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Babylon 5 Books

Actually it is in inability to read properly here which is the problem.As it was clearly a question (that the sentance began with what and ended in a question mark is a clue :) ) it can in no way be taken as a statement of fact.Due to the preceding sentence and the very nature of the discussion and this posters views on it I would say it was pretty obvious it was a sarcastic remark.

Exactly! Thanks. I'm glad somebody got it. ;)


I really don't understand the rudeness on this thread just because somebody disagrees with others on a subject.By being patronizing and having the "if you're not clever enough to agree with me you must be really dumb attitude" doesn't help either.

Making things up to attempt to ridicule posters ideas is also rather lame.


SOP, for some. I've had it with the NYC attitude: they're right, even when they screw up, ...and I'm somehow always wrong (My fault they screwed up?!? :rolleyes: ), I'm always misinformed, and I'm somehow always asking for the world. They'll defend Del Rey and the publishing industry to their dying breath.


Come back and tell us how you feel after you've seen Mac make essentially the same rant 15 or 20 times on various systems. Same rant, same ill-informed 'suggestions' and still railing against something that's been over and done with for *years*. Over and over and over.

Jan

See? "Ill-informed." Well, I'm sorry I've inconvenienced you. I'm sorry that I think the publishing industry should have done things a little differently. I'm sorry I have disagreed with the local gods of the publishing industry, who are always right, and always know better me, even when they don't. I'm sorry for suggesting that somebody think outside the box, try something different, and try to reach more people if they indeed want the sales they say they want.

Most of all, I'm sorry I've wasted so much time here responding to Amy and JoeD, the masters of straw man construction. No more. :mad:
 
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Since when did sentances start with the word "and"?Since when would you put a comma before using or after using the word "and"?Since when do we use -- instead of commas?

Hi, crazyhorse.

There's nothing inherently incorrect about beginning a sentence with "and." It's generally discouraged when you are learning grammar as a young schoolchild because of the tendency to use it improperly.

Commas aren't subject to the same hard and fast usage rules as other markings. Many quite learned people consider their use subjective, to indicate a pause in thought. That's how I was using it.

There's no way to type a proper em dash on a message board, so two hyphens is the generally accepted plain text substitution.

Should of is perfectly acceptable in Scots,which is my native language.The British government now accepts Scots as a regional language and has recognised it as such under the European Charter for Regional or Minority Languages.

Actually, I'm a Gaelic speaker (mostly Irish, but I also have a little Scots), but I presume you mean Scots English rather than Scots Gaelic. In any case, "should of" is not considered proper in any variety of English. The contraction "should've" is what you meant to say, and it is short for "should have." "Should of" doesn't have any meaning.

I forgot an apostrophe,guilty as charged.I should be hung drawn and quartered.

Certainly not hung, drawn and quartered. I don't understand why people who choose to speak and write correctly, and to help others do so, are constantly subjected to such abuse! I'm generally pleased when someone corrects me on something other than an obvious typo. I'd rather know the correct form of expression than go on using the incorrect one.

I wonder if American spelling annoys people too :p

Not in America. :) And, you won't find me correcting any legitimate regionalisms like "colour" versus "color," or "trainers" versus "sneakers"; I do know the difference between regional peculiarities and incorrect usage.

Any International message board will have several styles of writing on them.A certain amount of leeway should always be made for misunderstandings and when they are cleared up there is no reason to then blame the person who wrote the post for your misunderstanding instead of reacting on what you now know was meant.

Sure, but when writing online, one must make a special effort to be clear. I don't see what's wrong with my backing up Joe when I'd misread KoshN's note in exactly the same way; and I wasn't the only one. And I'm certainly free to disagree with someone who says, "You're an idiot who has reading comprehension problems; this is what I meant," if in fact I understood it differently. If one person misunderstands you, it might be a simple difference of perspective; if five or ten or twenty people misunderstand you, you have to start examining your own form of expression.

As for expecting everyone to know what has been posted on several forums over the period of several years,well that is just crazy.

Huh? I've no idea what you're accusing me of with this comment.

The experts have said it is unviable to advertise the books on television.It is then revealed that they were advertised on tv.That means the experts were wrong about that at least :p

No, it just means that some publisher did advertise on television; it doesn't tell us anything about the efficacy of such an effort. Unless you have sales figures pre-dating the tv ad campaign, and sales figures following it, we can't determine this.

It was suggested by a poster that KoshN wanted the entire publishing industry to change how it works.This was then seized upon and used as means to ridicule his points.He never even suggested it in the first place yet gets blamed for it :LOL:

Yes, I said that. That was my opinion. And it's a valid opinion based on the information presented. I don't see what the problem is. People have opinions and express them. That's how conversation happens. It was a touch hyperbolic, but in my opinion, what KoshN was suggesting was not feasible based on the reality of the situation with regard to small niche book publishing. And a tie-in book series to a moderately successful science fiction television series is just about as 'niche' as it gets.

Stop bullying the lad :LOL:

I think KoshN is perfectly capable of handling me himself. In fact, I know he is. We've been quite friendly when we're not arguing about publishing, so I'm sure he'd tell me if he's feeling bullied.

If you have decided that you have said everything you want on a subject then say no more.If others want to carry on discussing something then let them.I will decide myself when I feel something is done and dusted,I will not let anybody else tell me.

Um... (looking around in confusion)

Did I tell you, or anyone, that they should stop talking about this? No, in fact, if you look back through the thread you'll see that I said that I was done talking to KoshN about it, and that I was pleased to let him have the last word. I've stuck by that; I've only replied to others since that point.

Amy
 
Elron Hubbard used to advertise Scientology books on TV all the time. Now he's dead, and all sorts of wacko actors have become Scientologists. See how dangerous it is to advertise books on TV? It should probably be illegal, before we have another such cult!

OOOPS! Too late! I just remembered that they advertise the "Left Behind" books on TV too. We're doomed! :eek: :eek: ;) :LOL:
 
The experts have said it is unviable to advertise the books on television.It is then revealed that they were advertised on tv.That means the experts were wrong about that at least :p

Sorry CH, as I have now said on at least three occasions in this very thread, the only TV "adverts" were for the original series of novels which were published by Channel 4, and they consisted of nothing more complicated than a still shot of the books with an accompanying "a series of books based on the show is available at all good book stores" from the continuity announcer before going on to say "and now Hollyoaks" ... or whatever the hell was on next.

The "advertising" was free - Channel 4 were using their own airtime to advertise their own product! Apples and oranges.

It was suggested by a poster that KoshN wanted the entire publishing industry to change how it works.This was then seized upon and used as means to ridicule his points.He never even suggested it in the first place yet gets blamed for it :LOL:

That also isn't what I said. The point I made was that, as far as I could see, Del Rey had done nothing different in their promotion of the trilogies than any other publisher had done for similar books (i.e. other TV tie-ins). That being the case, Del Rey cannot be singled out for ire, and KoshN's criticism (valid or otherwise) is a critique of how all publishers promote this type of literature (and I use that word advisedly).

JMS raised some concerns about the length of time they had taken to be released, and how that was done but as an end-user, I do not recall any more general or comprehensive promotional coverage for any other series of TV tie-in books. Even Star Wars novels don't get big media promotion when they are released.
 
First of I'll start with this :)

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/and#Etymology_3

It is incorrect to start a sentence with and.The example of where it is used is in a play,which like poetry,has its own rules.You do not use commas before or after and.

Nope. Lousy writing. Learn to express yourself more clearly and you'll be understood better. But let's be clear that the problem is on your side of the keyboard. And as long as you simply have no idea what you're talking about, it doesn't matter how well you express youself because you still aren't going to make any sense, persuade anyone of anything or be anything but what you are on this subject - a carnk and a crashing bore, with all the charm and verve of flat-earthers, Bigfoot hunters and devotees of the Atlantis Legend.

As Amy said, feel free to have the last word. (Or several hundred endlessly repeated words.) Maybe someone will even read them.

Regards,

Joe

AnlaShokGrey this is exactly what you was backing up.Not just that you had also misread it but an insulting reason for misunderstanding it.

I do know how you made the mistake,there was no need to show me in bold face.Bold face,like italics do change emphasis in a sentence I do agree.However as a sentence it is still not a statement of fact but a question,denoted by the question mark no matter what emphasis you put on it.

Er, no. The publishing industry doesn't work by advertising its books (no apostrophe in that "its"), and it doesn't even always sell books by advertising them. In fact, most of their books -- the industry term would be "backlist" -- aren't sold through advertising of any kind whatsoever.

Are you really trying to tell me that publishers print books and tell nobody that they exist?Even if you can just find the book listed on Amazon that is a type of advertising.

Come back and tell us how you feel after you've seen Mac make essentially the same rant 15 or 20 times on various systems. Same rant, same ill-informed 'suggestions' and still railing against something that's been over and done with for *years*. Over and over and over.

Jan

This was the point I made about multiple forums over a period of years being needed to follow some of this thread.For someone who doesn't use these other forums or hasn't been here for years this thread does seem to go over the top.

Hi, crazyhorse.


Commas aren't subject to the same hard and fast usage rules as other markings. Many quite learned people consider their use subjective, to indicate a pause in thought. That's how I was using it.

There's no way to type a proper em dash on a message board, so two hyphens is the generally accepted plain text substitution.


Actually, I'm a Gaelic speaker (mostly Irish, but I also have a little Scots), but I presume you mean Scots English rather than Scots Gaelic. In any case, "should of" is not considered proper in any variety of English. The contraction "should've" is what you meant to say, and it is short for "should have." "Should of" doesn't have any meaning.

Amy

I know what should have and should've mean and how to use them.I was thinking shoud af though :)

No there isn't a L :)

There is rules for commas and you don't use them with and.Seriously.

Your sentence would of been good if you simply put commas in place of the dashes.I might make a lot of mistakes but I do actually know what I'm talking about.

I speak Scots not scots english which is more about dialect.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scots_language

As you can see it is an official language,just like Ulster Scots is.

I have took english people to my home village and have had to translate for them constantly.For example I've never heard an englishman say dreich.

As for official grammar of this legally recognised language you will find there is none,same as there is no rules for spelling :)

I've already posted a link to Scots grammar and its usage.

Well that's my get out of jail free card :p

Should of is actually bad grammar,I wont say otherwise but it is at least in common use.

You must admit that using bad grammar while trying to pull someone over their's is rather ironic.I have no objections to being corrected on grammar,spelling or anything else.However when it is pulled and a teacher jumps in claiming to hate such mistakes while completely ignoring your own from the post she quoted then it is not going to be ignored.Especially as it seems my post was the only one singled out for this.

If you want we can go through the thread and correct everbodies mistakes :devil:

Or does Elenopa want to try and tell me she teaches childeren to begin sentences with and? :LOL:

More important than grammar are the points being made which seemed to be ignored in favour of petty point making.

I found this a shame as I quite liked the topic and was interested in peoples opinions and thoughts on the matter and to how future B5 products could and will be publicised.However I would be wary of giving any opion as the chances are it will just be ridiculed because I haven't worked in publishing,a book shop or a library.

I have regulary bought books for over 30 years now.I get books for my birthday and Christmas.People ask me if I want something different or if I don't get bored with the same stuff all the time.

The answer is no ;)

Oh and my spelling is atrocious.I can't even think on how words sound because I give everything dutch sounds and the crazy buggers have a different alphabet :rolleyes:



I also knew it to be too good to be true to think I'll ever get the last word :)
 
Garibaldi I'm sorry if I got your TV adverts points wrong.I guilty of mixing up posts :eek:



In the UK it is quite common to see TV tie in books advertisied on the television.Is this sort of thing not possible in the U.S.?

I never see it done in Holland but I feel less importance is put in reading anyway.

You have to pay to lend books from the library here :eek:
 
Just out of curiosity, Crazyhorse...what exactly is your purpose in prolonging this? It's not as if KoshN needs your defense, you know.

Amy, Joe and I have *mainly* been making the point that ranting and raving over the supposed failure of Del Rey to advertise in a way KoshN would approve *several years after the fact* is a waste of time but that he continues to do so. Now, if KoshN wants to write to Mongoose and instruct that small publisher on how they really need to advertise in mainstream publications when they publish their novels, that might actually have some effect. I doubt it, but at least it would make more sense than railing against ancient history.

So, like I said...what's your point, really?

Jan
 
The point is it's conversation.

Exactly highlights my point about people deciding a conversation or topic is over though.Why not close the thread:p

Or did you not even noticed I answered several direct questions.Just being polite and making conversation.

It is a waste of time speculating about anything being different in the past.Your point is?

Now more to the point is why you cannot seem to be able to except the fact that some people might of wanted to discuss the subject further.This is just petty bickering.

For example how did TV advertising effect sales in the UK?It would be interesting to see some figures.

I was also interested in the way that conventions advertised this and the other points put forward.

All I want is some information and the right to ask a few questions and put forward a point of view.

:angel:
 
In the UK it is quite common to see TV tie in books advertisied on the television.Is this sort of thing not possible in the U.S.?

Possible, certainly. Likely? Not very. The difference, in this instance at least, is that Channel 4 published the books and advertised on their own station. Effectively, free advertising though one division may have paid another division. Here in the US, none of the TV stations that accept advertising are government supported and if any of them are involved in publishing I never heard of it. Advertising on any of the major stations at a reasonable hour (ie: not 3:00 AM) would cost thousands, even up to hundreds of thousands of dollars. That kind of cost is seldom worthwhile unless the publisher *already* expects the book to be a runaway bestseller. That's maximizing revenue. For things like the B5 books, it's a risk and, as stated before, risk isn't something that advertising agencies are fond of.

Jan
 
The point is it's conversation.

Exactly highlights my point about people deciding a conversation or topic is over though.Why not close the thread:p
There's conversation and there's baiting and most of your input in this thread *feels* like the latter. As for closing the thread, you'd need to address that question to a moderator.

Jan
 
Channel 4 is not Goverment supported.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Channel_4

I am not the one being rude which is considered to be baiting.

I don't understand why people with no interest in this topic have to repeatedly say so.

You wouldn't look if you wasn't interested :p


Don't make me rude,you wouldn't like me when I'm rude.
(Old Crazyhorse saying :p )
 
There's conversation and there's baiting and most of your input in this thread *feels* like the latter. As for closing the thread, you'd need to address that question to a moderator.

Jan


<Inserting Levity>

Why are you so surprised Jan? He is a CrazyHorse. One would expect him to be beating dead ones ;)
 
Looking at the thread - ye gods! People, chill out. Stop being nasty and stop picking holes in each others' grammar. (I'm typing this in a hotel lobby, on a table too low so my arms are resting on my knees, it's 10.00 in the evening, I've had some beer, so my typing ability is very poor right now, and I've had to retype a lot of words in this email) Bad email writing is a fact of life, get over it.

Just thought I would say - I am in London at the moment for a meeting, staying overnight. I popped in to Forbidden Planet on Shaftesbury Avenue (a specialist fantasy and SI-Fi shop). They have Legions of Fire I and II on the shelves, but of course no volume III. It is interesting how, as in most other bookshops there is a big Star Trek section, but no separate B5 section. How did ST get so bug that? In the UK, B5 was very well received and thought of - its complexity fitting in very well with a British audience. I am sad that bookshop here never really picked up on that and exploited a potential market - but then I have no expertise in book retailing so perhaps this only my naivetee at work.

Anyway - I shall continue searching.

Donald
 
Looking at the thread - ye gods! People, chill out. Stop being nasty and stop picking holes in each others' grammar. (I'm typing this in a hotel lobby, on a table too low so my arms are resting on my knees, it's 10.00 in the evening, I've had some beer, so my typing ability is very poor right now, and I've had to retype a lot of words in this email) Bad email writing is a fact of life, get over it.

Just thought I would say - I am in London at the moment for a meeting, staying overnight. I popped in to Forbidden Planet on Shaftesbury Avenue (a specialist fantasy and SI-Fi shop). They have Legions of Fire I and II on the shelves, but of course no volume III. It is interesting how, as in most other bookshops there is a big Star Trek section, but no separate B5 section. How did ST get so bug that? In the UK, B5 was very well received and thought of - its complexity fitting in very well with a British audience. I am sad that bookshop here never really picked up on that and exploited a potential market - but then I have no expertise in book retailing so perhaps this only my naivetee at work.

Anyway - I shall continue searching.

Donald

Alright, THIS is my last post.

Donald, further up in this thread (Post #38, January 15th 07, 16:20 EST), I said that I HAVE Legions of Fire Book III for you. I found a copy. There's no need for you to continue searching. I thought I sent you a PM to this effect. If you can't see this post because maybe I'm on your Ignore List, I guess you lose out. <shrug> If you pass on it, there are some people over at http://www.jmsnews.com/Forums/ who also want it. However, you have first dibs.

I also have Legions of Fire Books I & II if anybody needs them.

The price for all of them is MSRP + actual postage costs, and I'm donating the proceeds minus the postage costs to my local library. I'm not making even a penny off of these.

If anybody is interested in these books, you can contact me by PM. ;)

If nobody wants 'em, and I went to the trouble to find 'em for nothing, I guess I'll just have extra copies. <shrug>

Oh, I guess there should be a time limit for Donald to contact me. If he hasn't said he wants Legions of Fire Book III by 11:59PM EST on Friday January 26th, Books I, II and III go to the next person.
 
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