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Better Villian: Cartagia or Morden?


Cartagia is more likely to give me nightmares. He's more like Jason or Leatherface: just nasty and horrid.

However, Morden is scarier in the sense that he's more "real." He was actually kind of sane, intelligent, and a nice guy (if you're on his side). He didn't kill because he "got bored" or just for the pleasure of it. He actually believed in what he was doing, and that's pretty awful.

"You do not make history. You can only hope to survive it."
I believe Morden was the worst of the two. He had much more power than Catagia did. If he had wanted to, he could have had Centauri Prime destroyed. So that would have made him pretty intemidating.

Excellent thread topic, BTW! I agree with the majority here: Morden.

1) He had real power. Or at least he had "associates" with real power. Cartagia was just a pawn. Morden was more a knight in the shadow's chess game.

2) Morden had the subtlety. Have you ever noticed that the guy who screams and throws himself about the place is not usually the real problem? It’s the quiet guy behind him, glaring at you, making entries in his little book that gets you in trouble every time!

Morden had the menace, I’d say.

Now, Morden versus Londo is another story. Londo never believed in what he was doing, like Morden did. He just got so sick of life he stopped caring about anything other than his own personal power base. Until it was too late to escape the trap he had essentially set for himself.

"I do not believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense,
reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use."-- Galileo

"I think I speak for Mr. Bloom and myself when I say: you are the only director in the World who can do justice to 'Springtime For Hitler' " - Zero Mostel, The Producers
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR> He didn't kill because he "got bored" or just for the pleasure of it. He actually believed in what he was doing, and that's pretty awful. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Actually, if you read the Book (Shadow Within) that deals with Morden and the Icarus' trip to Z'Ha'Dum, you discover that he Didn't necessarily Believe in what he was doing.
The Shadows Bought Morden's allegience by offering him a reward.
A very Personal and Selfish reward.
Something Morden wanted so much that he didn't care if Billions of innocent people had to die to get it for him.
The extent of Morden's damnation is measured by the fact that the Shadows didn't even promise that they Could do what Morden wanted.
Just that they would TRY to do it if he worked for them.

In that respect, Morden has to rate as the Most Evil character in the series.

The 3 most common elements in the Universe:
Hydrogen, Greed, Stupidity!
I haven't read the book, so I'll have to take bakana's word for it. However, just because Morden took the Shadows' offer, doesn't mean he didn't come to believe it. Humans, like all animals, have their thoughts directed by their actions as much as vice versa. If he spent a couple of years listening to, preaching, and acting out the Shadows' philosophy, there is a good chance he did come to believe it. He sure seemed pretty convincing when he told Sheridan about it in Z'ha'Dum.

Even if he didn't believe in that stuff, he still had some motivation (whatever it was in the book as bakana described).

In that sense, Morden is more like a Hitler or Osama Bin Laden, wereas Cartagia is more like a Caligula.

"You do not make history. You can only hope to survive it."
Yes yes yes Morden why?
Cartagia only wanted his world destroyed while Morden was willing to plunge the whole galaxy into war and destruction....

"When it is time, come to this place, call our name, we will be here" -Walkers of Sigma957
I suppose I can go ahead and answer my own question, although I'm not really sure which one is the better villian. Let me compare the two first.

He was simply insane, but he really only threatened one planet, Centauri Prime. Had his story line not been so condensed into just a few episodes, we may have seen much more of his craziness. He was just simply mad.

He played it calm and cool, and manipulated others, mostly Londo, into doing the bidding of his 'associates'. He played the game a little smarter and didn't let his plans fully known like Cartagia. He had much more strategy in what he was doing, and he threatened practically the whole galaxy, courtesy of the Shadows.

My choice: Morden.

"I welcome you and present this place to you as a gift. I am called Valen, and we have much work ahead of us."
-Valen, War Without End Pt.2

Simply because he ALWAYS had that 'Cheshire Cat' looking grin.

'I don't believe in the no-win scenario' - JTK
I have to say Morden is the one who would scare me most over the long haul. He sold his soul to the devil (Shadows) and cared nothing for anyone.

Cartagia was mad, but he could be manipulated with care, as Londo did for a while. He wasn't evil as Morden was, he had just lost touch with reality. Not that I would want to get on the wrong side of him

I always seem to be diagonally parked in a parallel universe.
Ok, everyone.

Who do you think the better villian is:

Cartagia or Morden?

My opinion later...I gotta get to work!

"I welcome you and present this place to you as a gift. I am called Valen, and we have much work ahead of us."
-Valen, War Without End Pt.2
i dont think they are are any villains in b5 just a shade of grgey allthough cartagia was mad and morden thought what he was doing was kinda right ... i guess in some way he was right

"Your patience is also a weapon, when used properly. We will arrive when we arrive and we will have the weapons we have. You can not win this war through force, you must .. understand your way out of this. Sheridan knows. What remains to be seen is whether he knows that he knows."
-- Lorien to Ivanova in Babylon 5:"Into the Fire"

------------------------visit my website - http://www.babylonfive.net
Morden... He was very clever up until the end.

A proud member of the Wind Swords.
"War is life and death is the only true peace."
Morden's the man!

Cartagia was a lot of fun - totally batshit crazy, but I feel that his character was sacrificed in the "Season 4 squash" when JMS didn't think B5 would be renewed for a 5th season. Cartagia only appears in a handful of episodes. I think if he had a little more time and didn't have to be killed off after five episodes, he would've been fleshed out a little better.

"Draal gave Zathras list of things not to say.
This was one. No.... *tsk tsk*
No. Not good.
Not supposed to mention... "one", or... THE one.
You never heard that."
Cartagia not evil? This was a guy who had G'Kar tortured for fun! Yes, he was a mad as a meataxe, but he was also evil.

I have to agree with most everyone so far.

Cartagia was loony toons. Granted he was the emperor, so he had the resources of the Centauri Republic (Empire) to be crazy with -- but he was nuts. It's also true that Londo was sometimes able to gently steer his insanity in a general direction.

Morden, however, was very rational about the evil he was doing. Once Londo finally decided to break his association with Londo, Morden was very easily able to move his connection to Refa. We've also seen how deep Morden's talons were into Earth's government.

Morden, compared to Cartagia, is more evil and more dangerous.

"What's up, Drakh?"

Michael Garibaldi
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Tobias:
President Clark. But then its probably just
I think I have to agree with Tobias on this one. But of course that wasn't the question, was it?

If I have to choose between Morden and Cartagia, I would choose Cartagia, even though he is obviously mentally deranged. While Morden was definitely evil, after all he agreed to serve the Shadows, he was just doing their bidding and was presumably under their control.

"What do you want you moon-faced assassin of joy?" - Ambassador Londo Mollari, Born to the Purple
Morden, easily. I'll take the smile on the face-polite to everyone villain over the just plain wacko villain anyday

We're all born as molecules in the hearts of a billion stars, molecules that do not understand politics, policies and differences. In a billion years we, foolish molecules forget who we are and where we came from. Desperate acts of ego. We give ourselves names, fight over lines on maps. And pretend our light is better than everyone else's. The flame reminds us of the piece of those stars that live inside us. A spark that tells us: you should know better. The flame also reminds us that life is precious, as each flame is unique. When it goes out, it's gone forever. And there will never be another quite like it