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Why do people sympathize with Mars?

F

Fas

Regular
They suck. They were neutral in the Earth-Minbari war, so they are a bunch of traitors. Now that they are independent, why don't they build their own damned fleet to defend their planet, instead of having Earthforce do it for them? Cowards. I say let them be taken over by the Dilgar or something.

Also, if the Interestellar Alliance lets members keep their sovereignty, why did they force Earth to let Marsies go? Why wasn't there a vote or something? They just "declared them independent", without consulting the entire population. Maybe the rebellion was just a minority? Now we'll never know. Sheridan's message is that as long as you help him get into office, it doesn't matter if you are a terrorist, you'll get what you want.

/nerdspeak.
 
so they are a bunch of traitors.
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Sheridan, Ivanova, Garibaldi, and Franklin together declared Babylon 5 independent from Earth, which went against the President of the Earth Alliance, so they're traitors too.

Also, if the Interestellar Alliance lets members keep their sovereignty, why did they force Earth to let Marsies go?
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I can't remember exactly which episode it was in, but someone eventually says that the folks in the Earth Alliance had been trying to figure out what to do with Mars for a long time, their declaring independence in the fight to protect their citizens from Clark solved the question of what to do with them: Affirm their independence and consider them an ally.

They just "declared them independent", without consulting the entire population.
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So did the leaders of the American Colonies in their quest for independence from Britain, if my history memory serves.

Sheridan's message is that as long as you help him get into office, it doesn't matter if you are a terrorist, you'll get what you want.
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Not hardly, Sheridan's taking the office of President of the Interstellar Alliance was done without his pursuit of it. It was never said from him or someone representing him that if Mars helped him become President he'd work toward their independence; it was said to the Mars Resistance that if they helped him take on President Clark and restore Earth's government that he'd help with getting Mars independence though.

Also, if it was Sheridan's message that if you help him get into office then it doesn't matter if you're a terrorist, then you'll get what you want, then Sheridan would have made sure the telepaths got a homeworld, but he didn't.
 
Um, where do you find that Mars was neutral in the Minbari War? Sinclair's from Mars, and he certainly wasn't neutral. Mars got skipped over, yes, but because the Minbari were going straight for the kill, not because the planet was neutral.

In fact, even if Mars declared neutrality, I'm not sure the Minbari would have respected it.

There were various Mars rebellions, and those might have been launched by minorities, but the local government of Mars -- duly elected -- voted to ignore Clark's decision. Like a state seceeding. Of course Clark lowered the boom... but that's a separate matter.
 
1: People see parallells with the American revolution. Damn colonials, I say. :D
2: They become an independent member of the Earth Alliance, similar to a member of the Commonwealth or the European Union today.
3: I'd guess if you lived on Mars, there'd be a lot of pressure from the terrorist movement and orginzed crime conglomerate to support them. Let's just say that you wouldn't want to cross them, or you'd have a nasty spacesuit accident.
4: Although the first members of the Free Mars movement were terrorist scum, during the rule of Clarke they were a rallying point for those loyal to the constitution. And for those who didn't care about Earth, Sheridan promised them independence. So yeah, he pretty much sold off Mars to get rid of Clarke. But it wasn't a bad deal, was it? A planet where terraformation had failed and everybody was living in domes, traded for the natural atmosphere cradle of humanity and several other colonies.

I think they were able to hinder any genocidal backlash against the Earth-loyal on Mars (unlike what happened in Vietnam in 1975). But you see how the board of Edgars Industries are accused of "strip-mining" the planet. If this was about breaking a law that was in place before the Civil War, then that was fine. However, what if this "strip-mining" accusation was founded in some new edict from the "Free Mars" movement with retroactive force? That would be wrong.

Another issue: After using telepaths to shut down the destroyers in Mars orbit, Sheridan was indebted to the telepaths. That may have been a big reason why he let Byron's Hair Conditioner Gang set up camp on B5.

It's all part of the same game as the Cold War. The enemy of my enemy is my friend. Even if they are less than perfect.
 
In fact, even if Mars declared neutrality, I'm not sure the Minbari would have respected it.
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It did, I don't remember if it was mentioned in the series, but it was mentioned in the (telepath trilogy) books, and part of the reason why Earthforce occupied Mars after the Minbari war was in retaliation for their neutrality. Intentions matter here.

Sheridan, Ivanova, Garibaldi, and Franklin together declared Babylon 5 independent from Earth, which went against the President of the Earth Alliance, so they're traitors too.
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heh, i'll admit my first post wasn't all-serious, but you can't make that comparison. One thing is declaring independence from a tyrannical regime and saying you *Will* come back when President Clark is removed. They just declared neutrality because they were too afraid and saw the Minbari were winning. They betrayed humanity.
 
They just declared neutrality because they were too afraid and saw the Minbari were winning. They betrayed humanity.
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Or they were desperately trying to save the humans living on Mars hoping that even if the Minbari eliminated Earth, that they would be able to continue humanity's existance in some form afterward.
 
Sheridan, Ivanova, Garibaldi, and Franklin together declared Babylon 5 independent from Earth, which went against the President of the Earth Alliance, so they're traitors too.
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They did it to protect the Constitution. So it's more of a judgement call than what Mars did. I didn't remember that part from the telepath trilogy.
 
Sheridan's message is that as long as you help him get into office, it doesn't matter if you are a terrorist, you'll get what you want.
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Also, from what I understand, it wasn't Mars who made him president of the ISA, it was Delenn, Londo, and G'Kar. ;) Damn those Minbari, Centauri, and Narm terrorists to hell! :p
 
Mars declaring neutrality is a sign a cowardice. Look it shows that Marsies have no respect to their own homeworld anymore. Thats probaly why Earth hates them anymore. Because Earth spends billions of credits just to maintain Mars and Mars dont give Earth repect. Mars is acting like a spoiled brat.
 
Look it shows that Marsies have no respect to their own homeworld anymore.
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Ah, but the Mars colony has existed long enough that entire generations of people have been born there. For them, Mars IS their homeworld.

And with Earth-born humans going around calling the people of Mars "Marsies," showing their disrespect for those on Mars, why should those on Mars be expected to respect those that disrespect them?

Because Earth spends billions of credits just to maintain Mars and Mars dont give Earth repect.
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Ah, but the mere fact that Mars can succeed and survive proves that Earth's spending of billions of credits is unnecessary and is done out of an act of the Earth goverment liking to own and dominate everything instead of working with others.

Mars is acting like a spoiled brat.
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And Earth is acting like it intrinsically owns the people that live, work, and die on Mars.
 
Ah, but the mere fact that Mars can succeed and survive proves that Earth's spending of billions of credits is unnecessary and is done out of an act of the Earth goverment liking to own and dominate everything instead of working with others.
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Do you have any evidence from the show that Mars has the resources to maintine its own economy?
 
Do you have any evidence from the show that Mars has the resources to maintine its own economy?
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In "Spider in the Web" they are organising an independent economy. That is why Talia's friend had come to Babylon 5. In Crusade the capital of Mars had grown to 4 times the size. They were probably shipping in food from one of the oxygen world ex-colonies.
 
Do you have any evidence from the show that Mars has the resources to maintine its own economy?
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In "Spider in the Web" they are organising an independent economy. That is why Talia's friend had come to Babylon 5. In Crusade the capital of Mars had grown to 4 times the size. They were probably shipping in food from one of the oxygen world ex-colonies.
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I'd also say that their ability to set up relations and accounts with alien government financial centers also is a statement as to their ability to maintain their own economy.
 
Do you have any evidence from the show that Mars has the resources to maintine its own economy?
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In "Spider in the Web" they are organising an independent economy. That is why Talia's friend had come to Babylon 5. In Crusade the capital of Mars had grown to 4 times the size. They were probably shipping in food from one of the oxygen world ex-colonies.
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I'd also say that their ability to set up relations and accounts with alien government financial centers also is a statement as to their ability to maintain their own economy.
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So basicly Mars is becomming Canada. Mars has the resources but no military.
 
Huh? A: Whats wrong with Canada? B: You're suggesting that Earthgov would welcome Mars building up its military capability? :rolleyes:. Mars is part of the Earth Alliance, which I'm sure has a mutual defence treaty and citizens serve in EA military, not Earth military. There is a difference. C: though I remember Sinclair as an Earther, who was involved with the Mars Rebellion, Garibaldi IS a Marsie!
 
Ah, but the mere fact that Mars can succeed and survive proves that Earth's spending of billions of credits is unnecessary and is done out of an act of the Earth goverment liking to own and dominate everything instead of working with others.
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Do you have any evidence from the show that Mars has the resources to maintine its own economy?
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Do you have any facts they dont? No. It is a fictional universe. We know Edgars Industries was at least Fortune 100, so Mars made money; we know Earth spent trillions on Mars, we dont know their return on investment, possibly jump gate tech, since if you didn't travel inter-solar, you weren't worthy of inter-stellar. :devil: Side rant: Those who complain about the funding for space exploration and for "pure" science: if it weren't for NASA, we wouldn't be chatting now. The need for a smaller, lighter payload pushed computer tech as nothing else had. How many trillions has NASA's initial investment generated for the world economy?
 
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