• The new B5TV.COM is here. We've replaced our 16 year old software with flashy new XenForo install. Registration is open again. Password resets will work again. More info here.

rangers series: odds of seeing vorlons or shadows again?

i know ill catch at least a little flack from this, but let me through a thow out.


do we REALLY know for sure they have let the rim? by that, i mean ALL of them? if they are as sentient and individual as we are (most probably more), then some of them may have accually CHOSEN to stay. for who knows what reason. i mentioned the super-aliens from thirdspace and there vorlon drones. maybe they regained control, maybe they didnt.

there are a thousand circumstances that could have kept a shadow and/or vorlon leftover. what about an imprisoned shadow, or vorlon, or one that stayed behind on the vorlon homewlrd to welcome the humans in a million years? whose to say that all the shadows were even awakened in the last war. we know they were really sloppy about there weapons and tech, so why wouldnt they be sloppy on there recall? and why wouldnt one individual shadow out of who knows how many choose simply not to go?


there are countless reasons for the possibility (not really the need) to see another vorlon or shadow. i originally though that perhaps a cure for the drakh plague would of been given by a shadow, for its own reasons. yea, its weird to concieve, but so was the thought of the vorlons destroying planets simply for who they were in contact with.

------------------
"if you cant say what you mean, you cant mean what you say"

"better to let a thousand guilty go free than to punish one innocent"

"the best way to find the REAL boss of any establishment is not to look for they person who signs the checks, but to look for the person who hires the lawyers."

[This message has been edited by loontex (edited June 06, 2001).]
 
Loon:

I'm not trying to give you flak, I'm disagreeing with you. There is, I hope, a difference.
smile.gif
I just don't think your arguments hold water in light of everything that is in the series, combined with very clear statements that JMS has made on the subject.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>do we REALLY know for sure they have let the rim?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes.

First, because it so clearly the whole reason the B5 story existed in the first place, and because having any of them stick around would completely undermine the dramatic core of the series. (This reminds me of all the posts by people who want Marcus to come back within Susan's lifetime and can't understand that such a development would destroy the entire dramatic point of Marcus's existence and would frankly be a cheat.)

Second, because JMS has told us so. Repeatedly. Given that it is his story, I really see no reason to doubt him.

I'm not saying that you can't invent some kind of semi-plausible fan-fic circumstance in which you could pull this off. Of course you can. You can imagine almost anything. I can imagine a version of The Lord of the Rings where Sauron comes back. But that would be my story (and a pretty silly one, at that), not Tolkein's. The Shadows and Vorlons are not coming back in JMS's story. So what is the point of laboring to create scenarios where they might?

Finally, you might want to consider this little quote from "Into the Fire."

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>LORIEN:

I waited a long time for someone to find me. Now, like the others, I find I hate to leave. But none of us can stay behind this time. That was why it was necessary to find all the remaining First Ones. This... is yours now. And you have an obligation... to do as we have done. To teach the races that will follow you and, when your time comes, as ours has, to step aside and allow them to grow into their own destiny. -- (emphasis added, J.D.)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I thought that was pretty clear, myself.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>i mentioned the super-aliens from thirdspace and there vorlon drones.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thirdspace was a one-off experiment with doing an H.P. Lovecraft story in the B5 universe. It was JMS having a bit of literary fun. He deliberately engineered the story so that the door into Thirdspace would never be opened again. (It requires portals on both sides, remember, and the last such portal on this side was destroyed. The Vorlons made other mistakes according to Lyta. Not the same one repeatedly.)

This is not something JMS would ever want to explore in a series, anymore than the mystery aliens of "A View From the Gallery" were or Jason Ironheart is. Sometimes characters and creatures are created to perform their role in one story and never be seen again. Not every single episode needs or deserves a sequel.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>...there are countless reasons for the possibility (not really the need) to see another vorlon or shadow.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

See above. There are countless ways of imagining such a thing, provided you're willing to gut the B5 story. JMS isn't. And he has the deciding vote in this debate.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>The previously mentioned Nautilus Coil does in fact include one such left behind Vorlon(-part)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The character involved is no more a Vorlon than Sheridan is. There is an enormous difference between him and a genuine First One being left behind. Besides, Lyta learns about him before the Telepath War is over, and so does Garibaldi. While they don't learn everything, and are misled as to what finally happens, there is still a chance that someone is going to come looking for that planet again. By the time of Rangers it may no longer be an issue. In any event, the character himself denies that he's a Vorlon in the strict sense:

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>"I developed with him in me - we were never separate entities, really. I never had two voices, only one, a fusion of Vorlon and Human. Later in life, I met the second Vorlon and learned the truth about myself. And about other things - the Shadows, the coming war. About our origins, as telepaths.” He rubbed his knees. “So I am Vorlon, in a way, yes, but also human. I was not something anyone ever planned.” -- "The Nautilus Coil" by John Gergory Keyes<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Whatever else he might be, I don't think we can really count this character as a "left behind" First One.

Regards,

Joe

------------------
Joseph DeMartino
Sigh Corps
Pat Tallman Division

joseph-demartino@att.net

[This message has been edited by Joseph DeMartino (edited June 06, 2001).]
 
Sticking a First One in any of the stories would create the "Superman" effect. He's the strongest, most indestructable critter in the Universe. Smack him over the head with a thremonuclear weapon nad all it does is mess up the part in his hair. If that.

Kinda makes for Really Boring Battles.

"OK, he's beaten. Who's the next brain damaged villian?"

JMS is a long time Fan of Superman. That doesn't mean he can't see the dramatic flaw. There is Never any suspense. He's never in any Real danger.

JMs likes to put people in situations where they are in Really Deep Doo Doo so we can watch them either Cope or Drown. And, sometimes, they Drown. That's Life!




------------------
Yes, I like cats too.
Shall we exchange Recipes?
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>JMS is a long time Fan of Superman. That doesn't mean he can't see the dramatic flaw. There is Never any suspense. He's never in any Real danger.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Exactly. When I was in high school I was a huge comic book fan, but this kind of thing used to drive me nuts. At one time they had one of those grossly over-powered line-ups in The Avengers, the kind where you didn't need a team because any one of three or four guys should have been able to wipe out any known villain without breaking a sweat. They had the Hulk, Thor and I don't even know who else, along with guys like Ant Man, Hawkeye and the Wasp.

A friend and I once did a mock issue that consisted of the entire team sitting around Avenger's mansion, drinking beer, eating chips and watching a ball game on TV. Every time a supervillain would show up at the front door Alfred would come in and announce, "I believe it's for you, Master Thor" - and Thor would go out and flatten the guy. Meanwhile Captain America and Hawkeye would fight over the chips and the Wasp would keep trying to get Ant Man to switch to the tennis match for a few minutes.
smile.gif


<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>"I don't like characters that powerful running around the plotline." - JMS on why Jason Ironheart would never return<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Regards,

Joe

------------------
Joseph DeMartino
Sigh Corps
Pat Tallman Division

joseph-demartino@att.net
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by drakh:
The previously mentioned Nautilus Coil does in fact include one such left behind Vorlon(-part).<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>\

Aye this is true




<table bgcolor=black><tr><td bgcolor=black><font size=1 color=white>Spoiler:</font></td></tr><tr><td><font size=2 color=black> The Vorlon or part of Vorlon was inside Kevin Vacit..Very interesting Charactert this guy is </font></td></tr></table>



------------------
Deviot
Lincbot@yahoo.com.au
 
There is also jms' outline for the feature film, centering on the teep war. He's said that "there will be Vorlons involved", though of course, that could be in flashbacks.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by drakh:
There is also jms' outline for the feature film, centering on the teep war. He's said that "there will be Vorlons involved", though of course, that could be in flashbacks.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

hey when did you hear this? Guess I outa loop on this.

I know people having been hoping for a teep war feature film but I didn't know JMS had said he was actually making it.



------------------
Deviot
Lincbot@yahoo.com.au
 
Nobody's making a B5 feature of any kind. But in an interview he gave sometime after the whole Crusade mess was over he did reveal that he had gone as far as writing an outline for the proposed feature. Once Crusade was gone and TNT started moving B5 into increasingly worse timeslots Warner Bros. realized that the time was not right for a feature film and plans were shelved. (I believe that Walter Koenig also mentioned somewhere that Warner Bros. had sounded him out about the idea. Very preliminary stuff, just to find out if he was interested and potentially available.)

If Rangers goes to series and does well, Warner Bros. will probably take another look at a B5 film. But that's probably at least a year away and nothing is happening for now.

Regards,

Joe

------------------
Joseph DeMartino
Sigh Corps
Pat Tallman Division

joseph-demartino@att.net
 

Latest posts

Members online

No members online now.
Back
Top