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Anna Sheridan
- Thread starter Granite
- Start date
Joseph DeMartino
Moderator
1) Beth Toussaint was not available when the time came to film "Shadow Dancing" and "Z'ha'dum". That is simply a chance any production takes when it introduces a character in one season and has them return in another. Roles are recast for similar reasons on other shows all the time. While JMS generally preferred to create a new character rather than recast an existing one, he did so when it was necessary for plot purposes. (Na'Toth, for instance, knew certain things that G'Kar's aide had to know at the start of S2, and therefore had to be retained even if that meant bringing in a new actor to play her.)
Since they had to recat the role anyway, Melissa is a fine actor, and the couple's chemistry would be built in, JMS said, "OK" when Bruce suggested having his wife play his wife. (As a bonus, Babylonian Productions saved the cost of shooting a fake wedding picture of the two for Sheridan's quarters. They just used a real one of Bruce and Melissa.
)
2) Although they had Melissa record the entire video letter to Liz Sheridan so they'd have the option of re-editing the earlier episode, nothing came of the idea. I don't know if JMS has ever explicitly discussed the reason but the obvious one is money, and its close cousin, time. I don't recall the shots all that well, but it is quite possible that at least some were composite shots, with Bruce in the frame. This would create a problem since after a certain point the original film footage of Bruce would have been discarded, and only the composite would remain. It would be tougher to insert Melissa seemlessly in that case than if her image could be added to the raw footage and recomposited from scratch. Either way the process would be exacting and expensive. Also Melissa would have to be added to the credits for the earlier episode, and paid for the use of her performance - and both actresses would probably have to be paid residuals. SAG has many rules and these things can get complicated and expensive. It probably fell into the "cute idea, but too much trouble" file. It isn't like the world ended when Dick Sargent replaced Dick York, after all. In the end "it is just a TV show".
Regards,
Joe
Since they had to recat the role anyway, Melissa is a fine actor, and the couple's chemistry would be built in, JMS said, "OK" when Bruce suggested having his wife play his wife. (As a bonus, Babylonian Productions saved the cost of shooting a fake wedding picture of the two for Sheridan's quarters. They just used a real one of Bruce and Melissa.
) 2) Although they had Melissa record the entire video letter to Liz Sheridan so they'd have the option of re-editing the earlier episode, nothing came of the idea. I don't know if JMS has ever explicitly discussed the reason but the obvious one is money, and its close cousin, time. I don't recall the shots all that well, but it is quite possible that at least some were composite shots, with Bruce in the frame. This would create a problem since after a certain point the original film footage of Bruce would have been discarded, and only the composite would remain. It would be tougher to insert Melissa seemlessly in that case than if her image could be added to the raw footage and recomposited from scratch. Either way the process would be exacting and expensive. Also Melissa would have to be added to the credits for the earlier episode, and paid for the use of her performance - and both actresses would probably have to be paid residuals. SAG has many rules and these things can get complicated and expensive. It probably fell into the "cute idea, but too much trouble" file. It isn't like the world ended when Dick Sargent replaced Dick York, after all. In the end "it is just a TV show".
Regards,
Joe
B5_Obsessed
Regular
I think it also had to do with SAG rules regarding the payment of residuals to Beth Touissant and Melissa Gilbert for the same episode. I think the situation created a headache nobody wanted to deal with. And let's face it, once most shows are in the can, that's it. Only fans of Babylon 5 would wonder why they didn't go back and edit and earlier episode for continuity. JMS has really spoiled us.
PillowRock
Regular
You might as well ask why shots of the still photos of Londo's three wives (which he showed to Vir and introduced as Famine, Disease, and Death; 3 of ther 4 horsemen of the apocalypse) weren't modified once they had actually appeared in an episode.
vacantlook
Super Moderator
Or Sheridan's father in that one flash of them when he was hallucinating when that energy alien was living inside of him briefly (no, not Kosh, the other one ).
).
SwiftBiscuit
Regular
*thinks of the bruhaha over Lucas changing a character in RotJ*
hmmm. I somehow doubt that B5 fans would have kicked off an almighty fuss if JMS had gone back and changed things. Strange huh.
hmmm. I somehow doubt that B5 fans would have kicked off an almighty fuss if JMS had gone back and changed things. Strange huh.
vacantlook
Super Moderator
I can't personally remember: was there a noticble quantity of people that were upset when jms did The Gathering 2.0?
PillowRock
Regular
Not that I remember.
But note these differences from the Lucas / Star Wars case:
1) JMS did not noticeably change any of the major character arcs in the process.
2) Despite ending up with more "character moments" in the re-edit, the consensus opinion is that the re-edit improved the pacing so that it didn't "feel" as slow in some places. Lucas' extra footage did exactly the opposite, especially in the original Star Wars.
3) Arguably most importantly: unlike Star Wars, The Gathering had *not* been around / available for years of repeated viewing so as to allow fans to become emotionally attached to that exact edit. (I would imagine that there were a few people, on the grand national scale, who had taped The Gathering during its initial broadcast; but not enough of them to really create a ground swell of opposition to changing it.)
4) The Gathering was simply not the classic, in any sense of the word, that Star Wars had been.
But note these differences from the Lucas / Star Wars case:
1) JMS did not noticeably change any of the major character arcs in the process.
2) Despite ending up with more "character moments" in the re-edit, the consensus opinion is that the re-edit improved the pacing so that it didn't "feel" as slow in some places. Lucas' extra footage did exactly the opposite, especially in the original Star Wars.
3) Arguably most importantly: unlike Star Wars, The Gathering had *not* been around / available for years of repeated viewing so as to allow fans to become emotionally attached to that exact edit. (I would imagine that there were a few people, on the grand national scale, who had taped The Gathering during its initial broadcast; but not enough of them to really create a ground swell of opposition to changing it.)
4) The Gathering was simply not the classic, in any sense of the word, that Star Wars had been.
vacantlook
Super Moderator
What "major character arcs" were changed in Lucas's revisit to Star Wars?
I'd argue that the original Star Wars has always had a slow pacing for about the first half of the film.
The attachment, indeed, does seem to be the problem, not the actual alterations themselves.
Joseph DeMartino
Moderator
Also in redoing The Gathering the only new material was in the score, some of the CGI and a single line of dialogue. Everything else had been shot as part of the original production and then discarded by the director in favor of alternate material for his cut. In addition the act structure was imposed by the network, and Tamlyn Tomita's was forced to re-record all of her dialogue at the behest of one studio executive. JMS's producer's cut restored as much original material as it excised. It isn't like he got the cast back together and shot new footage to add those "character moments" - they were already there. He put them back. Similarly he restored Tomita's original (and stronger) performance by returning to her original sound tracks. (Her peformance was often singled out as one of the weakest elements of the original cut - largely because of her "softened", looped, dialogue.)
This is a far cry from Lucas inserting the ludicrous shot of Greedo shooting first at the cantina, which is not only stupid in and of itself (how does a feared bounty hunter manage to miss a stationery target sitting across from him in what amounts to a booth at Denny's?) but also changes the whole characterization of Han Solo. It told us something about him when he shot Greedo in cold blood, and that gets lost when Lucas wimps out and makes it self-defense.
Regards,
Joe
This is a far cry from Lucas inserting the ludicrous shot of Greedo shooting first at the cantina, which is not only stupid in and of itself (how does a feared bounty hunter manage to miss a stationery target sitting across from him in what amounts to a booth at Denny's?) but also changes the whole characterization of Han Solo. It told us something about him when he shot Greedo in cold blood, and that gets lost when Lucas wimps out and makes it self-defense.
Regards,
Joe
vacantlook
Super Moderator
I can honestly say I never once watched ANH and thought of Greedo as a fearsome bounty hunter. I always saw him as a lame lackey trying desperately to make a name for himself because he knew himself to be nothing but a lackey.
But I do see how that can come across as a bit of a change in Han's characterization. I never personally saw the original version of the scene as Han killing in "cold blood," so I guess that might be why it's not a big deal to me.
GaribaldisHair
Regular
Yeah, but lackey or not even I could shoot a stationery target from 4 feet.
The point is not in the "cold blood" aspect of it, but showing that Han is prepared to to do anything to save his own skin. That is a very important point when you get to the later part of the movie.
Having Greedo shoot first establishes only that Han is prepared to kill someone who is trying to kill him - something that might well apply to most of us I would guess.
The journey of Han's character has to start from killing Greedo "in cold blood" to save his neck, otherwise that journey, and the characters development, is lessened.
Anyhoo, I always wondered how the dynamic of Sheridan and Anna would have panned out with Beth Toussaint still in the role, and I don't recall having seen her in anything else. Any ideas?
iamsheridan
Member
I never understood that scene, at that time. I thought it was very confusing, but I always FIGURED that Han shoot in defense. We actually never see Greedos hands, do we? We don't know if he too was holding a gun or not.
I think it would have been the same. There's no reason it wouldn't.
/IamS
Sindatur
Regular
Joe, are you sure that was Tamlyn Tomita's character. I remember in one of the commentaries it was Pat Tallman, (as the assasin?) in Dr. Kyle's Medbay. The powers that be thought it was over the top inher opriginal performance, and told JMS to water it down, then they complained the performance wasn't strong enough.
I'll probably eventually get the Star Wars DVD set, it seems even people who were on the fence, or leary, are happy with the set. I won't rush out to buy it, but, will eventually get it.
I'll probably eventually get the Star Wars DVD set, it seems even people who were on the fence, or leary, are happy with the set. I won't rush out to buy it, but, will eventually get it.
PillowRock
Regular
This has been answered. The starting point for Han's character changes significantly, which in turn alters the shape of the arc of change / growth that his character goes through.
I thought that it (the orginal edit) did a good job of starting slowly enough to get across a feeling of the pastoral life that Luke was coming from, without being too slow for too long so that the audiance lapses into boredom. The re-edit, with its additional footage (not to mention entire additional scenes) in the early section of the movie, starts pushing that limit too much. Ultimately, it hurt the whole tone and feel of the movie, for me anyway.
