January 28, 1998 -- The Very Long Night Of Londo Mollari
February 4, 1998 -- The Paragon Of Animals
February 11, 1998 -- A View From The Gallery
February 18, 1998 -- Learning Curve
February 25, 1998 -- Strange Relations
March 4, 1998 -- Secrets Of The Soul
March 18, 1998 -- In The Kingdom Of The Blind
March 25, 1998 -- A Tragedy Of Telepaths
April 1, 1998 -- Phoenix Rising
March 11, 1998 -- Day Of The Dead**
April 8, 1998 -- The Ragged Edge
April 15, 1998 -- The Corps Is Mother, The Corps Is Father
May 27, 1998 -- Meditations On The Abyss
June 3, 1998 -- Darkness Ascending
June 10, 1998 -- And All My Dreams, Torn Asunder
June 17, 1998 -- Movements Of Fire And Shadow
October 28, 1998 -- The Fall Of Centuri Prime
November 4, 1998 -- The Wheel Of Fire
November 11, 1998 -- Objects In Motion
November 18, 1998 -- Objects At Rest
November 25, 1998 -- Sleeping In Light

**This episode was originally supposed to be three slots later in the airing sequence, but was pulled back due to the spring hiatus on TNT. jms speaks: "We suggested moving up DotD because the NBA playoffs will hit after #12, and better to have 3-4 intense episodes in a row, culminating in 12, than to break up the middle, which would've been okay as a respite if there wasn't going to be a break, but since there is a break now, I want to slam the last few before it hits for more impact."

vacantlook note: The above order for the season five episodes are listed in the order they were to occur before the decision mentioned in the paragraph above altered the broadcast order for the season's first broadcast run, thus listing "Day of the Dead" after "Phoenix Rising." As the date listed for "Day of the Dead" indicates, for the first time the season was broadcast, "Day of the Dead" was shown before "The Kingdom of the Blind."

Dates and asterisked statements are citations of the Lurker's Guide found at http://www.midwinter.com/lurk/lurker.html
 
Oh, and Joe, I know I said it above, but I wanted to take a full post to thank you for your help and comments above. I knew I hadn't lost my mind. I think reading the poster's comment just tripped a fuse in my cognition for a while, but thanks to you and the wonderful folks at the Lurker's Guide, I can think normally again.

Merci beaucoup!

:)
 
As for his comment that prices have gone up, that is true in most realms, but definitely not CGI! The cost of better and faster computers is much lower than when B5 was being filmed. For the same cost as B5's CGI, you could do it much cheaper in this day in age, and the hardware and software is constantly improved and much cheaper!

Sounds like the guy is full of it.

-Tim
 
I commented that I didn't have a problem if stock footage was used for something mundane like the Maru (a ship used frequently as a shuttle) docking in Andromeda's docking bay, but that I did have a problem when stock footage is used in a major fleet engagement that's supposed to provide an episode with some impact.

Babylon 5 often used stock footage for a generic transport (which doubled as a prison shuttle) seen leaving the station, and also for the station seen rotating with various ships passing by, approaching or leaving, etc., but not for major, multi-ship, multi-race CGI sequences in events that were supposed to be specific for an episode. B5 used stock footage where it made sense to use stock footage, to represent the day to day, business as usual events that most people don't photograph because they see it all the time.
 
Yeah, if I can have a copy of Maya (which while I have, I've never actually tried to do anything with it), then there's no excuse (in my opinion) that a production company's dealing with increased prices versus ten years ago to not be able to acquire sufficient programming to produce good CGI.

I don't know who all here has actually watched Andromeda, but the ship shots almost always look smudged and jumpy. The ships rarely behave as if they're actually in space, and more look along the lines of someone plotting out their motion in CGI software as quickly as possible rather than taking a bit more time to make their motions look realisitic.

Another voice entered into the discussion today on that board saying (paraphrased) that the only good comparison to Andromeda would be another syndicated show, not a network show (it's "apples and oranges" to quote the person).

Maybe I'm just biased because of my love for B5, but I thought it was fairly well known that B5 was syndicated for its first four years.

As it stands, the only reason I watch Andromeda is for the character Trance Gemini. I have a tendency to love mysteries, and she's definitely mysterious. If it wasn't for her, I think I would just give up on the show. The episodes this past season were mostly crap with them seemingly doing whatever they could just to be able to show two characters sucking face. The near obliteration of continuity has pissed off a lot of fans of the show.

I wish there was some good space sci fi on tv these days. With not having new episodes of Farscape being produced, it kind of feels like there is no sci fi on tv anymore.
 
I wish there was some good space sci fi on tv these days. With not having new episodes of Farscape being produced, it kind of feels like there is no sci fi on tv anymore.

All we have, in production are SG-1 (very little in space) and Enterprise (not very inspiring).
 
I tried to watch Stargate SG-1 a few times and I always ended up finding the show to be bland.

I was eager about Enterprise during the first season, but quickly thereafter becaome somewhat disillusioned and found it not capturing my imagination like other Star Trek series have.

It really isn't a good time for science fiction television, it seems.

Thankfully, we have Babylon 5 boxed sets!
 
I tried to watch Stargate SG-1 a few times and I always ended up finding the show to be bland.

I was eager about Enterprise during the first season, but quickly thereafter becaome somewhat disillusioned and found it not capturing my imagination like other Star Trek series have.


Compared to "Enterprise," "SG-1" is definitely not bland. "Enterprise"
identity.jpg
"bland." Look up "bland" in the dictionary and Archer's picture is there! :devil:
 

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