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Fahrenheit 9/11 (SPOILERS)

Wow I don't know where to begin.

Firstly on your sex paradise Za ha Dum, you really bought in to the media message of selling you. That to be sucessful you have to have a nice car suit and so on to get women and so on. Well Honestly if you going to do that you mightest well save the money on the car and either go to your local red light district for some street walker, or take a plane ride to singapore where their younger and cheaper and legal. The quaility of Women are about the same but at least with the latter two you not fooling yourself.
Brasil is not really all that much of sex paradise they are more open and have custums diffrent. The First date in Brazil dose end in sex for the most part. But if you don't have good personaility or any of those other quailities you listed its not going to get you anywhere even in Brazil.

Though taking a guess the three of you are 20 something Guys . Well a Breast an't that bad even though as much as the christian right will protest. [Much of it, not all of it being the media displaying the breasts as part of sexaulity and overhyping their purpose in our culture] But the question is where do you draw line? And you will always have to know where ever you draw that line people/media/tvshows are going to take it right up to the line or even cross it.

Swiftbiscuit I already knew about Northern irland being a Civil war, but for the most part its drawn on Irish Catholics vs Irish Protestestants, and British Desecentedents/settlers. And on those same lines it partaly polotical to get out of the UK.

Now another matter the fear, how dose exactly fear lead to homocidal Violence? Espicaly fear that stoked about in the 2ndary ussualy local tv media on the non big 3 local news programs , where "could you be targeted for" blank? and they go on some exspose of sudal timical programing. How dose that fear lead to someone going out to the street and shooting someone? Can see how that could lead to the prolifiration of Guns as for self defense, or what ever silly thing like Bomb shelters and safe rooms. And fear is not just American everyone has fear, why would that fear make Americans so much more violent than the British or the Japanase. You telling me the british media dosen't carry negative local stories about murderers , rapist that leads to the british to fear on something? I ve seen british all worried about the fact al quaeda just released something about the cease fire against the british has ended.

the violence and the violent Images. Japan is one of the least violent nations around but you can't quite tell that from their tv shows, Video games, and so on. Alot of the most violent stuff we get is importated from japan (Moore has even said this in your bowling for colombine movie so it must be true :LOL:). You meantion Wrestling , Wrestling in Japan is somewhat big but wrestling in Japan really has no story its about the fighting and not the personailities. Watch some japanase movies or anime or magna .

Now Tell me why is it Brasil Mexico and Estonia is so much more violent than America? according to those stats i shown before. Don't think they have the verysame american media that Moore rails against.
Though would have a question would like to see some compilation of how much of the violent crime is in Urban areas as opposed to rural areas in the usa.

Now also think you are a bit sterotyping the right religous view, think they are are anti violence on tv anti swearing, anti sex and all. It just sex is shown to be bigger of the darn Janet jackson incident and the media personal bias.

oh well i need to go for now but put these out there .
 
Now another matter the fear, how dose exactly fear lead to homocidal Violence?
"Fear is the path to the dark side. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering." -- Yoda.
And fear is not just American everyone has fear, why would that fear make Americans so much more violent than the British or the Japanase.
I'm not sure if anyone has ever done a study comparing American media to the media of other countries. It may be that all media, all over the world generates the fear that American media generates, I don't know. Even if that is true, however, no other country on the planet has the sheer quantity of media sources that bombard us, there's just no comparison. Now whether that explains why America is so violent is anyone's guess.

Frankly, I think America has been a violent country from the very beginning and we've remained a violent country ever since. It was born through violence, grown through violence and maintained through violence. In fact, I'm hard pressed to think of a single freedom in this country that wasn't earned through violence.

As far as the "ethnic mixing" theory goes, it sounds good, but it doesn't really explain some of our most violent periods, like the Civil War for instance (which had little, if anything, to do with slavery in the beginning). And it really doesn't explain our crime rate either, since (if I'm not mistaken) the majority of most crime in this country occurrs between people of the same race.
 
Now Tell me why is it Brasil Mexico and Estonia is so much more violent than America? according to those stats i shown before. Don't think they have the verysame american media that Moore rails against.
In our case (Estonia, that is), it seems to be mostly two major things: criminals killing each other (fighting for turf, revenge, debts etc) - these would mostly be the gun deaths.

The other main group is drinking buddies killing each other. Which happens a lot, alcohol being a very real problem around here. These are mostly stabbings and beatings though, since not that many people have firearms of any kind. (And people use knives, axes etc also in the countryside, where more people would have legal hunting weapons .. seems that in such cases, the drunk people don't really bother to go looking for the gun, a knife is usually easier to grab and in better reach.)

I can't actually recall a single incident, at least from recent years, with someone killing someone on purpose with his own legal firearm. There have been a few accidental cases over the years, mostly by drunk members of the local paramilitary union (voluntary organisation, and IIRC they get guns from the union .. the control has become more strict in recent years though and not everyone is accepted and/or given a firearm).

The actual homicide numbers shouldn't be too high here .. the ratio to population is quite unpleasant though, yes.

So for reasons, among those that are not members of organised crime, it's first and foremost alcohol. Tends to turn people violent way too often in these areas. I don't think media has much to do with this, more the traditions and habits (and Estonians and Russians, different from each other in most other traditions and habits, seem to share this trait).
 
However, WRESTLING, for instance, I believe should be PROHIBITED. It is a cult of violence. Guns should be PROHIBITED as well. Only police and military could have them.

Ah, but at what point do we stray over into tyranny? When do we cross the line, restricting people's freedoms for their own good? And where will it end? As Galadriel says in the Lord of the Rings, regarding the good she could do with the One Ring, "That is where it would begin."

I understand your reasoning, of course, and oftentimes I sympathize. It would be far better, however, if people had the choice of acting in these ways and simply chose otherwise, acting in better ways.

Yes, yes, I know. I'm an idealistic dreamer.

(Also, Za_Ha-Dum, a word to the wise? Your habit of sprinkling words in CAPITALS may ruffle a few feathers here, and actually most anywhere; I believe it's the net equivalent of shouting.)

In the immortal words of my mother, "People are a problem." Easy answers are so infrequent, so rare, and for the rest we're left in a darkening maze. Where do we go? What do we do? In the end we must all find our own answers, and they will almost certainly be as different as we all are.
 
KoshFan,

Very wise answer. I know that we will never be able to satisfy every single human being. We have different ambitions, pride, vanity, etc. Therefore our values can be quite different. That´s why, for our society of the east, it is very difficult to understand those who kill themselves in terrorism attack, or demand women be completely covered and cannot talk to strangers.

About the CAPITAL letter I always forget to avoid using it. But in my interpretation it is only to EMPHASIZE a view or word.

Regarding Crazybil issues:

Brasil and many other underdeveloped countries are violent basicly because it has too much poverty. No jobs, too much drug, corrupted police. But just as said by our albanian collegue, you will seldom see people killing each other by private weapons.

About the stuff of the Ferrari, good looking, money. You misunderstood my point. I am not this way, but I am just ilustrating how shallow is becoming our society. And you cannot deny that these things are estimulated by the capitalism way of life.

Have a nice day...
 
Speaking of which, those bastards forgot to deliver some packages that were sent to me. Not lost or misplaced, but simply forgot. How the hell do you forget to do the only thing that you were created for? Reminds me of the time they didn't have cheese at Pizza Hut.
 
You say that the movies "facts" have been "confirmed by a variety of
>respected sources." Can you name even one of those respected sources

Well, let's see...there are the documents provided by the Pentagon concerning
Bush's military service (since you identify yourself as a member of the USAF
you must put some credibility in the Pentagon), the Washington Post which
stated that Bush spent about 42% of the time prior to 9/11 on vacation, a
statistic that has not been challenged by anyone, and there's film -- unedited
-- of Bush that speaks volumes, and nobody's said it's CGI.

You say that --

>5% is out right lies, 35% are distortions of the facts,
>and 30% is analysis of of those lies and distortions.

-- but you don't say what those lies are. You cite very specific breakdowns,
so you could perhaps delineat those figures for us a bit more. Becaue if
you're going to be mathematical in your allegation, I'm going to ask you to be
equally mathematical in showing your homework. Specifiy what those are,
please.

Because for all the complaints from some quarters about the film, and the
general, vague statements of "it's filled with lies," nobody has yet come forth
to specify what those falsehoods *are*. I woud love to hear your specificities
here.

Or are you just repeating what others have said to you?

jms

Taken from JMS web page.
I know, I know....People will say that JMS is respectful but he is not always right. That´s true, but thanks to his inteligence, broad view, good writer, we are here gathered in this WEB page. So, I usually agree with JMS point of view. Specially cause he develops good arguments.

Take care all

PS: Have you guys heard about the issue with Whoopi Goldberg and Bush/Cheney?
 
I'm not sure about details, but Whoopie Goldberg was at a fund raiser for the, I think, and made a joke that was considered very offensive, I gather. A Bush joke.
 
I don't think I have; what's the what?
I don't know details, but she lost her gig doing Slim Fast commercials because of anti Bush comments.

Obviously we no longer have the right of freedom of speech. :confused:
 
For those who are refusing to watch this movie, see below one of the hundreds statements from people all over USA:

DELAWARE

Wilmington - "I have never seen a theater more packed. They had to run the film in 2 different theaters at the same time, because there was no way all of us would fit in one. There were people of every race- white, black, middle eastern, asian... and political preferences - Republican, Democrat, some people from the Green Party, conservatives and liberals, all of us... we were all coming together as Americans to find some answers as to what our president has been doing for 4 years... The film ended, and for the first time ever, people started to clap, one by one. And then, Mr. Moore, they started to stand. And pretty soon, the entire theater was in a standing ovation. As we walked out, I saw people hugging each other and crying. I saw men standing there solemnly, thinking. I heard women in the bathroom telling each other about their sons and daughters, brothers and sisters, aunts and uncles being shipped off to Iraq. When has this ever happened at a movie theater? And I saw a lot of people, even in the parking lot, still in tears, puffy-eyed and shaking their heads, no doubt thinking exactly what I was- What has happened to our country? My mother said, "I just don't know what's gonna happen." And my sister said, "That's the thing. We all have to stop waiting for things to happen. We have to make them happen." And my best friend, who is a Republican, said, "There is no way I can elect Bush again. Not after seeing all the lies." And I, who still couldn't stop crying, was silent, thinking about those congressmen with no children inIraq. And into the night those bloody images of the war haunted me, and I found it difficult to fall asleep. And maybe, if your film had the same effect on everyone that it did on me, we can save America from George W. Bush.Thank you for a life-changing experience." -- CM
 
And it's not just people in America that are interested in Fahrenheit 9/11. If my city library is anything to go by, there is a great deal of interest here as well. Just after. I read Stupid White Men when it first came out. I had not really heard of Michael Moore at that stage, but the title sounded interesting, so I put in a reserve at the library, and got it within a week. A few months later, I had heard a great deal more about MM,and SWM was coming out in paperback, and the library had ordered about fiften copies. I thought 'what the hell, I'll read it again'. So, I put in a reserve, and as Dude, Where's My Country? was also about to hit the shelves, I ordered that as well.
This time, it was six months before I got them. Even, the special 'bestseller' copies that the library loans out for $3 a week are all out. And both copies of Bowling for Columbine that the library has, are going out of the library as fast as they are returned, and they're on the bestseller lists as well.
Well, another couple of weeks, and I can go and see what all the fuss is about.

I saw a trailer for 'Fahrenheit 9/11', on the Net, and one scene showed John Ashcroft singing - I think it was something about 'soaring with the eagles'. I have heard the the esteemed Attourney General did actually sing on national TV. But then, I have heard a few other rather weird stories about Ashcroft and other Bushies, so I tend to take what I hear and read with a bucket of salt. Is there actually a scene with Ashcroft singing? Does America actually have A Singing Attourney General?
 
Yes, there is actually a clip of Ashcroft singing! That is a lot less strange than many things he's done, like having a curtain cover over the statue of justice, because she has bare breasts. Also, I've read that when he is going somewhere, his advance people are under orders to make sure he will never encounter any calico cats, because he believes they are tools of the Devil! :eek: :D :D
 

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