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EpDis: All Alone In The Night
- Thread starter vacantlook
- Start date
Jade Jaguar
Regular
Call me stingy with the A's, and you'd be right, but I only gave this fine ep a B, since JMS has done many even better. It has Ta'Lon, a surrealistic dream sequence, and more, that I do like a lot. I think my greatest dissapointment from this ep is that I expected Ta'Lon to become a regular character, seen often at Sheridan's side, and saving him more than once. I loved the idea of Sheridan with a Narn samurai bodyguard, which it promised, but the following eps didn't deliver.
Springer
Regular
Yeah, it would have been cool if Ta'Lon had actually done something as Sheridan's bodyguard, but that didn't come about until the third season anyway. I don't think any of us expected to see Ta'Lon again after this episode. I like how B5 develops characters from seemingly insignificant beginnings- just look at Corwin and Zack.
I like this episode, although the sets on the Streib's spaceship look extremely cheap, but nevermind. It had lots of action and mystery, and a revelation at the end. I'd probably rate it somewhere between C+ and B-, so being charitable I'll give it a B.
I still don't completely understand Sheridan's dream though, and I thought the explanation of it in Shadow Dancing seemed a bit rushed. Maybe its meant to remain vague, like most dreams usually are. One part of the dream that puzzles me is the part with Sheridan in the Psi Corps uniform. Now, in Shadow Dancing Ivanova reckoned that it was because they were working with Bester. But, they worked with Bester for what?- the entirety of two whole episodes, and even then Bester was working against the B5 crew in secret in Epiphanies (using Garibaldi). So to me that part of the dream sequence doesn't fit. Does anybody else have any other suggestions?
I like this episode, although the sets on the Streib's spaceship look extremely cheap, but nevermind. It had lots of action and mystery, and a revelation at the end. I'd probably rate it somewhere between C+ and B-, so being charitable I'll give it a B.
I still don't completely understand Sheridan's dream though, and I thought the explanation of it in Shadow Dancing seemed a bit rushed. Maybe its meant to remain vague, like most dreams usually are. One part of the dream that puzzles me is the part with Sheridan in the Psi Corps uniform. Now, in Shadow Dancing Ivanova reckoned that it was because they were working with Bester. But, they worked with Bester for what?- the entirety of two whole episodes, and even then Bester was working against the B5 crew in secret in Epiphanies (using Garibaldi). So to me that part of the dream sequence doesn't fit. Does anybody else have any other suggestions?
deaded
Regular
Well yeah, it's not a "Comming of Shadows," but there is lots of important stuff here. The Hague stuff is crucial and really a turning point. It changes the shape of everything that comes after it. I liked Ta'Lon but I felt that Sheridan's part was over acted and forced. I'm still going to give it an A for it's story and importance, but if I had to rate it from one to 110 I'd probably put it about 34th. But hey, this IS my favorite TV show of all time we're talking about, so there are a lot of 'A's to go around.
GKarsEye
Regular
This ep gets props for propelling various plot lines forward.
Delenn getting kicked off the council will be the act that finally molds her into the lone warrior/prophetess (a personal favorite and undervalued character arc). This will put her in the classic hero's position of being forced to adjust, adapt and become stronger than she was before.
Sheridan in the psi-cop uniform in the dream is fine with me- yes, they would work with Bester. Just because Bester was spying on them doesn't mean they still wouldn't have a brief alliance. If Sheridan was told in a dream that he was in conflict with Bester or the Psi-Corps then it would be meaningless- he expects that.
Delenn getting kicked off the council will be the act that finally molds her into the lone warrior/prophetess (a personal favorite and undervalued character arc). This will put her in the classic hero's position of being forced to adjust, adapt and become stronger than she was before.
Sheridan in the psi-cop uniform in the dream is fine with me- yes, they would work with Bester. Just because Bester was spying on them doesn't mean they still wouldn't have a brief alliance. If Sheridan was told in a dream that he was in conflict with Bester or the Psi-Corps then it would be meaningless- he expects that.
Shaal Mayan
Regular
C nothing special about this one .
KoshFan
Regular
I love the fact that Hague's running around this episode for no apparent reason, and then in the last five minutes of the show you finally realize why he's there... and why Sheridan is on B5 at all... and it's such a delightful twist. B5 didn't have many of those last-second left turns, and while I got used to them on Alias, it's a lovely device here.
This ep also underscores the connection between Sheridan and the Agamemnon.
This ep also underscores the connection between Sheridan and the Agamemnon.
GaribaldisHair
Regular
I actually prefer B5's approach to these last-second left turns. If you use them too often, the audience comes to expect them and they lose their power. If you use them sparingly, you have more chance of catching your audience off-guard ... which is presumably part of the reason they are there.
This is a good ep but not one of the top tier - probably falls between a B and a C, so, erring of the side of gernerosity, I voted B!
This is a good ep but not one of the top tier - probably falls between a B and a C, so, erring of the side of gernerosity, I voted B!
B5obsessive
Member
Really like the end scene on this one. C'mon, admit it, it's OK to be sad, how many of us mentally raised a glass and echoed Susan's "Wherever this goes, however this ends,we're with you"? I know I did. Love that bit, as a person who has a quirky tendency to live through events with the characters, it's a proud, sit-up-straight kinda moment. (Incredibly sad and proud of it, that's me. 
) And as the credits roll, you can practically hear the engine move up a gear.........
) And as the credits roll, you can practically hear the engine move up a gear.........
Chilli
High Treason Prevention Officer
Have to give it a B I think, just for Sheridan's "What could go wrong?" before heading out on a mission he was not supposed to head out on .. hello? You're on a TV show? .. *NEVER* say "what could go wrong"
Damn though .. even the episodes of Season 2 that I wouldn't count to my favorites just seem great in retrospective though. I've been forgetting why I devoted myself to B5 like I did lately.
.. *NEVER* say "what could go wrong" Damn though .. even the episodes of Season 2 that I wouldn't count to my favorites just seem great in retrospective though. I've been forgetting why I devoted myself to B5 like I did lately.
Estelyn
Regular
I too went "d'oh!" at the "What could go wrong" line - that was almost *too* obvious a clue! The abduction and fights with others on an alien ship seems a bit Trek-y, including the comment wondering if it was for their entertainment. I did like Sheridan's line: "The first obligation of a prisoner is to escape." That reminds me strongly of Tolkien's passionate argument for "escapist" literature in his essay "On Fairy-Stories".
The Delenn story arc is very interesting and important at this point, as is Lennier's loyalty to her. There's also the conflict with Neroon, that continues to escalate.
There's a very thoughtful moment near the end, where Sheridan asks, "Why am I still alive and he's not?" That is the classic dilemma facing survivors, an element of guilt that haunts them.
Kosh's repeated "always been here" lines add to the general feeling of mystery and building tension.
The Delenn story arc is very interesting and important at this point, as is Lennier's loyalty to her. There's also the conflict with Neroon, that continues to escalate.
There's a very thoughtful moment near the end, where Sheridan asks, "Why am I still alive and he's not?" That is the classic dilemma facing survivors, an element of guilt that haunts them.
Kosh's repeated "always been here" lines add to the general feeling of mystery and building tension.
Looney
Regular
Okay so I just watched it for the I don't know how many-ith time. I think it is an A episode that could have been A+ with a little more of everything.
So here is what I have to say about Sheridan in the Psi Cop uniform.
1.) His being in the Psi Cop uniform might have to do with how much you choose to believe Kosh was guiding the vision; a warning to be wary of the Corps.
2.) As we learn at the end of the episode Sheridan already suspects the Psi Corps are behind Clark, so his subconscious is visualizing that he is, by being a member of Earth Force, working for the Psi Corps.
There are my two explanations for the Psi Cop uniform.
So beyond that I feel the only thing lacking is not enough of everything. I agree that the ship interior looks cheap, but what can you do. I wish we had more Hague and that time seemed to be spaced out a little more. I mean that it seemed a little too rushed how quickly they found Sheridan and that it seemed his captivity was too brief. I also wish Ta'Lon had become a recurring character then, but how great is it that there is a huge story that explains why he disappears and later reappears. And everything else is great. :thumbsup:
So here is what I have to say about Sheridan in the Psi Cop uniform.
1.) His being in the Psi Cop uniform might have to do with how much you choose to believe Kosh was guiding the vision; a warning to be wary of the Corps.
2.) As we learn at the end of the episode Sheridan already suspects the Psi Corps are behind Clark, so his subconscious is visualizing that he is, by being a member of Earth Force, working for the Psi Corps.
There are my two explanations for the Psi Cop uniform.
So beyond that I feel the only thing lacking is not enough of everything. I agree that the ship interior looks cheap, but what can you do. I wish we had more Hague and that time seemed to be spaced out a little more. I mean that it seemed a little too rushed how quickly they found Sheridan and that it seemed his captivity was too brief. I also wish Ta'Lon had become a recurring character then, but how great is it that there is a huge story that explains why he disappears and later reappears. And everything else is great. :thumbsup:
Lennier's Tears
Regular
I recently watched all of Star Trek Enterprise and realized that "oh no, the captain has been kidnapped by aliens!" is a fairly common theme on that show Not on B5, though! So I'm OK with that storyline here.
For an episode that seems like it's mostly a one-off non-arc story, there is actually a LOT of important main storyline stuff happening. One of my favorite things about Babylon 5 is that there's almost ALWAYS some main storyline stuff happening, but there's still also room for character stuff, and for some levity instead of constant tension, which can get a bit much for me.
The General Hague stuff is pretty huge, but I tend to forget just HOW huge it would be on first watch. Suddenly everything changes! I mean, sure, there's been a LOT of background noise pointing in this sort of direction, but I'm sure I didn't really pick up on it the first time I watched.
The Minbari stuff is huge too. Those other Minbari are such assholes to Delenn. "An affront to the purity of our race." Yikes. I also find it's easy to forget just how big a sacrifice she is making for a cause seemingly no one else believes in at this point. Almost everyone on her entire planet is turning their back on them. Not Lennier, though! Ah, good faithful season 1-4 Lennier "Were you wak, I will walk. I will not leave you while you're still alive." Aww.
I'm very interested to know how Neroon came to be on the Grey Council in Delenn's place. Who voted for this, and why?? The three Warrior Caste members of the council, presumably. But who else? Religious Caste seems unlikely, because that's "their" seat the're giving up. Worker Caste? But, why? It later becomes a plot point that no one ever listens to the Worker Caste anyway, were they manipulated into this?
My random comments:
- Oh no, someone had to say "What could go wrong?" Do people actually ever say that in real life, when they're NOT being sarcastic?
- Lieutenant Ramirez, wearing such an obvious red shirt
- Everyone is very sad about Ramirez dying, because he got some screen time at the start of the episode, but what about those other Star Fury pilots who are never mentioned?
- I love how Lennier says "Until later, SATAI Delenn" when she goes into the council meeting.
- I am kind of surprised Delenn doesn't recognize Neroon's voice, but then I guess they don't know each other that well, whereas I have heard his voice approximately 12 million times rewatching B5
- LOL at Delenn diplomatically lying about the Grey Council's wisdom after she gets out of their meeting.
- I love that it's Delenn who saves the day/Sheridan's life, not for the last time.
- Had to LOL at General Hague helping himself to some booze in Sheridan's quarters.
Not on B5, though! So I'm OK with that storyline here.For an episode that seems like it's mostly a one-off non-arc story, there is actually a LOT of important main storyline stuff happening. One of my favorite things about Babylon 5 is that there's almost ALWAYS some main storyline stuff happening, but there's still also room for character stuff, and for some levity instead of constant tension, which can get a bit much for me.
The General Hague stuff is pretty huge, but I tend to forget just HOW huge it would be on first watch. Suddenly everything changes! I mean, sure, there's been a LOT of background noise pointing in this sort of direction, but I'm sure I didn't really pick up on it the first time I watched.
The Minbari stuff is huge too. Those other Minbari are such assholes to Delenn. "An affront to the purity of our race." Yikes. I also find it's easy to forget just how big a sacrifice she is making for a cause seemingly no one else believes in at this point. Almost everyone on her entire planet is turning their back on them. Not Lennier, though! Ah, good faithful season 1-4 Lennier
"Were you wak, I will walk. I will not leave you while you're still alive." Aww.I'm very interested to know how Neroon came to be on the Grey Council in Delenn's place. Who voted for this, and why?? The three Warrior Caste members of the council, presumably. But who else? Religious Caste seems unlikely, because that's "their" seat the're giving up. Worker Caste? But, why? It later becomes a plot point that no one ever listens to the Worker Caste anyway, were they manipulated into this?
My random comments:
- Oh no, someone had to say "What could go wrong?" Do people actually ever say that in real life, when they're NOT being sarcastic?
- Lieutenant Ramirez, wearing such an obvious red shirt
- Everyone is very sad about Ramirez dying, because he got some screen time at the start of the episode, but what about those other Star Fury pilots who are never mentioned?
- I love how Lennier says "Until later, SATAI Delenn" when she goes into the council meeting.
- I am kind of surprised Delenn doesn't recognize Neroon's voice, but then I guess they don't know each other that well, whereas I have heard his voice approximately 12 million times rewatching B5
- LOL at Delenn diplomatically lying about the Grey Council's wisdom after she gets out of their meeting.
- I love that it's Delenn who saves the day/Sheridan's life, not for the last time.
- Had to LOL at General Hague helping himself to some booze in Sheridan's quarters.
Looney
Regular
I recently watched all of Star Trek Enterprise and realized that "oh no, the captain has been kidnapped by aliens!" is a fairly common theme on that show
For an episode that seems like it's mostly a one-off non-arc story, there is actually a LOT of important main storyline stuff happening. One of my favorite things about Babylon 5 is that there's almost ALWAYS some main storyline stuff happening, but there's still also room for character stuff, and for some levity instead of constant tension, which can get a bit much for me.
The General Hague stuff is pretty huge, but I tend to forget just HOW huge it would be on first watch. Suddenly everything changes! I mean, sure, there's been a LOT of background noise pointing in this sort of direction, but I'm sure I didn't really pick up on it the first time I watched.
The Minbari stuff is huge too. Those other Minbari are such assholes to Delenn. "An affront to the purity of our race." Yikes. I also find it's easy to forget just how big a sacrifice she is making for a cause seemingly no one else believes in at this point. Almost everyone on her entire planet is turning their back on them. Not Lennier, though! Ah, good faithful season 1-4 Lennier
I'm very interested to know how Neroon came to be on the Grey Council in Delenn's place. Who voted for this, and why?? The three Warrior Caste members of the council, presumably. But who else? Religious Caste seems unlikely, because that's "their" seat the're giving up. Worker Caste? But, why? It later becomes a plot point that no one ever listens to the Worker Caste anyway, were they manipulated into this?
My random comments:
- Oh no, someone had to say "What could go wrong?" Do people actually ever say that in real life, when they're NOT being sarcastic?
- Lieutenant Ramirez, wearing such an obvious red shirt
- Everyone is very sad about Ramirez dying, because he got some screen time at the start of the episode, but what about those other Star Fury pilots who are never mentioned?
- I love how Lennier says "Until later, SATAI Delenn" when she goes into the council meeting.
- I am kind of surprised Delenn doesn't recognize Neroon's voice, but then I guess they don't know each other that well, whereas I have heard his voice approximately 12 million times rewatching B5
- LOL at Delenn diplomatically lying about the Grey Council's wisdom after she gets out of their meeting.
- I love that it's Delenn who saves the day/Sheridan's life, not for the last time.
- Had to LOL at General Hague helping himself to some booze in Sheridan's quarters.
Yes all great stuff. I agree that it would be interesting to know the politics behind Neroon ending up on the council; especially if it is due to the fact that Delenn has enemies who wanted someone who would far to her opposite.
And yes Red Shirt Ramirez might be a little too obvious. I guess the real tragedy isn't just dying. It is making the effort to report what happened before dying that counts.
