BD adult survivors question (SPOILER: season 1)

[CelleDuSoleil]

In "Things Left Unsaid I", Brother Clarence said that no virus kills 100% of the population and that there would always be those who are immune, and that's who the Brothers of the Apocalypse are: adult survivors who are immune. Does that mean that there are two kinds of immunity? One where an immune individual can still be a carrier of the virus and another where the immune individual cannot be a carrier?

Either way, an immune person would be an incredible asset -- especially for Valhalla Sector. So why isn't VS all over the Brothers? Do they not know about them? But we know that Lee Chen and Ezekiel know about them. Sooooo, either they haven't told VS and the true nature of the Brothers remains a secret of the faction of VS that Devon, Ezekiel and Lee belong to, or the Brothers don't have a natural immunity. The former begs the question: why aren't Devon and Company all over them? The latter contradicts what Brother Clarence said. So what gives?

And while I'm at it, are those immune to the BD also immune to the BD2?

 

[mokulen]

My head starts hurting real bad if i try to reason out that there are no competing groups, that there is only one united group doing all these seemingly contradictory things - so im going with the factions idea - for now. /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif I'm guessing then that when the peeps in the car followed Elizabeth and she lead them to the commune, it was their first time there. If they posed such a danger why not kill/ capture the Brothers beforehand? They seem pretty unconscionable - they're the ones that altered and/ or spread the disease again (by accident? on purpose?) - or is that a third group? /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif


Brother Clarence said the virus had mutated somehow so if they're not immune to the new traits (small pox, measles, etc. ) i guessing they would likely be in danger of the new strain. /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif Or maybe they can be vaccinated against these new traits - if they havnt been already ( i have no clue what i was vaccinated against as a child. ) So why arn't Devon & Co all over them? By that do you mean protecting them? Studying them? Perhaps at the moment they can only afford one operative (Ezekial) to keep an eye over them. Maybe they're small in numbers, can only afford to sneak away one 'copter at night, are restrained at the moment in the sorts of actions they can take. Brother Clarence didn't seem at all startled to hear the name VS - he doesnt associate the group w/ the return of the BD. Maybe he checks in ever so often via Millhaven making it unnecessary that they keep a blancket watch over the Brothers?

 

[CelleDuSoleil]

Re: BD adult survivors question (SPOILER: season 1

So why arn't Devon & Co all over them? By that do you mean protecting them? Studying them?

Both. Devon & Co would mostly definely want to study them and protect them -- from VS most of all. What you say about Ezekiel makes sense. And the more I think about it, so does Lee's not telling TM about the Brothers.

Here's how I picture it:
- Devon & Co. are working on a vaccine for the BD
- the fear of the BD is the only thing keeping VS in check (think Quantrell and his cronies going around in biohazard suits)
- Devon & Co. don't want VS to have the power to go out in the world in full force, so they keep the search for the vaccine a secret from VS (like Ezekiel said in "Tripwire")

As the Brothers are part of the vaccine research, Devon & Co. are trying to keep VS from knowing about them. That being the case, the last thing Devon & Co. want to happen is for the Brothers to become all chummy with TM whom VS is doubtlessly watching like a hawk. Which is why Lee gave the Do Nothing order to the Brothers and took the page from Simon's journal, so the Brothers would not go looking for TM and vice versa.

That being said, we can only speculate about Devon's motives. Is he keeping the vaccine research away from VS because he wants to save the world from them or because he wants to be the power in VS? The hand that holds the vaccine will most definitely be the hand that rules the world.

 

[Lyta]

Re: BD adult survivors question (SPOILER: season 1

Does that mean that there are two kinds of immunity? One where an immune individual can still be a carrier of the virus and another where the immune individual cannot be a carrier?

Wow, great question! I don't really know enough about diseases but I guess there would have to be both since we have the brothers (who are immune and not carriers) and Meaghan (who is immune and a carrier). Unless, Meaghan really isn't the carrier they thought she is? Wouldn't that suck? /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif

I can only assume that VS didn't know about the Brothers but now that they followed Elizabeth there, they may know now. Did the VS guys see the Brothers revealed? I know one VS guy got away ...

Anyway, Mokulen and Celle's speculation here is pretty much on par with my own ideas. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[grendel]

There are 2 possibilities(at least) regarding the BotA. They may as implied have been infected, fought off the infection and would now be a source of antibodies,which could provide a temporary passive immunity to the denizens of VS and Devon&Co. But this should also be the case with all the (former)children alive at the time of the BD,they all got a massive "vaccination" as the adults around them died. Or they(BotA) may not be infectable at all due to the lack of the virus receptor site on their tissue. This would make them a scientific curiosity, but not particularly useful. I had expected them to turn out to be eunuchs and never having gone through puberty not be vulnerable.
Then we have Meghan, whose existence implies that it is not the infection itself that is lethal .Weapons need delivery systems?
What I find odd is that either known survivor group cares at all about the BD, it should have gone extinct 3 days after the death of the last adult(Firewall)....Unless there is a third player in the mix?

 

[CelleDuSoleil]

Re: BD adult survivors question (SPOILER: season 1

Here's two more scenarios:

1. What's rather conspicuous about the Brothers is that they're ... well ... brothers. Monica made a good point in her TUL1 guide page -- where are the rest of the women? Maybe sex is the defining factor in whether the immunity is of the carrier or non-carrier variety: immune men are non-carriers and immune women are carriers. So why aren't there any more immune women around? It doesn't take a great deal of imagination to see the world turning on those women who survived by could still infect. Nor is it stretch to imagine some turning on themselves.

2. Maybe the monks just assumed they are immune to the BD. Maybe they were never infected. It is possible that they were so isolated that it never reached them -- especially if they were all monks pre-BD. Monestaries have always been places of isolation. That would explain the strong religious factor. Heck, maybe when they said "immune" they ment it in a spiritual sense as opposed to a biological fact.

"They may as implied have been infected, fought off the infection and would now be a source of antibodies,which could provide a temporary passive immunity to the denizens of VS and Devon&Co. But this should also be the case with all the (former)children alive at the time of the BD,they all got a massive "vaccination" as the adults around them died."

I have to wonder if the children were really immunized against the BD. For vaccination against a particular virus to work (at least by my high school biology understanding), one must be infected by a mild dose of that virus causing the immune system to manufacture virus-specific anti-bodies. However, if the children weren't infected by the BD virus because they didn't have the hormones in them that the virus attached itself to, then they would not be vaccinated, and thus still vulnerable as adults (sorry, Markus).

"What I find odd is that either known survivor group cares at all about the BD, it should have gone extinct 3 days after the death of the last adult(Firewall)....Unless there is a third player in the mix?"

Absolutely. The BD is not what everyone is concerned about -- it's the BD2 that's got them all squirming. Well, TM doesn't know it's the BD2, but they're still worried by the people dying from something bit. As we learned from Wiley in TUL2, those humanitaries at VS still want their biological weapon, but without a vaccine against it, they can't control it. Their problem is that Devon is the only surviving authority on the BD and he ain't talking -- yet (way to go, Jeremiah). So they cooked up they're own vaccine and bred the BD2 (congratulations, morons).

With the BD2 as the new Big Bad, will Meaghan still be an asset? For the search for a vaccine against the BD2: maybe ... maybe not (betcha Devon knows). For a vaccine for the BD: the logical conclusion is still a big yes. Which leaves us with a certainty: if VS every finds out she's still alive and where they left her, they'll crack Thunder Mountain open like the proverbial egg to get to her.

 

[grendel]

Re: BD adult survivors question (SPOILER: season 1

where are the rest of the women

Good point,if they were like Meaghan they would not have realized their personal lethality until the older children passed the AoI,perhaps they are around but living in self imposed isolation.

. Maybe the monks just assumed they are immune to the BD. Maybe they were never infected. It is possible that they were so isolated that it never reached them -- especially if they were all monks pre-BD. Monestaries have always been places of isolation. That would explain the strong religious factor. Heck, maybe when they said "immune" they ment it in a spiritual sense as opposed to a biological fact.

If they were not immune how did they survive handeling the dead mother and child, particularly if this was the BD2 ?
I do agree about self imposed isolation being a survival factor and there should have other small groups that had caught on to what was happening and done the same, but if so where are they?
have to wonder if the children were really immunized against the BD. For vaccination against a particular virus to work (at least by my high school biology understanding), one must be infected by a mild dose of that virus causing the immune system to manufacture virus-specific anti-bodies. However, if the children weren't infected by the BD virus because they didn't have the hormones in them that the virus attached itself to, then they would not be vaccinated, and thus still vulnerable as adults (sorry, Markus).

Live virus vaccines are only used where you want to induce an extended immunity, because the virus will replicate for a while in the host giving a greater stimulus to the immune system than a attenuated vaccine or one composed of viral parts. Now while this is ok for MMR it would probably not work for something as fantastically lethal as BD.
I never really bought the "it roots in the hormones"line ,it kind of ignores the fact that testosterone production begins @ the second month of gestation and binding to anything other than the cell wall will simply assure the virus never replicates.Ooops!
In any case, it passes by touch, would have permeated the enviorment towards the end, and though not capable of infecting the children (for whatever reason) would have been noticed by their immune systems and acted on.

As we learned from Wiley in TUL2, those humanitaries at VS still want their biological weapon, but without a vaccine against it, they can't control it
Another thing that does not ring true to me. The folks at VS saw the BD obliterate their families, culture,and world. I would venture that the first leader suggesting it's R&D would find themselves invited outside.And with the armories of the world available for shopping why use something that would allow an opponent, though doomed, to respond in kind with more immediate means of distruction?

With the BD2 as the new Big Bad, will Meaghan still be an asset?

Meaghan, Hmmm Originally I took her for another lost soul with an extra special burden, but now I wonder if she is a part of something else. In any case she would be quite capable of taking down VS if she can get inside without them realizing what she is.As for needing her for research, VS has already tried out a few vaccines which would mean they have a sample of BD to work from.