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Worker Caste

M

Mondo Londo

Regular
How many Worker Caste people do we ever see or meet? How would we know?

I know Delenn introduced several when she assembled a new Grey Council, but they had hood over their heads, no?


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"What's up, Drakh?"

Michael Garibaldi
 
Dulann or Firell could be worker caste. Have their caste been mentioned in the movie?

As I understand, the Rangers are mainly Worker and Religious when they are Minbari at all. Though I expect after the Minbari Civil War, Warrior Caste once again took up membership in the Rangers.

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May the light of the Buddha, Dhamma and Sangha protect you.

May you all be well and happy, free from suffering, free from sickness.
 
Just which Minbari make up the worker caste, anyway? If it is literally everyone other than warriors and priests, then the VAST majority of Minbari are probably Worker Caste.

A doctor serving on a military ship, would that doctor be from the Warrior Caste or the Worker Caste? Could it be either?

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"The Bible is a book: it is a good book, but is is not the only book" - Inherit the Wind

"I do not believe that the same God who
has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use."—Galileo

hypatia@b5fan.b5lr.com
 
I believe we have seen quite many. They usually stay in the background, unless their position is requires the opposite.

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"We are the universe, trying to figure itself out.
Unfortunately we as software lack any coherent documentation."
-- Delenn
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by hypatia:
A doctor serving on a military ship, would that doctor be from the Warrior Caste or the Worker Caste? Could it be either?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Good question. I've always wondered what exactly makes a Minbari Worker Caste. My bet is that the majority of Minbari are Worker Caste for the simple fact that we always need something fixed and built!

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"I don't know why we are here, but I'm pretty sure that it is not in order to enjoy ourselves." -Ludwig Wittgenstein
blackstar@welivefortheone.b5lr.com | BlackStar's Gallery
 
Replying to the idea that religious and worker making up most of the Rangers. Since the Rangers fight, tradionally and historically the Warriors probably ran the Rangers. So I think that the Rangers operate under the warrior caste, thus it is this caste that decides how and when to undertake missions together with "Entil Zhah" . I think that over time the Rangers have spanned all castes. Now religious and worker can be part of the Rangers but take orders from the Warrior. I don't think that this is always the case because I seem to remember that the entire crew of Sheridan's first Whitestar was entirely religious. I think this was because the Warrior and Religious Castes weren't on all that great of terms.

As far as where the Workers are, I think most of the population of Minbari are made up of worker. Probably one of the reasons Delenn reformed the council to have 5 worker (instead of 3). There are also clans aside from castes, so I don't think you are born into a caste so much as you are born into a clan. Depending on the clan your from, you will be most likely to join the caste that your clan is most closely linked. (e.g. Windswords-Warrior, Moonstars-Worker) I'm also pretty sure that Minbari can choose on their own which caste they choose to serve in. And they are afforded the right to switch castes if they are unhappy.

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YOU ARE NOT READY FOR IMMORTALITY!
 
Worker, warrior, religious.

Go read some medieval history.
smile.gif


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channe@[url="http://cryoterrace.tripod.com"]cryoterrace[/url] | "Last one to kill a bad guy buys the beer." -apollo four forty
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BlackStar:
Good question. I've always wondered what exactly makes a Minbari Worker Caste. My bet is that the majority of Minbari are Worker Caste for the simple fact that we always need something fixed and built!

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

When I think of a (human) military, I think of a WHOLE LOT of workers. Someone on the radio, someone doing this, that, etc.

I've never heard a general statement by JMS as to what makes a Worker Caste member. Unless they make up about 90% of the population, wouldn't all sorts of warriors and religious people also study a profession?

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"The Bible is a book: it is a good book, but is is not the only book" - Inherit the Wind

"I do not believe that the same God who
has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use."—Galileo

hypatia@b5fan.b5lr.com
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Dark Archon:
Replying to the idea that religious and worker making up most of the Rangers. Since the Rangers fight, tradionally and historically the Warriors probably ran the Rangers. So I think that the Rangers operate under the warrior caste, thus it is this caste that decides how and when to undertake missions together with "Entil Zhah" . I think that over time the Rangers have spanned all castes. Now religious and worker can be part of the Rangers but take orders from the Warrior. I don't think that this is always the case because I seem to remember that the entire crew of Sheridan's first Whitestar was entirely religious. I think this was because the Warrior and Religious Castes weren't on all that great of terms.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I disagree here. Valen created the Rangers to work outside of caste politics (since at the time there were big divisions among the castes). Initially, most of the recruits were from the religious and worker castes, but later those from the warrior caste joined IIRC. After the war they stayed independant to the warrior caste.

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"And you, madam, are ugly. But I shall be sober in the morning." - Winston Churchill
--
yan@ranger.b5lr.com
 
A whole lot of workers in the military? Yeah.

But I see the worker/warrior/religious distinction as a lot closer to the medieval sense of it (or at least the ideal feudal system that only existed for a little bit). There were those that fought. That's what they did. They were the lords, the knights, etc., etc. There were those that prayed. That's what they did.

And then there were the serfs, the peasants, and the rest of the ordinary folk, who did everything else, including groom the lord's horse. There were even monastaries that had peasants attached to them.

We don't have a caste system, so it's different for us.

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channe@[url="http://cryoterrace.tripod.com"]cryoterrace[/url] | "Last one to kill a bad guy buys the beer." -apollo four forty
 
"In the Beginning"

An Earth Force general mentions that a whole third of Minbari population is dedicated to warfare. Londo promptly corrects him, saying that they have a caste system, made up of three castes.

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Londo obviously didn't agree with this claim. Otherwise he would not have corrected it. I can think of three possibilities:

1. At peacetime, the warrior caste is not 1/3 of the population. At times of war, more will consider this their calling and it will grow.

2. Warriors are not permanently dedicated to warfare. They are simply people who have learned this -- and are prepared for fighting, should the need arise.

During peacetime, only a fraction remains on active duty, with others practising other professions. These professions may be related to their specialty as a warrior, but not necessarily. Some might study history, some might design ships and weapons... and so on.

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I prefer to think that many warriors do not fight. Their specialty is everything related to fighting, including research into that field. Just like the workers don't simply build. Their specialty is everything related to this, from design to completion. Neither does the religious caste pray. Their specialty is that of research and education, no matter if the issue is spiritual, social, medical or physical.

Minbari society is quite different from medieval Europe. There are several examples which suggest that the caste system is actually quite formal. The primary specialty of a certain member of the religious caste was mathematics (not playing poker or cooking flarn). The specialty of another religious caste was training Rangers. Another chose to become a warrior, and was highly respected even by Neroon. Another chose politics and became Satai.

I would guess that the same applies to other Minbari castes. People move between different specialties pretty easily. When they take it seriously enough, they also change their caste.

[This message has been edited by Lennier (edited February 03, 2002).]
 
The worker caste are the ones that build things from civilian things like buildings to military things like starships to hand weapons in fact if it wern't for the workers the other castes would be sleeping outside
wink.gif


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"When it is time, come to this place, call our name, we will be here" -Walkers of Sigma957
 
The warrior caste is quite an obvious division. They would have to be trained in the art of combat and attached to some sort of military group, such as a battalion to be accepted as part of the Warrior Caste.

However, the Religious caste may be a little broader in scope. Since people are born into their caste, but can I believe choose to change, it would be fairly easy to change from Religious to Worker. To truly belong to the Warrior or Religious castes would require a fair amount of training and dedication.
Everyone else would automatically be a worker caste which would certainly be at least half the population IMO.

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I always seem to be diagonally parked in a parallel universe.
 
I actually think it's quite ironic and I'm now going to cast a wee bit of criticism JMS'S way (collective gasp)
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JMS has been very politically correct with B5, humans showing a united front. No colour distinctions, no gender segregation. It's one of the reasons why I've enjoyed it so much. BUT, here is a situation where someone like Delenn speaks for the worker caste. As admirable as she is, she doesn't represent them. I know in a broader sense of the word she represents what Minbari are supposed to become etc, etc. it's just I would have thought that there would at least beone character within the storyline to represent an essentially ignored portion of the Minbari.
crazy.gif


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"I am Grey. I stand between the candle and the star. We are Grey. We stand between the darkness and the light. I come to take the place that has been prepared for me"
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by superbob:

I would have thought that there would at least beone character within the storyline to represent an essentially ignored portion of the Minbari.
crazy.gif


<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Minbari society is a collection of contradictions. They do not lie, but neither do they tell the whole truth. They are one of the most advanced of the younger races, but their system of life and government is very similar to the one that held sway over Europe in the "dark ages" of human society.

I think that the worker caste was never really introduced because JMS's whole point was to show that even though the Minbari were over a thousand years more advanced than we are, they had still not overcome all their problems. If I recall, they were basically looked down upon and taken for granted by both the warrior and religious castes.

I see this as the fundamental difference between B5 and Star Trek. The B5 universe is not as optimistic a picture of the future as Trek. I like the idea that the human elements of selfishness, ego, and pleasure-seeking are not just confined to homo sapiens, but to all races. I'm also very impressed that Joe preserved the aspect that these common faults cannot be done away with by simply becoming more technologically advanced.


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You are finite. Zathras is finite. This...is wrong tool.

jtk724@hotmail.com

[This message has been edited by Zathras (edited February 04, 2002).]
 
The book "To Dream In The City Of Sorrows" seems to show that in the time period of early 2259, the worker caste was sort of looked down on.

Also, it seems to indicate that the Rangers were initially Warrior caste members, joined by former members of the religious caste as well. The elevation of Sinclair to the position of Ranger One caused most of the Warrior caste to leave the Rangers.

<table bgcolor=black><tr><td bgcolor=black><font size=1 color=white>Spoiler:</font></td></tr><tr><td><font size=2 color=black> It also allowed the Worker caste their first opportunity to join the Rangers. Sinclair insisted upon this as part of the conditions in which he would accept the position of Ranger One. </font></td></tr></table>

I feel the book says more about the Worker caste than we see anywhere else. Best of all, it's a GREAT book. Check it out immediately!

Joe

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Well, the worker caste wasn't so much looked down on as Ignored by the others.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR> "You had forgotten the worker caste, hadn't you?
When our two sides fight, they're the ones caught in the middle, forgotten until it's their time to serve; to build; and to die.
They build the temples we pray in, the ships you fight in.
They look to us to guide their hands.
But prayers are fleeting and wars forgotten.
What is built endures. They do not wish to conquer or convert, only to build the future.
And now, they will have that chance.
The religious caste and the warrior caste will advise and councel. We will serve, as is proper. Religion and war must act in the service of the people, not the other way around.

This place.. this place is reserved in memory of Neroon, until the day it is taken by the One who is to come.

You are the heart, the hands, and the voice of our people. Judge wisely and well."

Delenn to the new Grey council in Babylon 5:"Moments of Transition" <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

At that moment, Delenn was speaking as the Leader of the entire Minbari race, having "won" that right when Neroon took her place in the Starfire Wheel.
The essence of her last few words are that she is Abdicating that position as leader and declaring a period of mourning for Neroon.

After the period of mourning, the Minbari will choose a New leader, the "one who is to come".

BTw, this is NOT a reference to anything having to do with the Rangers or The One.
It's just a phrase which describes the future leader of the Grey Council.



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Do not ascribe your own motivations to others:
At best, it will break your heart.
At worst, it will get you dead."
 
"Zathras like dirt, always stepped upon" As always Zathras's wisdom shines through and I am to be thanking Zathras.
Jokes aside though, Zathras pointed out theis aint star trek and we are definitely not in Kansas Toto!
JMS has taken human emotions, the good as well as the bad and has highlighted these frailties through the other races.
laugh.gif


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"I am Grey. I stand between the candle and the star. We are Grey. We stand between the darkness and the light. I come to take the place that has been prepared for me"
 
Firstly I am sorry of digressing in a Rangers point of view, but it is because it is based on a reply to someone else's post.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by AngelSummers:
Dulann or Firell could be worker caste. Have their caste been mentioned in the movie?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I would say Dulann is Religious because of the fact that he is somewhat telepathic. Being telepathic doesn't automatically make one a Religious Caste, but from the RPG The Babylon Project it is mentioned that most are as young telepaths are brought up under the guidance of the Religious Caste.

As for Firell, I would say Worker, but then again a healer is also part of the overlap between Worker and Religious.

Unless JMS confirms anything, we could only guess.

As for the population - I would say most on Minbar are Worker, most of the Minbari fleet would be Warrior, were as the Religious are more of teachers and leaders. I am hoping that if a Rangers series happens that we would get to see more of the Minbari.

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'We live for The One, We die for The One, but we don't die stupidly' - David Martel B5LR: TLADIS
 
Healer = Religious??

You're letting your preconceptions show.
Too much D&D??

Considering that the Warrior Caste is the caste most likely to Need healers, it's very possible that healers are themselves Warrior Caste.



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Do not ascribe your own motivations to others:
At best, it will break your heart.
At worst, it will get you dead."
 
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