Galactica Season 4 (Spoilers Within)

[GKarsEye]

Why would she apologize to Anders? Did I miss something?

 

[Alluveal]

Season 2.5, I think, the episode "Downloaded," she held a gun to his head and almost pulled the trigger. He would have died if not for Caprica Six smashing a piece of concrete over her head.

http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/Downloaded

ACT 3

Number Three cruelly toys with Anders, putting his gun on the ground and daring him to take it. When Valerii asks her to stop, Number Three retorts that Valerii is a broken machine that thinks she's human, but isn't.

ACT 4

Anders grabs his gun and tries to escape, shooting at Number Three before Valerii knocks the gun out of his hands. The gun lands near Three. As she is about to shoot Anders, Caprica-Six hits her over the head with a large rock of stone, then bashes Three in the head again, killing her.

Now, some have argued that she didn't do enough to him to warrant the, "I'm sorry, I didn't know" reaction from D'Anna. Others have speculated she was saying "Sorry" to Tigh who I believe she helped pluck his eye out--or this was eluded to though never seen on the show.

That's my theory. I could be wrong, though. I don't know who else she has REALLY wronged, truth be told, unless you include the whole human race.

 

[Recoil]

See that is the shit that bothers me about this, and maybe B5 spoiled me. If they reveal the final Cylon, and it ISN'T someone whom d'anna should apologize to, then that is weak storytelling. And if they do end up doing a TV movie or two, and in THAT they show what D'Anna did and why...thats still weak story telling because they are giving that info after the fact.

It is like JMS said, if you take a gun off the gun rack over the fireplace in Act 3, it had better have been visible there in Act 2.

BSG is feeling more and more like X-Files in that fashion these days. I guess we will see...but I'm not convinced yet.

Anders is the only explanation that makes sense to me thus far about who she was apologizing to, given on-screen evidence.

 

[Alluveal]

I guess I don't see why it's such a big deal about her apologizing? Why does it have to be the final cylon? She didn't fall to her knees and beg forgiveness and grovel. She just said, "forgive me, I didn't know." I think what she did to him warrants that.

And again, unless they do flashbacks to show her really REALLY screwing over someone, then it's being made bigger than it is.

 

[Garovorkin]

Im getting the feeling that the the revelation of the 5th Cylon is going to be a very anti climatic event, but I could be wrong on this one, we'll see. A possibility, If its is in fact Doctor Cottle, and he has an attonement Issue, what if he is in fact the One who helped precipitate the Cylon Rebellion? I know its reach but why not?

 

[Garovorkin]

Think about it, It one of the themes of the show is penance for ones actions, would it not stand to reason that him healing sick human beings is a way of making up for past actions, I keep think of a comment that he made to Sharon while she was giving Birht, He said couldn't not the Cylons have improved on the design of the Reproductive system? That comment seems insignificant, but is it? Im just think out loud, It may well be nothing.

 

[GKarsEye]

Thanks again, Alluveal.

I'm not proving or even arguing that who Xena saw has to be the final cylon. I'm coming from the perspective of what would "feel" right, I guess. If it turns out she was apologizing to Anders then... bleh. Yes, I know "bleh" isn't much of an argument, but... bleh.

If she indeed was involved w/ taking out Tigh's eye (this is the first I've heard of it that I can remember), then it would play better.

My gut tells me that the final cylon is the old models. Now I know that's silly, since the final cylon can't be an entire model(s), I dunno, something feels really significant about the fact that all of a sudden they're given free will of a sort, and Baltar was talking religion with one of them for some reason (note: something not even mentioned in this thread yet, and exactly the kind of "minor" thing in the background of a show like this that would play out better).

 

[Alluveal]

Ya know, GKE, I recall getting it from somewhere that D'Anna was there when Tigh's eye was removed. I just don't know. I'll have to wait until I rewatch some and see for sure.

I don't know what else she would have said to Anders if she saw he was one of the final 5: uhh, oops, dude, my bad. Hahaha. Who knows. I don't know how big of a moment it was supposed to be, that's the thing. It came across as bigger than it really is. That's my guess.

Either way, looks like next episode we'll see a whole lot of space poo hit the fan.

 

[Recoil]

My gut tells me that the final cylon is the old models. Now I know that's silly, since the final cylon can't be an entire model(s), I dunno, something feels really significant about the fact that all of a sudden they're given free will of a sort, and Baltar was talking religion with one of them for some reason (note: something not even mentioned in this thread yet, and exactly the kind of "minor" thing in the background of a show like this that would play out better).

I like that theory, and will adopt it as my own.

 

[Garovorkin]

Knowing this show, I agree that little conversion that Baltar had with the centurian, Is going to have some kind of consequence, might even result in a rebellion of the machine models i think the Cylon Civil war is about to get even more complicated and nasty.

 

[Garovorkin]

Lets see we have dead wrecked and Radioactive planet, Yep it must be Earth. Whether its in the past or Future , difficult to say, Rather cruel ending to all of their Journey.

 

[vacantlook]

So, despite their use of the word "soon", I take it this is the midseason break leaving the show to not return until next year that I think it was CE said many posts back? I enjoyed the episode; I can't think of anything specifically to comment about yet, so I'll leave it at that for now.

 

[Garovorkin]

To dark and ending for my taste, and the sad part is that it is not the final ending.

 

[vacantlook]

That it's not the final ending is why it's not too dark for me; if this was the entire conclusion forever of the show, it'd make me roll my eyes, but there's still more to come so I'm ok.

 

[Garovorkin]

They get to Earth find radioactivity, a ruined city which might or might be new York and no 13th tribe? Thats pretty bleak to me and the scary part is that its not the ending and I don't think they have hit bottom. I think a crying towel ending might be in the cards here.

 

[Recoil]

That it's not the final ending is why it's not too dark for me; if this was the entire conclusion forever of the show, it'd make me roll my eyes, but there's still more to come so I'm ok.

Agreed. And while a lot of people guessed that they would find an "Earth" in ruins, it became pretty obvious they were going to do that right as they found it. You have this happy apparent peace with the Cylons, then they jump to "Earth" and everyone starts partying and there is all this happy triumphant build-up before they even took a sensor reading. You could just TELL the writers were leading up for a change in momentum. As soon as the cheering started before anything was shown, you could just sense the dark ending (or mid season break).

This has really been the ONLY episode so far this year that I really enjoyed to watch all the way through. So random thoughts:

Man Torri is a bitch, isn't she? The little turncoat was the first to bail on the human race and hop aboard the base star. She didnt even care to wait to do it in secret, she just made up an excuse so she could go aboard right away.

Makes me think back to Sol's great speech when he found out he was a Cylon. About him being loyal to the "old man" and he is still going to be a member of the fleet. By far one of the best moments in the series for me. There was that same feeling in this ep when he came forward, criticized himself for not doing it right away, but that he came forward to offer himself as a hostage to protect the humans on the Base Star. Funny how Sol, Anders, and Tyrol's loyalties didn't really change (although Tyrol is doing some self-searching, he seems still loyal especially to his baby) but Torri was the one who seems all about her new Cylonness.

Adama's line during his breakdown with Sol was also interesting. "How can that be? When I met you 30 years ago you had hair! Cylons dont age"

I'm really convinced if it really is a "persona" of some sort that was activated by that signal in their existing personality...that they really aren't "machines" like the other cylons.

While Starbuck running to stop the execution was rather dumb (ever hear of picking up a squak box?) the scene was still pretty intense, and I liked how it was done.

Funny how the ruins on "Earth" matched those in the book, about the Aurora temple...or something to that effect.

So...major questions:

1) Is it really our Earth?

2) If not, well then it at least appears to be the apparent former home of the 13th tribe given how the ruins looked like those in the Pithia book.

3) If it is our Earth, past, present, or future? Looks to be our future since there are buildings. Ive always wondered, though, that in this series if the fleet finds earth and they settle there, would they (as the opening line in the original series went) end up being the FOREFATHERS of the Egyptians, etc? So basically its way in our past and we are decendants of theirs.

4) Who is the final Cylon?

I find I care less and less about #4. I've always been more interested in the 13th tribe story and what has been going on there. I hope at least they bring that to a close with some satisfaction.

As far as the FINAL series ending....if it ends up being dark and "artistic" that will be a huge letdown for me. Just because everyone thinks the series has had a "gritty and dark" feel to it the whole time doesn't mean it has to end depressing. If it does, I'll probably feel like I wasted a good chunk of time on the series overall, and won't feel tempted to rewatch it. That i when I'll feel that RDM has failed. To me the mark of a great series is that I have to want to watch it again, and again. Like B5. Like Firefly. Like Farscape even. How well the final group of episodes go, and how well they wrap up what I feel are the important threads will determine whether this series ends up being great, or just another show that started good with promise then lost its way and fell to the wayside.

Guess we find out in 2009. January is my guess.

 

[Recoil]

They get to Earth find radioactivity, a ruined city which might or might be new York and no 13th tribe? Thats pretty bleak to me and the scary part is that its not the ending and I don't think they have hit bottom. I think a crying towel ending might be in the cards here.

The city looked like no city on our Earth at all. The buildings looked like the buildings on the original Caprica. And the ruins they were all standing in looked like those in the Pithia book. It very much looked like ruins of the 13th tribe's civilization, but at no time did I ever feel like this was "our" Earth.

 

[Alluveal]

3) If it is our Earth, past, present, or future? Looks to be our future since there are buildings. Ive always wondered, though, that in this series if the fleet finds earth and they settle there, would they (as the opening line in the original series went) end up being the FOREFATHERS of the Egyptians, etc? So basically its way in our past and we are decendants of theirs.

I'm really leaning toward this as well.

I thought the episode, overall, was a little . . . meh. It felt hollow and rushed, glossing over some important opportunities (always a complaint of mine about Galactica in the past.)

I have to say that Tigh was the heart of this episode. I also have to admit that I fast-forwarded through the whole Starbuck running through the halls and the whole stand-off. It was not tense, but annoying.

Tori is a real snatch. Pardon my profanity. So, if she fesses up to airlocking Callie, is she covered under that "amnesty" deal? That won't stop Tyrol from doing something about it.

Interesting: D'Anna wanted "the four," not five. The "four in the fleet." She made that pretty clear. One is missing. One is not currently in the fleet that she knows of? Or what? Weird.

I hope they decide to explore the whole "Tigh, Tory, Anders and Tyrol are all cylons" angle, else it's just gonna piss me off. We were given no opportunity to delve into that at all. Granted, I'm aware that if the writer's strike hadn't ended when it did, this might have been our season final. So, I hope they realize what needs to be done.

 

[vacantlook]

Yeah, Tory continues to annoy me. I would have loved her character so much more if she had loyalty to Roslin, like if she had handed her the medication and had said, "Madam President, you need to know that I'm a cylon, but I am going to do whatever I can to not let them kill you." Of course, given how they've developed Tory since she found out she's a cylon, that would be out of character for her as she's really turned into a strange, weird, psychotic, crazy person.

I'm glad that Starbuck trusted Anders enough to continue to check out the viper after he and Tyrol were cuffed away.

It would seem that it really is Earth in that Gaeta said that the constellations matched; I'm assuming that was referencing the zodiac revealed to the group when they were in the Tomb of Athena on Kobol. But then, the whole prophecy saying that the dying leader would lead them to Earth without ever seeing it themself would seem to make it impossible for this to be Earth since Roslin's there.

With D'Anna's statement that only four of the five were in the fleet, I'm thinking maybe the final cylon is already on Earth and is the last surviving person living there and that the signal that activated the four and picked up on by the viper was sort of a distress call he or she sent out.

 

[Galahad]

Again I haven't seen this far forward...but is it not morelikely given the similarity in culutral references, that the colonials actually came from Earth in the first place and have simply forgotten because they have been away for so long and had no contact.

The cylons themselves say they have read the human race's texts and know more about colonial history than colonials do.

If the architecture is more in line with what we saw on Caprica,surely this lends even more credence to the idea.