Who looms large in scif and fantasy,in movies, televsion and literature.

[Garovorkin]

This is a thread which I hope will inspire some discussion. who are the most important people shows and books in the genres Science fiction Fantasy and we will add Horror to the mix. This can include any writers ,producers,directors,films tv series. books or series series of books. Why they are important, impact. this one is wide open.

 

[Garovorkin]

Okay lets start with televsion. Rod Serling, His television show the Twilight Zone brought to us some of finest moments of scif and fantast and Horror. Who can forget such classic as Terror at 20,000 feet or Where is everybody or the flying dutchman like Death Ship episode or the Concentration camp themed episode Deathshead Revisited or the Kafkaesque episode The Obsolete Man. some of the finest written of those respective genres Rod Serling is one of the greats no question.

 

[KoshFan]

Ray Bradbury.

Yeah, I know you were all expecting me to say "Joss Whedon," but Ray Bradbury was a true giant of the field. His effect was vast, his works were genius. His short stories were what inspired me to start writing.

 

[Garovorkin]

Bradbury is definitly hight up there, its to Bad tthat network television butchered the Martian Chronicles and Disney did an unremarkable interpretation of Something Wicked This Way Comes. Fahrenheit 451 the movie version was not bad and the best of the adaptations, The Illuistrated Man film did not really work. I did like ray bradbury theater which did parts of the Martian Chronicles among its stories,

Writer that I have tremendous respect for is Harlan Ellison, Stories like Repent Harlequin Cried the Tick Tock man, I have no Mouth But I must Scream, Solider and Demon Wth A Glass Hand. Them man is great, I have learned so much from his stories and Introductions and Essays. I have picked up so many wonderful writers from having read him. People like Alfred Bester, Theodore Sturgeon, Cornell Woolrich, James Branch Cabell and many others. This man also created the most famous and ground breaking Anthology of all time Dangerous Visions written in 1967, He also wrote A marvelous Screenplay For Star trek City on the Edge of Forever. I dislike the televised version of City which differed from what he wrote.

 

[Garovorkin]

Star Trek of course, Gene Roddenberry's vision of the future still does with it's message of hope and a better word, and a better future, inspired so many. Kids who say the marvelous gadgets in trek, were inspired to become scientists and engineers and invent them. A world without trek is something none of us want imagine. Think of how much science fiction we might not have or technology that might not have come about.

 

[Ranger1]

Heinlien bitches, no greater name shall there ever be, although Stranger In A Strange Land, is frankly over long.
Plus Starship Troopers, man, the opening lines are something else, before chapter one even.

"some called it the third space war, some called it the first intergalactic war, we just called it the bug war."

'nuff said.

he admittedly isn't my favourite BUT he is the best and most important.

on a side note, i used to know Ray Bradbury's granddaughter. just thought I'd throw that one out there.

 

[Garovorkin]

Yes, Heinlein's Starship Troopers is a classic book . Its to bad Paul Verhoeven decided to turn it into a joke, The CGI series based on the Movie though 40 episodes on the other hand is quite good. The sad part is until The movie version of Troopers Iwould have rated Verhoeven high on the list. He gave us such films as RoboCop and Total Recall which to me are still really good science fiction films

 

[KoshFan]

Ah, but the movie version of Starship Troopers is such a classic skewering of fascism! And Heinlein was such a fascist when writing that one, so he deserves to get skewered. He really was just churning out his own philosophies and wish fulfillment. Like "The Puppet Masters." Aliens take over... but they can only control humans through skin contact. So the word comes down: everyone must take off their clothes! I really think he was simply channeling his Id for most of his career. That said, "The Moon is a Harsh Mistress" is the glorious intersection of revolutionary planning, artificial intelligence, and lunar physics. The finest book of his that I've read.

I suppose we have to mention Clarke and Asimov, but frankly I never loved them nearly as much as Bradbury.

I guess we might also have to include Lucas and Spielberg, as much as it may gall us.

 

[Garovorkin]

Yes Heinlein was politically on the right but this does not make him a fascist, The problem I had was that Verhoeven decided to put his own politcal spin on it. He picked the worst possible actors for the movie with maybe the exception of of Michael Ironside. C"mon Denise Richards as Ibanez? she cannot act and Casper Van Deim as Rico? He has even less acting ability then Denise Richards. In the book I liked Rico and Ibanez and they bore no resemblance to those cartoon creatures in the movie. Best Performance by an Inanimate Object both Richards and Van Deim and best supporting inanimate actor award goes to Neil Patrick Harris as Carl Jenkins,This is one film that should have died in development hell. As much as I admire Verhoeven's past efforts in science fiction, I can never like him again for this one. What we should have gotten was Starship Troopers what we got was something else.

 

[KoshFan]

Ever occur to you that with the way they were making fun of everything else, selecting bad actors was intentional?

The original was a very young Heinlein being stupid. He got much better. If anyone made a "Harsh Mistress" movie and botched it, that I'd be upset about.

 

[Garovorkin]

Actually that did occure to me. Koshfan this movie is something of a sore point with me. Why couldn't Verhoeven have given us a movie a little more in line with the book. If he wanted to put in a few cautionary politcal opinions he could have done it without destroying Starship Troopers in the process, which is what he did .

 

[Garovorkin]

Koshfan I happen to like Starship Troopers It's the first novel that I read by him, and I totally hate what Paul Verhoeven did to it and i think he did Heinlein and his fans a great disservice by trashing Starship Troopers the way he did. I do agree with you about Moon is a Harsh Mistress of all his novels I like this one best of all. and any Movie Exc, Screenwriter or Director that ruined this one, should be tared feathered and run out of Hollywood on two rails, one rail just wouldn't be enough.

 

[hypatia]

I suppose we have to mention Clarke and Asimov, but frankly I never loved them nearly as much as Bradbury.

Have to mention? :vulcan:

Clarke and Asimov were giants in the field of sci-fi literature. Yes, not to everyone's favorite taste, but essential I believe to the growth of the industry.

A fantasy writer who writes books I don't always like, but wrote one unforgettable one: Ursula K. Le Guin. Her story "Lathe of Heaven" is a real jaw-dropper. Something never before done in science fiction, I think. A truly unique story, and a fascinating one.

There is also Anne McCaffrey (?) who wrote the whole Dragonriders series. I enjoyed those when I read them, but never was really tempted to read them over and over again.

It is a bit sad to see the lack of women writers in sci-fi. But a few have made their mark. Hopefully more shall in the future. But that leads to another fear of mine: is bookwriting as popular a profession as it used to be? As people read less and less it seems scriptwriting has taken over most of the talent. Please someone, explain to me how wrong I am. I really want to be wrong on this.

 

[hypatia]

Heinlein, yea. He was a trip sometimes, wasn't he? Let's find an excuse for everyone to get NEKKID!!:thumbsup::guffaw:

But let's face it, "Stranger in a Strange Land" rocked the science fiction world, and justifiably so in my opinion. I like the suggestion of most of his writing letting his Id run loose. that actually would explain a lot.

 

[Garovorkin]

Hypatia If you like Leguin there are some books I would like to recommends

Fritz Leiber Swords and Devilty book 1 of the grey mouser series they are all good books

Michael Moorcock Elric of Melnibone They are republishing all of his eternal champion novels truly great all of them

James Branch Cabell Jurgen its a really wonderful comic satire fantasy novel was banned in Boston 1919

Jack London The Star Rover a novel about a man in prison in a strait jacket who discovers he can astral project himself into his past lives at will. It his only fantasy novel and it different from everything else he ever wrote. It is epic in scope and A journey across time space and history and Wonderful to read. written 1915

Lord Dunsany The Charwomans Shadow and other book The king of Elflands Daughter both written around 1916 or 17

William Hope Hodgson The House on the Borderland, written 1907

William Morris The Well at the Worlds End written 1896

Clark Ashton Smith Lost Worlds in the category of Short Fantasy, He is the greatest of them all.

Jack Vance Tales from the Dying Earth written in the 50s and 60"s

 

[hypatia]

Those all sound interesting, Gar. Wow, some of them are really early works. I'm not used to reading fantasy/sci-fi earlier than H.G. Welles. Talk about formative sci-fi, though.

 

[Cell]

Yes Heinlein was politically on the right but this does not make him a fascist, The problem I had was that Verhoeven decided to put his own politcal spin on it. He picked the worst possible actors for the movie with maybe the exception of of Michael Ironside. C"mon Denise Richards as Ibanez? she cannot act and Casper Van Deim as Rico? He has even less acting ability then Denise Richards. In the book I liked Rico and Ibanez and they bore no resemblance to those cartoon creatures in the movie. Best Performance by an Inanimate Object both Richards and Van Deim and best supporting inanimate actor award goes to Neil Patrick Harris as Carl Jenkins,This is one film that should have died in development hell. As much as I admire Verhoeven's past efforts in science fiction, I can never like him again for this one. What we should have gotten was Starship Troopers what we got was something else.

The actors in Starship Troopers were not supposed to be noticed, or even cared about really. That was a message movie pure and simple. It was all about big government and fascism and how even the most deplorable thing can be made to look good by the right people. And judging by the mount of people that either A) didn't like the movie or B) came away thinking that it was portraying fascism as good, I don't think most people got the movie. If you don't like it that's cool, but in my book ST is one of the best sci-fi movies ever made and gets overlooked far too often.

 

[Garovorkin]

I wanted Starship Troopers not that polemic piece of crap that Verhoeven produced. It was bad piece of film making and it deserved fail at the Box office. It is not question of nobody got it, most thought it was piece of Box office crud. Look you think is was good fine thats your opinion and your entitled to it, I am not telling you you what you should think on the matter.

 

[Cell]

As for the topic at hand, I'm going to go in a different direction and tackle a few current guys. They may not be giants in their field yet, but they should be and years from now I hope their work will be looked at as classic.

Alexandre Aja, a name that most people don't know but they should. While hacks like Eli Roth are being lauded for pure crap like Hostel and Hostel 2 Aja has taken the horror genre and returned it to what it should be, horror. He sidestepped the gore and gore alone "new horror" and made Haute Tension and The Hills Have Eyes, two of the greatest horror movies ever made. They are full of gore, but the gore is only there to add to what makes horror movies great, the suspense and the mystery. Aja understands this and that is why his will be a great director for years to come.

Guillermo Del Toro, the man does one thing and one thing only, and that is make masterpieces. His greatest work is probably a movie that almost no one has seen, and that is The Devil's Backbone. Then he followed that up with the criminally underrated Blade 2, the beyond excellent Pan's Labyrinth and the best comic movie to come out in forever, Hellboy. With Hellboy 2, The Hobbit, and other fantasy work such as At The Mountain Of Madness and Dr. Strange on the way this director that gets that fantasy is adult like no other won't be slowing down anytime soon.

Matthew Stover, most people know him for his Star Wars work, but those, while great, are tamed down versions of what he is capable of. The Caine Trilogy offers a grim and dirty look at the fantasy realm where there aren't any whimsical fairies or happy endings, rather people die, end up crippled, and hate their lives. His SW novels have been so dark and yet so full of character and intense plot that he leaves any other SW authors not named Troy Denning in the dust and makes them look like the average authors they are. His work in fantasy should become the new standard for adult fantasy in prose, it won';t, but it should.

 

[Cell]

I wanted Starship Troopers not that polemic piece of crap that Verhoeven produced. It was bad piece of film making and it deserved fail at the Box office. It is not question of nobody got it, most thought it was piece of Box office crud. Look you think is was good fine thats your opinion and your entitled to it, I am not telling you you what you should think on the matter.

Yeah, you seem to love to make statements, and then not follow them up with analysis or back out of the topic all apologetically when anyone calls you on them. I'm perfectly fine with you not liking ST, or having a different opinion on the movie than me, but if you really want to be taken seriously then you need to start offering real insight into why you think the way you do instead of simply stating, "it was a piece of crap" Both KoshFan and myself have brought up good points on why the movie was good and what made it good and your only response has been, "I wanted the book (which is not a valid argument) and the movie was a piece of crap." That doesn't offer up any insight nor will it provoke any good discussion. If you really want good discussion like you say you do all the time, then help bring some up and give insight into why you think the way you do.