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Galactica Season 4 (Spoilers Within)

At least Romo got a new pet, So is absolute power going to corrupt Lee Adama? sometimes people with high Ideals and good intentions can quickly go down the dark path of self interest and Ego and worse.This comes under the heading of the road to hell being paved with good intentions. We might want to remember when Lee was in charge of Pegasus , he to pot and lost his self esteem and himself for a while. Im not sure Lee Adama can handle being in charge over the long haul without the risk of losing himself. The way he got the job might be his first steps down that slippery slope.
 
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Ok, so tonight's episode...


I couldn't help but to feel like I was waiting the whole episode for the show to catch up plotwise to where my mind was already. I know plenty of stuff happened in this episode, but I just kept feeling like saying, "Hurry up already!"
 
I watched it a little bit drunk, maybe that helped, maybe it didn't. It felt like a big-cock tease to me. I'm not convinced that "a lot" happened at all in the episode.
 
First after, again, being gone for a bit let me say to darth, Hey back!

I'm with Alluveal on last week's ep. While it was slow paced, I think there's always more beneath the surface. You all act like Lee will be in charge for some period of time. He won't since Roslyn will return pretty quickly. I thought it a bit of a stretch for them to put Lee in charge and to allow Adama to dictate who the president should be. It should've been Zerrick, period, he was in line and Adama should've been told he had to deal with him. End of line.


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Now...last night's ep was frakkin' wonderful! There is so much info being played out here that if you're not careful you'll miss something crucial. From Roselyn's visions while jumping and the revelation that she won't let herself love (and I was happy to see the Priest back...I love her!) to the fact that when they were returning Roselyn was seeing the Priest when they weren't jumping; from Baltar's "you're a person, too" conversation with the centurion (and it's very odd reaction) to his morph-induced confession (what a damn good scene!); from the Sharon's admitting to peaking into Athena's memories to Helo's almost horrified reaction at seeing all the "dead" cylon bodies; from the hybrid knowingly jumping them to complete their mission (when was it ever in on the mission? It was down when the mission was planned.) to it's being aware that the 3 was back; from D'Anna's revival (and great killing of Cavil...LOL) to her now being the only 3 in existance (this will give her a uniquely "human" perception now) and her out for #1 position on things to her frakking with Roselyn's head for a second about her being the 5th (I knew it was going to be something like that)....well, I could just go on and on. This was a wondefully written episode! Roselyn's admittance to loving Adama at the end was great and is very important to her character going forward I believe.

Now...Over at Trekmovie.com there's a weekly article that Anthony (the site runner) posts every week on BSG. In a recent one (I believe it was the article for last week's ep) he had some interview links to an interview with Olmos and a mention of Aaron Douglass' thoughts on the 5th cylon. Here is the link: http://news.scifinow.co.uk/?p=234

Here is a bit of what was said:

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“It’s not a happy ending, we end up with almost nothing,” the 61-year-old actor told journalists from the magazine over the weekend, while jokingly recommending that people don’t watch it. Previously in the day, Olmos had described how highly he rated the show, reaffirming his previous statement that it was the best television that he had been involved with. “Twenty years from now, people will see this as excellent post-9/11 television. It’ll be marketed in a way that demonstrates sociological change for the time.”

And here is what Douglass said about the 5th:'

Olmos also revealed that the cast now know who the final Cylon is as they’ve shot the last episode, but he remained tight-lipped over the final fifth’s identity. However, Aaron Douglas did say that all of the guesses and popular theories he’d seen on internet forums and blogs “don’t even come close”.

Ok, so armed with this info and doing what Alluveal is doing in looking at the moments and after thinking long and hard on this ep and those leading up to it and after talking at length about it, my roommate and I have begun to believe we may have an inkling of who the 5th cylon is, how and why they are important, what their search for redemption could be (the hybrids have referred to the 5th as being one searching for redemption, coming out of a dark place), and what’s going to happen when they find earth.

The trailer for the next ep seems to indicate they find earth, which would make it a cliffhanger for sure. What a place to leave us with them finding earth in the last 5 or 10 minutes. That could possibly make sense though, because that would leave them the entire last half of the final season to reveal, explain, conclude and generally wrap things up.

And just to give you all a hint as to who we believe is the 5th cylon, it’s someone who is trully not in the “last supper” picture, but who has been there, quietly, the entire series and has had some influence on key people. Considering Douglass says no one has come close and since I've seen this person rarely if ever even mentioned...then well, we'll wait and see.

If you all want me to post our thoughts and conclusions here at the near mid-mark of the final season, I will be happy to do so. But I don't want to post them right off since they could possibly end up leading someone to conclusions that spoil the rest of the show for them. For me, having believed I may have possibly figured this thing out to some degree, it doesn't spoil it...it now becomes a matter of seeing how right I turn out to be.

I'll check back and see what your desire is later and if you seem to want me to go into it, I will be glad to do so.

Oh and as for why they split the season, it was not planned to be split like this, but the strike affected the show's production, so they had to split it. This is why they're now considering doing up to 4 more Razor-like TV movies immediately before the sets are struck that will be shown in the time between now and when the last 10 episodes air. These movies will do what Razor did and give very important backstory that's key to the end of the series. This also strengthens my hypothosis as to who the 5th may be and where this will all end. There will also be a series of mini-webisodes building back up to the final 10 eps.

So...now I just sit back and see what you guys want me to do. Don't take too long. (Can you tell I really want to share my thoughts with you guys? And let's be clear, you guys are the only forum I'm sharing this with. Why? Because, no one talks BSG like you guys! You're the best! Well, after all, you're B5 folk and B5 folk are always the best to talk shows like this with...because we've had a lot of practice :) )

CE
 
Please reveal your thoughts on the final cylon! I'm interested for sure.

I also loved this episode. I'm a big, gooey mess of tears and sniffling as we speak. I just watched it this morning (I usually record it the night before as I have baby things to tend to and like to watch it uninterrupted.)

One thing. Adama was reading to Roslyn in her vision and he was reading this nice prose, then he said something like, "and the cylon Scar who saved my life, etc." No idea why that was thrown in there, unless he was reading something written by Starbuck? Weird.

Laura's conversation with Elosha was awesome. "Just love someone." Good message that.

Great to see D'Anna again. I love Lucy Lawless (self-admitted Xena fan here.) Her offing brother C was mucho entertaining, especially since he might have been able to begin downloading, but got iced in the middle of the process when the hub went. Technical question, though, why isn't the hub better protected?

Boomer will turn on the rest. My prediction right now. I don't know anyone who likes to be called "my little pet," as Cavil called her. Maybe she'll see Tyrol again and something will click there. Though it looks like Tigh, Tyrol and Anders are looking at the bad end of a launch tube in the next episode. I think I feel the worst for Anders and Tigh in all of this. Tigh and "the Old Man" have such an amazing bond and while I know Adama is capable of trusting certain cylons (Athena,) he had that trust broken when Athena iced Natalie and it took him a hell of a long time. Tigh will cut him to the quick. And Anders . . . Starbuck is Starbuck. She's made it clear what she'd do if Anders ever admitted to being one (joking or not, that's Starbuck.)

This is the best Baltar I've seen all season. This is the Baltar we know and love. His conversation with the centurion was classic and the "near death" scene was also well done by him and Laura. Geesh. His confession could have been so heart-breaing, but he ruined it by . . . well . . . by being Baltar. "I don't feel guilt."

From Season 1:

Imaginary Six to Baltar: "I remember you telling me once that guilt is something small people feel when they run out of excuses for their behavior."

Baltar to Gaeta: "It is hard. I feel responsible in a way for what happened."

Imaginary Six: (to Baltar) "But you don't. That's part of the reason I fell in love with you. You have a clarity of spirit. You're not burdened by conscience, or guilt, or regret."

As for the comments made by Olmos. I think we're all expecting something relatively tragic for an ending, but a new beginning. My guess is that most will die (including Galactica being blown to bits) but it will ensure the survival of mankind.

I will say that I'd give anything to have input on the last episode. I think I would write something that took us back (in flashbacks) to the building of Galactica--some engineer lovingly putting the ole bucket together, running his hands over every piece of metal, every bolt, then merging that in with scenes of its destruction (and c'mon, who here thinks Galactica will actually survive?)

I see post-apocalyptic Earth. I see cylons and humans having to survive together. I see few from the cast actually surviving. It will be good, I'm sure off that.
 
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I watched it a little bit drunk, maybe that helped, maybe it didn't. It felt like a big-cock tease to me. I'm not convinced that "a lot" happened at all in the episode.

Well, by " a lot" I mean the resurrection hub did get destroyed. That's a big event within the story world. The way it was presented, it was like any other thing being blown up; it totally didn't have the weight and impact on the viewer that it should have. And I guess it's also relatively a big thing that Baltar has fully confessed to Roslin that he helped the cylons destroy the colonies. Not that she hasn't known for a while, but his confession takes all doubt away. But still, that was an intimate two-characters on a stage type moment, and with the whole big attack, I was expecting to come away with wowed feeling, but it was all really ho-hum.

colonyearth said:
...(and I was happy to see the Priest back...I love her!)....

That is one thing I did enjoy a lot about last night's episode: getting to see Elosha, even if she was another of Roslin's hallucinations, again.

...to her frakking with Roselyn's head for a second about her being the 5th....

For me, that was just stupid. It looks like that exchange was written solely to be able to use it in the advertisement to make people think that something was going to happen in the episode that didn't just to keep stringing the viewers along, which pisses me off. I don't like a show treating me like I'm a cat chasing a string across the floor.
 
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Yea I think I need to rewatch it sober and awake. I probably wasn't in the best frame of mind to really take it in (or was I? ;) )

CE: I really dont see why you need to ask to post your thoughts on how the series will end, or who you think the final cylon is --- just post it! Its not a spoiler because it is your GUESS. Even if you turn out to be right, it won't ruin things. I thought this thread was about discussing the show and the possibilities. Posting a guess isn't a spoiler. Posting things actors say about future episodes in interviews is (and you did use spoiler warnings which is fine).

Seriously, just post it. It will be an interesting read if anything.
 
Ok...without any fanfare and with no explanation yet (I'm rushing out the door but wanted to throw it out there) here is who we believe the frontrunner for the 5th cylon....Doc Coddle (not sure of that spelling imdb seems to be down). Just think about it and analyse it. And when looking for the redemption angle...we may not know all we will eventually know. Remdemption could have something to do past events yet to be revealed that should be revealed, like who made the skinjobs, etc. Just mull it over and think about it.

As for the ending. Yes, post-apolyptic kind-of...that is what earth will be. But not a dead world...just...empty. Most of mankind is dead. I've read somewhere (not sure where) that the end will move forward in time some. Now on this theory I'm less "certain" than on the Doc Coddle one. But just think about the fact that we now have 2 cylon hybrid children (not sure about this Caprica is pregnant with Tigh's child bit). We have Tyrol's kid, a boy, and Athena and Helo's kid, a girl. Now think of that oft repeated line, "This has all happened before and it will all happen again." We will see the end of one cycle and the beginning of a new one. Now think...garden of eden...adam and eve. Huh? Thoughts?

CE
 
Recoil, you mean you actually watch TV completely sober? My god, if I ever did that, I'd probably throw mine out the window!

Sam Adams Summer Ale accompanied the new one- and folks, has Sam Adams ever disappointed with one of their ales?

Nice to see BSG resorting to one of the most hack cliche plot devices- the Magical Black Person.

Count me in as another Lucy Lawless fan- and I don't even like Xena. She's just a great screen presence.

So did Adama waiting out there in space actually help anything, besides just proving to Roselyn how much he loves her? They would've found the rest of the fleet anyway, right?

You know what this show feels like now- Deep Space Nine. The main story is still kind of interesting, and I do care about how it all turns out and think it can be pretty sweet. But anything outside of that is freakin' irritating, and any scene that doesn't move the story along is painful. Maybe it has to do with how likable the characters are or something. On my favorite shows, like B5 and Deadwood and original Trek, I can watch those people just sit around and shoot the shit and crack jokes and fall in love and it has nothing to do with the main story and it's still fun to watch. But I just don't feel that way about these people, I just want to know why the Cylons are how they are and what this all means.
 
Nice to see BSG resorting to one of the most hack cliche plot devices- the Magical Black Person.

Uhh, ok. I guess we're all entitled to our theories. The whole thing was a Jungian set-up from the get-go (IMHO.) First off, Elosha was in the first season, as the president's spiritual advisor. Great choice, imho. I guess she should have been white in the first season? But then we'd get someone bitching about how there aren't enough people of color on Galactica, so you can't please everyone.

Elosha, imho, represented Roslyn's anima, her perfect opposite self. In dreams, this person often manifests as your opposite. If you are white, the anima (or animus if male) is dark-skinned. If you are dark, they are often white. Consider where the whole yin-yang concept came from. The anima(animus) is there to bring our separated parts together. In this case, Roslyn's emotional self was dying, had given up. Her whole message was "to love" (a very emotional and passionate thing--sometimes separate from our logical selves.)

I was blown away by the symbolism, but I guess some people will always say, "look the token black person." Sad that such a beautiful moment is reduced to that in the minds of some. No offense, but I think your comment is way off mark. To each their own, though.
 
Ok please, chill out. I wasn't making any accusations or anything. Just that if you're familiar with the term "Magical Black Person," and how it's applied to Hollywood, my remark should be taken as an amusing observation. Or not- whatever.
 
Haha, I'm not unchilled, I just didn't see the "magical black person" in this episode. I saw a person and saw the symbolism and so forth. It's how I read it. You read it different. I understand how Hollywood can do this, or the black person that always dies, or sacrifices themselves (Ebert often referred to that.) The Matrix, yadda yadda.

I just think if people look too much into something, they'll always find it. And you'll run out of "magical (enter racial choice here)" if you keep doing that.

I was delighted to see an old character return. She was badass in the first season. Laura needs some spiritual guidance. She has Tory the psycho, slut cylon as her aide. Roslyn needs some Lords of Kobol to bitchslap her crying-during-sex ass back to the what's left of the resurrection hub.
 
Uhh, ok. I guess we're all entitled to our theories. The whole thing was a Jungian set-up from the get-go (IMHO.) First off, Elosha was in the first season, as the president's spiritual advisor. Great choice, imho. I guess she should have been white in the first season? But then we'd get someone bitching about how there aren't enough people of color on Galactica, so you can't please everyone.

I've actually read that Moore et al had originally offered the character of Elosha (probably would've had a different name) way back at the beginning to Richard Hatch ("Tom Zarek").
 
No responses at all to my thoughts? I posted them. Look back a page. Everyone must've thought it was the post prior to it and didn't realize it was new. So look back at it and let the opinions fly.

I personally don't see the issues some of you have with this show. I love it. Yes, Adama staying behind does show her how much he loves her. He says it to Lee, "Why are you doing this?" "Because I can't live without her." When the fleet jumped there would've been no one there to tell them where they went. Adama stayed behind in hopes that she would find her way back so that someone could tell them where to go. Guess that bit was subtle.

This show does very little that's wasted. 98% of it will come back up...this I firmly believe. It's all leading up the end.

CE
 
Your thoughts about the ending are more interesting to me than your guess on the final cylon. So you think that they will find Earth sometime in our future with little or no humans left on it? That is certainly the sort of grim thing BSG is capable of. I think finding Earth in present time is far more unlikely because its sort of cliche and has been done. Finding Earth in the past makes even less sense. So I had assumed they would find Earth sometime in the near future, but never really thought about its condition. To me that would be a huge letdown. After all the visions and whatnot to find Earth and how important it is, to get there and have there be....nothing...is kind of a cop-out to me. If, that is what they end up doing. I think Olmos's words about the ending not being a happy one could mean a LOT of things and is very cryptic. I think none of us expected sunshine and happiness at the end of the series, but I would expect something with hope for the future....something more than just a couple of new Cylon-Hybrid kids. We will see though.

The reason I'm not so much into the final cylon is that I've realized that they had no idea about this "Final Five" thing from the start of the series, and they clearly didn't have someone in mind for the last one early in the series either, so to me it isn't some super-developed mystery. It was added as the show moved along, so if Coddle turns out to be the one....well...he isn't any different to me than any of the other guesses.
 
I agree most of them will not survive, A few will enough to again start another cycle of tragedy, they forget the past and they repeat their mistakes and they been doing it for god knows how many cycles, the same mistakes endlessly like a program loop, it would also make plausible the notion that they will be going to Earth of the future. Dr Cottle, Why not, him being the 5th does have a certain logic about it.
 
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The only way I can imagine the revelation of the 5th cylon to be truly emotionally satisfying is for it to make sense with the scene where Xena Warrior Cylon sees that vision or whatever it was, learns of the final five, looks at the last one, recognizes it, and is super-apologetic.

Assuming she has that reaction at the hitherto unrevealed cylon (I'm not sure exactly why I'm making that assumption, though), it being the Doc wouldn't make any sense. Frankly, I don't know who would make sense, but for some reason my brain keeps insisting that moment is really, really important.
 
...but for some reason my brain keeps insisting that moment is really, really important.

Because it should be really, really important. As to whether it's going to have it's full level of significance or if it was just hype-of-the-moment, well, I guess we'll find out sooner or later.
 
Assuming she has that reaction at the hitherto unrevealed cylon (I'm not sure exactly why I'm making that assumption, though), it being the Doc wouldn't make any sense. Frankly, I don't know who would make sense, but for some reason my brain keeps insisting that moment is really, really important.

Though I agree that this is important, I still think she was apologizing to Anders. So, Doc could be the last one. I don't know what I think about them saying, "nobody is on mark that I've seen." Messages boards I've visited have pretty much implicated each and every person, so where are they getting their info? Someone has to be right.
 

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