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BSG fansite looses the plot... (SPOILERS for S2 !)


O: Ronald D. Moore, Executive Producer, Battlestar Galactica

As you may know, Colonial Fleets has long been a supporter of the revival of the original Battlestar Galactica. Despite this, we have had fans from your version of our beloved story who have come in, singing the praises of your show, even at the expense of the original. We have embraced these fans, in the hopes that there might be good communication, discussion, and esprit de corps between them.

Battlestar Galactica, to us, has always represented a story that could be viewed by entire families. Yes, the story deals with a very dark subject (the annihilation of the human race across the stars, and the subsequent horrors and strife that follow), but the show also was a tale of hope and strength in the face of great adversity. It was a story of rising above the challenges the rag tag fleet had to face as a result of being exiled to the stars. And, the show was one of a family united against these processes that no despair could rend asunder.

Your version of this tale has twisted so many of the concepts of Battlestar Galactica into something that is barely recognizable by its fanbase. Constant dysfunction, a military that is far beyond any discipline we acknowledge, and stories far darker than need to be told in the realm of Battlestar Galactica.

Many segments of your show have been extremely controversial. Many TOS fans have spoken out against such events. In the miniseries, you depicted the murder of an infant in what you perceived to be an effort to show just how EVIL the Cylon race is supposed to be. We feel this was nothing more than "shock jock" material. In your efforts to evoke a sense of "The Cylons will PAY!" among your intended fanbase, you have instead evoked a response of "does RDM, et al, have no decency!?"

We have tolerated fans of your show giving lavish praise to your show, and quite at our own sufferance.

However, your recent episode "Pegasus-Part One" has sparked more than just a controversy among the Battlestar Galactica fanbase. It has evoked such a negative emotional response among those who took an hour out of their lives to see what you had done with a classic, staple tale of Galactica, that we can no longer abide any continued support from this site for your show. Many families within our Galactica communities have suffered even as far as episodes of Post Traumatic Stress when witnessing the sickening scene you decided to air (regardless of how much "restraint" you'd shown). This has caused a sense of distress, outrage, and indignation among these good and decent people. AND, you also seem to have managed to drive away a segment of your own fanbase. For what? For the sake of shock?! The scene you filmed and aired doesn't even qualify as good drama. And the warning/advisory that was posted before that segment was insufficient to prepare potentially sensitive viewers for what they were about to witness.

Mr. Moore, your show has had many events which have driven us away from its potential enjoyment, but the negatives have far outweighed the positives, and in this case, the negatives have finally come to a head that cannot be ignored.

Yes, there are people still praising your show for its "gritty realism". Its "darker take". Its "grand reinvention of the genre". We have seen none of what you claim you've set out to do.

Yes, you may have written off the fanbase of the original series. Yes, you may have spit and defecated all over a property we have long treasured for nearly thirty years. For all your airs, all you have served to do is destroy the name of something that was once considered a "family friendly" show.

Do not think for an instant that what we want from a revival for Battlestar Galactica is the exact same elements that existed in 1978. Yes, we would like to see an updated version of Battlestar Galactica. Perhaps a little darker, and more mature. But what you have given in your version of the show has pushed the boundaries of decency.

We, the staff, therefore withdraw any support that Colonial Fleets may have given your show.

We will still welcome fans of the new show to Colonial Fleets, but they will have to understand that your version of Battlestar Galactica is no longer a subject we choose to discuss here.

Please understand, Mr.Moore that we do not hold the flaws of the show against you, as a person. Not at all. But, as a professional, we cannot support your production. Our criticisms of your show are stictly at the professional level...not personally toward you.
The Staff of Colonial Fleets

Basically, the show almost depicted a rape (attempted, in which the assailant was then killed). It was shocking in a dramatic fashion, but fitted the nature of the show. You see far worse things most nights on ITV these days on the Bill. Now these guys think that it was a sick and expolitative thing to do, just to raise the bar of the show.

With happenings in Iraq and Cuba I thought this scene and the dark ideas depicted by the show raised some timely issues. It also raised some interesting sci-fi questions about the civil rights of humanoid AI (somthing that concerns me on a daily basis) and non-human enemies.

What do those who have seen this episode think about this? It seems to me that these are just old school fans looking for a new excuse to diss the new show, as it challenges them in ways they'd rather not be challenged...

(edited as usual for my typos...)
Re: BSG fansite looses the plot... (SPOILERS for S

First let me say two things ...

1. I haven't seen this epsiode yet - still waiting for S2 in the UK

2. I love the new BSG - much more than the old one.

However, I have a great deal of sympathy with Colonial Fleets' point of view on this.

The original BSG is a show that they love and continue to support 30 years after broadcast. The love and support it enought to build a website and forum and still talk about it. Much as I guess there will be people (some of whom will be right here on this board right now) talking about B5 in another 20+ years time.

In their eyes, they see the show that they love now completely blown out of the water, overshadowed and twisted beyond recognition by the "re-imagining" taking place in the new show. And, not surprisingly, they don't like it and think that it impinges on the show that they love.

I watched BSG as a 11/12 year old, and loved it ... for the very reasons that, as an adult, I now find it cheesy and unintentionally funny in places. I am not geeky about it, but I do still harbour some fuzzy feelings for the show - after all, to a barely pubescent boy, space battles and Jane Seymour at her most gorgeous were reason enough to watch the show!

Now imagine, for a second, that someone comes in in 20 years time and does a "re-imagining" of Babylon 5 that is completely different in style, tone and feel to the show that we all love, revere, and discuss until we are blue in the face. How would we all feel about that? I don't know, frankly, but I would imagine that quite a few would feel exactly the same way as Colonial Fleets feel about the new BSG.

I go back to something I have said on these boards on a number of occasions. I love the new BSG. I think it is a fantastic show with some really strong dramatic possibilities. However, I also believe that tying it to the BSG name was a mistake for three reasons.

1. It always risked this sort of backlash from fans of the original show, who may well have become fans of it otherwise. Some of their comments are over the top, but I can see where they are coming from.

2. There will be people out there who have never checked out the show because they hated the original, and aren't interested in e remake but who, again, may have loved it and become fans of it without that.

3. (and most important) It doesn't need to give itself the "remake of a 20 year old show" tag. With some subtle changes to the underlying premise, the new BSG is more than good enough to have stood out on its own as a new show, and would have gained even greater kudos from being such.

A remake was unnecessary and, given the huge difference in style between the two shows, smacks of marketing and laziness in the ideas department.
Re: BSG fansite looses the plot... (SPOILERS for S

Yeah, they've dipped a bit in comparison, but the seasonal variation is an issue


"Scattered" - 2.6
"Valley of Darkness" - 2.0
"Fragged" - 2.0
"Resistance" - 1.9
"The Farm" - 2.0
"Home, Part 1" - 2.1
"Home, Part 2" - 2.1
"Final Cut" - 2.0
"Flight of the Phoenix" - 1.9
"Pegasus" - 2.0

Lead-in series Stargate SG-1 and Sta

Ratings wise its in the top few cable shows (as far as I know, and I know zip about US TV, Lesley Neilsen what??_

I would say that there was much more to the scene tan just shock value though (although the show has that in spades when it wants to). I don;t think they need to include the topic just to get the ratings up...

Rape is obviously a prickly issue that should be handled sensitivley, I'm interested to see if folks here found this expolitative or not...
Re: BSG fansite looses the plot... (SPOILERS for S

What time is BSG shown? That really would be the key issue to me. Although in this day of technology the airing time of a show won't stop a kid from seeing it if he/she wants to badly enough, I'd hate to think of some young kid stumbling upon an episode of that at, say, 2 p.m. during a Friday Sci-Fi marathon.
Re: BSG fansite looses the plot... (SPOILERS for S

Rape is obviously a prickly issue that should be handled sensitivley, I'm interested to see if folks here found this expolitative or not...

I didn't. It's a sad fact that rape of prisoners happens, past, present and future. It was also less graphic, imo, than the usual sex scenes between Six and Baltar. If there hadn't been a very brief shot of the rapist unbuckling his belt that made it absolutely unmistakably rape.

Re: BSG fansite looses the plot... (SPOILERS for S

Hyp, it airs at 10pm-11pm on Friday nights.

It wasn't gratuitous at all. It explained what the Six clone had gone through, and just how savage Caine's crew was, as well as making an Abu Grhaib comparison/statement. I think there's more to come on that front, what with the closing scenes. The guy stood behind Boomer, went for his belt, and then Helo (or was it the Chief) attacked him. That was it. Suggestion, nothing more. The scene with Apollo in the towel was far more provocative, IMHO.

Today's world is different, so of course the show is going to be different. I too enjoyed the show as a little squirt, but, it really was an awfully cheesy show, looking back on it. Two attempts at it failed back them, this version is flying high, and some elements are being played out that never had a chance to be realized in the original and spin off. 20 years from now, Babylon 5 being remade and darker, I don't think would neccessarily offend me, although Babylon 5 had the opporunity to run it's course, BSG only just got out of the gate.
That is an interesting reaction to say the least. I'd warn you to take it with a grain of salt considering the source.

That site is a self-admitted fansite for the ORIGINAL series. They probably have been reporting and supporting the new series "at their own sufferance" the entire time. It doesn't read like they ever fully embraced the new version.

That being said, I admit that scene was pretty intense. However, I can't say it was wrong or out of character for the show. I don't believe for a second that it was just done to raise the bar on the shows "grittiness." I think the episode Pegasus was done to show a group of humans who survived who have taken the more hardline of survival than the BSG fleet which is trying to "rebuild" their civilization.

I don't know, I just thought it was a pretty realistic scene, and it didn't disturb me the way it did them. I think most of their anger towards the scene comes from comparing this version of BSG to the original, which was a more "fun and adventerous" series...about the end of the human race in the colonies. Two totally different series with different intentions and to have them try to compare the two on this basis just doesn't make sense.
I'm a fan of "A Clockwork Orange", whose images of violence were FAR more shocking for the time that movie came out.

My only thought is: haven't there been BSG "marathon" sessions on the Sci-Fi channel already? Where they play their reruns in the daytime?

Keep the show out of the time slots likely to be watched by the kiddies and it's as good as you can do in this day and age.

And BSG is just the kind of show to address the harder, darker issues (like that of prisoner abuse/rape) from what I've heard. I'll have to rent it some day, when the "long wait period" is a bit better. 10-11 pm airing time would explain why I've always missed it. :eek:

Stupid 5 a.m. wake up time, stupid early lecture. :mad:
LOL, that's why I typically record it and watch Saturday morning. If I'm still awake at 11pm (even on Friday night) then I've probably had too much beer to be able to properly follow a show like BSG.
I don't know, I just thought it was a pretty realistic scene, and it didn't disturb me the way it did them. I think most of their anger towards the scene comes from comparing this version of BSG to the original, which was a more "fun and adventerous" series...about the end of the human race in the colonies. Two totally different series with different intentions and to have them try to compare the two on this basis just doesn't make sense.
I agree. I'll admit my eyebrows raised when I saw the guy unbuckling his belt, but when you consider the mentality of the crew of the Pegasus, and what they did to the Six clone, it makes sense. It also paints Chief and Helo as heroes for saving the supposed "enemy" from the trauma of a rape at the hands of men who've basically left civilization behind.

I remember the original "Pegasus" episode. Lloyd Bridges played the commander of the Pegasus back then. He wanted to take the Pegasus and the Galactica into an all-out offensive against the superior Cylon forces -- essentially a suicide mission. He wasn't thinking of the civilians in the fleet, only revenge. In that sense, the new episode paralleled the old pretty closely. Michelle Forbes' character is much the same, I think -- only she has a pathological streak in her. The loss of her fleet, her home, and much of her people has probably driven her a little crazy, and she's not seeing things very clearly.

I think Moore took the whole "Lord of the Flies" mentality and applied it here. The Pegasus crew have been out in the wilderness on their own, reverting back to lawlessness (at least as far as their treatment of prisoners and tactics goes). They have a singular leader who doesn't tolerate dissent. Galactica leads those who are still clinging to civilized behavior.

I had no problem with the episode. The folks at Colonial Fleets have just been itching for an excuse to do this, and they think they now have one. Whatever. I can see their point, but I think the new BSG takes a much more realistic approach to the situation the humans find themselves in. The old BSG just kind of glossed over the fact that a near-extinction had taken place, and was much more about the theatrics of good vs. evil. It's a good fantasy to hang onto, and I don't fault the CF folks for embracing it all these years, but there is no mistaking that the new BSG is shaping up to be one of the greatest sci-fi classic series of all time, and the old series will end up in its shadow.
Re: BSG fansite looses the plot... (SPOILERS for S

My spur of the moment reaction to this little diatribe: Cry more, you fucking morons. Sorry, the old, nasty MMORPG raid-leader coming out. :)

I also think CF was just itching to find a reason to denounce this iteration of BSG. I do not know how they missed the clues over a season and a half that this show is more adult and more serious than the older BSG, and more so than most sci fi is wont to be. I don't know what BSG is rated, but I'm pretty willing to bet it's MA. That combined with that warning before the attempted rape segment should have told anyone with the least sense that what they were about to see might actually, i dunno, DISTURB them. I even gave a slight pause when I saw that warning come up, but decided to watch anyway. That scene freaked me out, but guess what? It didn't surprise me, because I read and understood what that WARNING might mean. What did they want, a second screen to come up that read "No, we're serious, what you're about to see may seriously disturb you. Get the kids out, and leave if you don't have adult sensitivities."

I don't think I'm alone when I say I'm glad there is a serious, well-written sci-fi show on TV again.
Re: BSG fansite looses the plot... (SPOILERS for S

I was actually kind of offended with the way the site cried foul and accused RDM of being some evil sub-human man beast, dragging a serious topic like rape into the equation when all they really did not like was the way he had changed their favourite TV show...

There's no indignation like rightous indignation...

The other thing that miffed me off with it is that the story is only half told, yet they are already proclaiming it to be sick and wrong. Gotta love watching those knees jerk...
Re: BSG fansite looses the plot... (SPOILERS for S

The new one has now had more episodes aired than the original, no? I believe the original only had 20 episodes, this one has now aired 23
Re: BSG fansite looses the plot... (SPOILERS for S

That scene was absolutly necessary to the episode, and was not overly graphic. It was no mroe explicit than some of the sex scenes with 6/Baltar, and no more violent than your average battle scene. It's just that it connects with the view on a deeper, moral level, about a very serious issue.

It was one hell of a secne and it had a very powerful impact. You can't tiptoe around the subject of the Pegasus crew abusing/raping/beating prisoners and make the same on the viewer. Really, we all knew beforehand that this sort of behavior was going on by the Pegasus crew, but how much did that really sink in and hit us until we saw it?

Remember Starbuck's "interrogation" of PRGuy Cylon? That had a big impact at the time because of the brutality.

One of the main things I like about the new BSG is the same thing I liked about B5. The characters are real, with real problems and real flaws. Things don't always have a happy ending, and nothign gets sugar coated. It's scifi that makes you think, and not about the science, but about the humanity and the morality.
I didn't particularly care for the old show, and if the new one had been a faithful recreation of it, I wouldn't have watched it. That said, I understand why the fans of the old show are angry. Many of them watched the show as kids; the new show is totally inappropriate for children.
I love the new BSG period. Love it. But I do feel they are constantly trying to up the shock stakes.

Season one was cool, and didn't have to be too over the top. A struggle over water, political intrigue, court room drama -- they were all good.

Pegagus was there five minutes before the ships were attacking each other, which felt a bit too fast for my liking.
Re: BSG fansite looses the plot... (SPOILERS for S

:D :D I absolutely LOVE the new BSG! In my opinion, it is just the coolest sci-fi <u>currently</u> being produced for television. The writing is consistently good, as are the effects, and the performances are just excellent. :cool:

The new BSG has a high "awe" factor with me...I find that I don't do anything else, not even breathe, from the opening music until the final credits roll. :D It's just that good!

I was just a kid when the original series aired, and except for the costume designer's penchant for capes....I did like it. I've even watched it since and found I still liked it, but I've never made the mistake of trying to compare the two. I don't see the point of doing that, they are simply not the same show. :)