EpDis: Thirdspace

[Wulf]

Hey, it's the future, terms stick around after they're no longer accurate.

There's an entire generation now that has no clue that they're not really dialing their friends on the phone, or filming things with their digital cameras. They're not even rewinding their DVDs to go back to the beginning of the scene.

Some might even forget that they're not really clicking links on their mobile phones, but if you try to tell them that they'll just hang up on you.


...Or carbon dating just sounds like it would work so they threw it in, but I'm a bit of a Devil's advocate.

 

[A_M_Swallow]

Hey, it's the future, terms stick around after they're no longer accurate.

There's an entire generation now that has no clue that they're not really dialing their friends on the phone, or filming things with their digital cameras. They're not even rewinding their DVDs to go back to the beginning of the scene.

Some might even forget that they're not really clicking links on their mobile phones, but if you try to tell them that they'll just hang up on you.


...Or carbon dating just sounds like it would work so they threw it in, but I'm a bit of a Devil's advocate.

Meteors are dated using lead dating.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lead-lead_dating

With minor adjustments both carbon and lead can be dated using the same equipment. Wait 250 years and such adjustments could have been automated.

 

[Springer]

I think the point that Lennier's Tears was making is that carbon-14 has a half life of 5,700 years, so you can't really use it to date anything older than 50,000 to 100,000 years. The Thirdspace artefact was millions of years old. No advancements in technology in the future is going to change the half life of carbon.

 

[Mororless]

My guess it was just a bit of shorthand by JMS, a lot of the public understand that carbon dating allows you to judge the age of old objects without really understanding that it works via radioactive half life.

 

[Lord Garth]

I started watching Thirdspace last night. I stopped it two-thirds of the way through but will be finishing it later on today. I really hate to say it, but so far this feels like the Star Trek: Insurrection of Babylon 5.

More thoughts when I finish.

 

[Lord Garth]

"Thirdspace"

This was disappointing. It felt like a 45-minute episode stretched into 90 that would've fit during a lull in the fourth season if there had ever been a lull. There's normal space, Hyperspace which allows you to travel from Point A to Point B quickly, and Thirdspace which allows you travel from Point A to Point B instantaneously. That's an interesting way of looking at from one place to another fast or immediately.

Except there's not enough material going around it to keep it interesting. The Vorlons tried to (re)invent Thirdspace thousands of years ago. Except it makes everyone go mad. Better than turning into salamanders like on Voyager, but that doesn't make it interesting. And once everyone on Babylon 5 goes crazy and there's mindless action, I began to mentally tune out.

I know it's supposed to be a movie, but I think a movie is where bigger ideas should be brought out rather than bigger fights. Crazy, I know.

Lyta's telepathy is what triggers the craziness, leaving Sheridan and Ivanova to have to shut down Thirdspace on their end. That barely makes sense to me, but that's how I recall it.

Thirdspace is like the Star Trek: Insurrection of Babylon 5. Both movies are standalone stories that take place while wars are going on during the TV Series. During B5's fifth season there was Babylon 5 vs. Earth, Vorlons vs. Shadows, Narn vs. Centauri, and Centauri vs. Centauri all going on during the season. And Thirdspace doesn't involve itself with any of those wars. Which I can I understand since it can't resolve any of those wars nor would there be any time to explain any of them.

Except the story isn't compelling. Sheridan wants to find out about Thirdpsace and classify the information if it's something they can't use. And that's what happens.

No character arcs. No clear-cut antagonists. The closest we get to antagonist is IPX, and they're more like frenemies. They're with Earth but independent as a business. Which sounded fishy to me. You're either part of Clark's Earth or you're not. There's no in-between it comes to Clark. But that's as deep as we get into the explanation for why IPX is willing to work with Babylon 5.

Credit where credit is due though. I so thoroughly distrusted IPX that I truly believed they would turn on Babylon 5 for real until it was revealed they didn't.

I'm struggling to think of anything else to say. Nice camera angles, nice music, it feels more expensive than the average Babylon 5 story. But I expected more from Thirdspace. I give it a 5 out of 10. Which translates roughly to a D here.

 

[Ubik]

None of the stand alone TV movies are very good. Only In The Beginning really add some value to the show. River of Souls remains a perfect unintentional comedy vehicle for Martin Sheen. This one was screened at our University Sci-Fi cinema club upon release. The was a lot of laughter, none of it intentional but we had a blast watching just for how how bad it was.

 

[Springer]

Huh, I like Thirdspace, my favourite of the movies. It's got creepy aliens designed by Wayne Barlowe, two or three good guest stars, some action, a really eerie ambience, some Vorlon history, Lyta's powers, an excellent soundtrack, and it moves at a decent pace. I know we can't all like the same things, but it is not bad enough to laugh at.

 

[Ubik]

Huh, I like Thirdspace, my favourite of the movies. It's got creepy aliens designed by Wayne Barlowe, two or three good guest stars, some action, a really eerie ambience, some Vorlon history, Lyta's powers, an excellent soundtrack, and it moves at a decent pace. I know we can't all like the same things, but it is not bad enough to laugh at.

River of Souls is more than bad enough to laugh at.

 

[Springer]

River of Souls is more than bad enough to laugh at.

Quick edit: Ah, I thought you were calling Thirdspace laughable, now I realise you meant River of Souls. mea culpa.

But even that has good things going for it. Martin Sheen and Ian McShane are good in everything they do. The first 10 minutes of the movie with the archeological dig hangs together pretty well. Richard Biggs puts in an impressive cameo. Tracy Scoggins shows that the she can play the lead, it was a shame she didn't get more opportunities.

Admittedly the holo stuff doesn't work at all and given it's meant to be humorous it ironically doesn't generate any laughter. And it is my least favourite of the movies and it has been a long time since I last watched it.

If something I like puts out a bad installment then I'm disappointed by it; I was disappointed with River of Souls, but given how good the vast majority of the rest of B5 is, I'm willing to cut them some slack.

 

[Looney]

I'm going to lead with I like STAR TREK INSURRECTION (1998). I wouldn't say I love it, but 2nd Favorite Next Gen movie. And I think NEMESIS (2002) suffered without Frakes directing. That being said I can see some of the arguments against INSURRECTION (1998) stemming from Frakes maybe having a little too much fun with the cast. A bit too much actual human emotion versus Star Trek emotion, if that makes sense.

Moving on to THIRDSPACE (1998). 3rd Favorite B5 film. Not perfect by any stretch, but I definitely enjoy it. I think my biggest issue with it might be that it seems slightly too standalone. What I mean by that is the series is known for the slightest little occurrence coming back into play many episodes later. Well the Thirdspace incident, as it shall forever be known , was a MAJOR occurrence that doesn't really get the Series recognition it should have.

I can't really look at Babylon 5 movies like standalone movies. They are not standalone movies. They are all meant to be standalone stories that are still connected to a larger whole . . . (Until JMS says otherwise, which he very well could given that we now have THE ROAD HOME, which could be an argument for a lot of ALT-Universe Theory with Babylon 5 . . . Just saying ). So yeah there might be some poor direction or wooden acting or say an idea that maybe should have been rethought, but we've got what we've got.

In terms of RIVER OF SOULS (1998) my thinking is thus. First of all, I was never a huge fan of the 'Soul' concept being a part of the show. That is a strike the film had going in. This may have even led me to say some harsh words about RIVER OF SOULS (1998) in the past, but after seeing SOUL HUNTER S1.2 so many times and RIVER OF SOULS (1998) multiple times it has grown on me. (I will say that I don't think I've ever had too harsh of words for it, but I know I like it even more now.) There are moments that don't work, but overall I find it very entertaining. Before watching RIVER OF SOULS (1998) I think it is a good idea to re-visit SOUL HUNTER S1.2. I think there is a comparable aura the film captures.

I can see someone who has never seen Babylon 5 seeing RIVER OF SOULS (1998) and having a poor opinion of it. I'll agree that if RIVER OF SOULS (1998) was the first thing I saw of the Babylon 5 Franchise I might not have thought much of it. BUT it surprises me when I hear people whom have seen the entire series and seen the atmosphere and humor of the series think it is terrible. I'll say it isn't the strongest thing in the series, but it is entertaining and it fits in. And I think Martin Sheen plays very comparable to what we know of Soul Hunters. Maybe there are expectations that Martin Sheen being Martin Sheen should have brought something different than he did, but he's a Soul Hunter. What we know of the Soul Hunter Race was established by Morgan Sheppard and John Snyder in the Season One Episode. I think Sheen fits right in with those two in terms of how Soul Hunters were established. Now if you had never seen how Soul Hunters were established then maybe Sheen seems terrible, but watch SOUL HUNTER S1.2 again and you might change your mind.

Having said this I don't rate these movies like regular movies. I rate them on a scale in terms of BABYLON 5 Movies. I rank them thusly - (He said as he stirred the pot.)

A CALL TO ARMS (1999) is an 9 out of 10 Babylon 5 Movie.
THIRDSPACE (1998) is a 8 out of 10 Babylon 5 Movie.
THE GATHERING (1993) is a 8 out of 10 Babylon 5 Movie.
THE ROAD HOME (2023) 7 out of 10 Babylon 5 Movie.
RIVER OF SOULS (1998) is a 7 out of 10 Babylon 5 Movie.
LEGEND OF THE RANGERS TO LIVE AND DIE IN STARLIGHT (2002) is a 6 out of 10 Babylon 5 Movie.

Oh and I almost forgot,

IN THE BEGINNING (1998) is a 20 out of 10 Babylon 5 Movie.

Please jump all over me for these ratings. I have many reasons in my reasonings for all of them.

 

[LateArrival]

Quick edit: Ah, I thought you were calling Thirdspace laughable, now I realise you meant River of Souls. mea culpa.

But even that has good things going for it. Martin Sheen and Ian McShane are good in everything they do. The first 10 minutes of the movie with the archeological dig hangs together pretty well. Richard Biggs puts in an impressive cameo. Tracy Scoggins shows that the she can play the lead, it was a shame she didn't get more opportunities.

Admittedly the holo stuff doesn't work at all and given it's meant to be humorous it ironically doesn't generate any laughter. And it is my least favourite of the movies and it has been a long time since I last watched it.

If something I like puts out a bad installment then I'm disappointed by it; I was disappointed with River of Souls, but given how good the vast majority of the rest of B5 is, I'm willing to cut them some slack.

Thought Thirdspace did have some humorous moments - Sheridan spinning off into the sunset, and guess he could have used Indy's refrigerator to shield himself from the nuke.


Was an interesting change that RoS was centered on Lochley than the other main characters. Speaking of which, what about The Lost Tales? Sheridan's story, Lochley's story, and (reading the script via B5Books: The Movies) Garibaldi's story.

 

[Springer]

Having said this I don't rate these movies like regular movies. I rate them on a scale in terms of BABYLON 5 Movies. I rank them thusly - (He said as he stirred the pot.)

A CALL TO ARMS (1999) is an 9 out of 10 Babylon 5 Movie.
THIRDSPACE (1998) is a 8 out of 10 Babylon 5 Movie.
THE GATHERING (1993) is a 8 out of 10 Babylon 5 Movie.
THE ROAD HOME (2023) 7 out of 10 Babylon 5 Movie.
RIVER OF SOULS (1998) is a 7 out of 10 Babylon 5 Movie.
LEGEND OF THE RANGERS TO LIVE AND DIE IN STARLIGHT (2002) is a 6 out of 10 Babylon 5 Movie.

Oh and I almost forgot,

IN THE BEGINNING (1998) is a 20 out of 10 Babylon 5 Movie.

Please jump all over me for these ratings. I have many reasons in my reasonings for all of them.

Well if we're going to rate them...

The Gathering – 9 out of 10. I've watched the special edition a few times lately and it has really gone up in my estimation!

Thirdspace - 8 out of 10 for reasons I mention above.

In the Beginning - 7.5 out of 10. I think it tries to do a bit too much and the coincidences are contrived (which I talk about elsewhere as being explainable by just saying Londo is making things up), I think it tries just a bit too hard (I don't like the musical bit near the end, for example).

The Road Home - 7 out of 10. Fun, worthwhile, though it has a non-canon feel to me.

The Lost Tales. 'Over Here', 6 out of 10, 'Over There' 8 out of 10. So I guess 7 out of 10 as an average. A shame it didn't have a larger budget so it could afford a few extras, B5 looked deserted!

A Call to Arms - I can't bear the music! And Dureena never grew on me. I do need to watch it again though, last time I watched some of it (think I was killing time waiting for something and didn't watch all of it) I was surprised that I wasn't as impressed with it as I had previously been, so I can't rate it fairly at the moment.

River of Souls - the logic of the souls possessing the holograms didn't work for me, nor did the love bat joke, and Ian McShane is wasted in this, he's barely in the second half of the film and criminally he doesn't get a scene with Martin Sheen. 6 out of 10 I guess but I need to watch again.

Legend of the Rangers - again, I need to rewatch as I can't really remember it so I can't rate it. The space 'fighting' puts me off!

What all this tells me is I really need to rewatch some of these movies again. I focus so much on the five seasons I often forget about the movies

 

[Lord Garth]

I gave The Gathering an 8/10. I remember feeling overwhelmed when I first watched it, taking in all the details at once, and typing of nine pages worth of notes. Then I watched it again after I finished the first season and wasn't in "taking it all in!" mode anymore, and I still liked it.

In the Beginning is a clear 10. No question, no contest.

Maybe I was too harsh on Thirdspace, but the fourth season was such a high that this felt like a thud. I'll be re-watching it soon.

Since I haven't seen the rest yet, I won't comment on those.

 

[Springer]

Since I haven't seen the rest yet, I won't comment on those.

Sorry! I forgot you hadn't seen some of these, I hope we haven't spoiled anything by talking about them.

 

[Lord Garth]

Sorry! I forgot you hadn't seen some of these, I hope we haven't spoiled anything by talking about them.

Not a problem. As soon as I see anything spoiler-ish, I stop reading and skim to a point where I think I'm safe.

It's why I waited until I finished the fourth season before I registered here. Now I'm in the "be careful!" zone instead of "avoid reading anything here at all costs!"

 

[LateArrival]

Legend of the Rangers had G'Kar in it, and his scenes alone make it worth watching.

As to the space 'fighting', no comment. But if memory serves, has the series gone forward it might have been tasked with finishing the Excalibur's mission.

 

[Looney]

I left THE LOST TALES (2007) off the list on purpose. I just have trouble wrapping my brain around putting it in comparison with the movies. It is not a movie. They are episodes intended to be mixed with future episodic installments. With some serious tweaking I believe the OVER THERE installment could have been part of a really good movie. The actual story itself is good and I think it is exactly as long as it needs to be. BUT if it were the B Plot to a movie I feel like it really could have worked well.

The OVER HERE installment is a whole other story...literally. While I do think it is a very good story, I don't love it as a Babylon 5 story. Love Lochley in it, but I also find it shocking JMS decided it was going to be the launching point for the LOST TALES Series. It is a good story, but it did not WOW me as the first LOST TALES story I saw. So glad OVER THERE was immediately after, which is something I really wish we had gotten more follow up.

 

[LateArrival]

I left THE LOST TALES (2007) off the list on purpose. I just have trouble wrapping my brain around putting it in comparison with the movies. It is not a movie. They are episodes intended to be mixed with future episodic installments. With some serious tweaking I believe the OVER THERE installment could have been part of a really good movie. The actual story itself is good and I think it is exactly as long as it needs to be. BUT if it were the B Plot to a movie I feel like it really could have worked well.

The OVER HERE installment is a whole other story...literally. While I do think it is a very good story, I don't love it as a Babylon 5 story. Love Lochley in it, but I also find it shocking JMS decided it was going to be the launching point for the LOST TALES Series. It is a good story, but it did not WOW me as the first LOST TALES story I saw. So glad OVER THERE was immediately after, which is something I really wish we had gotten more follow up.

What about the Garibaldi Story?

We only have it in script form, but was an interesting tale of Garibaldi on Mars. If memory serves, he was speaking via radio with one of the ?archeologists? throughout the segment, then when the entire underground city Goes Whoosh, he discovers the person he thought he was talking to had been dead for ?hours?. If I recall correctly, he was supposedly talking to one of the (grunt) Ancient Aliens who said they needed to vanish/be-gone so that their "children" (aka humanity) could make their own destiny, etc.