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Timeline order/question (spoilers)

Recoil

Recoil

Regular
Someone help clear this up for me. I think I have an idea of what is going on when, but I may have missed something, and a scene in LoTR last night made me wonder:

2262: ISA founded
2265: Legend of the Rangers movie
2267: A Call to Arms / Start of Crusade

Ok this is what I think we all 'KNOW': A Call to Arms took place at the 5 year anniversary of the founding of the ISA. LoTR was supposed to take place 2 years before A Call to Arms and Crusade, putting it at 2265. My question is where does the telepath war fall into this?

My reason for not knowing when is two fold:

<table bgcolor=black><tr><td bgcolor=black><font size=1 color=white>Spoiler:</font></td></tr><tr><td><font size=2 color=black>
1) In LoTR G'Kar referrs to Lyta, not by name, but we all know its her, and he comments that 'she is gone' or something to that effect. This almost implies that she is dead.
2) JMS has commented that Lyta dies 'right around' the Telepath War. So, by this logic one would think that the telepath war ended just before, or was going on during, LoTR. BUT...
3) At the very begining of A Call to Arms, the news person makes a comment expressing their sympathies to 'Those recently lost on both sides of the telepath conflict.' THIS leads one to believe that the telepath war ended JUST before AcTA (which follows with Crusade).
</font></td></tr></table>

So is the Telepath war over BEFORE Rangers starts, is it going on DURING the Rangers series, or is it due to happen in another 2 years. Either way something doesnt seem to jive here. I thought JMS was avoiding the Telepath era. If it just happened, then that doesnt explain the comment in ACtA at all. If it is happening now, or will soon, then he isnt avoiding that time at all.

Any ideas folks?

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'I don't believe in the no-win scenario' - JTK
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR> My question is where does the telepath war fall into this? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sometime before LotR... I'm not sure of the exact date but I know we just missed it.
smile.gif


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A proud member of the Wind Swords.
"War is life and death is the only true peace."
war-demon@b5fan.b5lr.com
 
See, I would have thought so too, but then that doesnt explain the comment at the begining of A Call to Arms. They speak as if it JUST ended there, and that is in 2267.

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'I don't believe in the no-win scenario' - JTK
 
Depends how you define 'recently'.

<table bgcolor=black><tr><td bgcolor=black><font size=1 color=white>Spoiler:</font></td></tr><tr><td><font size=2 color=black>I'd guess that the Telepath War is just over by Rangers. Something major that happened a few years ago can still be referred to as "recent".</font></td></tr></table>



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"Isn't the universe an amazing place? I wouldn't live anywhere else." - G'Kar, B5: Rangers
Kribu's Lounge | kribu@ranger.b5lr.com
 
At some point, I remember hearing (way before LotR was thought of) that the telepath war took place somewhere around 2264-2265. So I'm assuming it took place directly before LotR.

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[This message has been edited by Rhea (edited January 20, 2002).]
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Kribu:
Depends how you define 'recently'.

<table bgcolor=black><tr><td bgcolor=black><font size=1 color=white>Spoiler:</font></td></tr><tr><td><font size=2 color=black>I'd guess that the Telepath War is just over by Rangers. Something major that happened a few years ago can still be referred to as "recent".</font></td></tr></table>

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


I'm not sure I agree with this statement. Do you think two years from now, in 2003, you will hear a news anchor say out of the blue 'We wish to express our sympathies to those recently lost in the World Trade Center tradgedy' ? No way. The media has a very short attention span. Hell 3 months is ancient history in many aspects...

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'I don't believe in the no-win scenario' - JTK
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Recoil:
The media has a very short attention span. Hell 3 months is ancient history in many aspects...
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Depends. Maybe it is like that for an American. (No, it's not criticism... just seems to be the way things work.)

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"Isn't the universe an amazing place? I wouldn't live anywhere else." - G'Kar, B5: Rangers
Kribu's Lounge | kribu@ranger.b5lr.com
 
I have the exact same question...the timeline confusses me. I know all the stories were done at different times (the shows, the movies and the books) but this leaves a lot of confussion.

[spoiler

First was B5 and in B5 supposidly the telepath war and the draqk (sp) war were suppose to happen between the end and of B5 year 5 and "sleeping in the light. Then crusads happend and that filled in between the telepath war and sleeping in the light. This is where i have my problem:


NOVEL SPOLIERS TOO:

1. The whole Bester/Psi Corps series goes right throgh these events with meniton of anything..which makes it feel fake

2. The same is true with the Centari Novels. In those novels ( and i'm still on book 2) the Draqk (sp) were the major enemy (with shadow involvement) and whatever happens next with Londo...i haven't gotten that far yet, but i know enough from "In the Beginning" and "Sleeping in Light" to know that Sheriden had direct involvment in the incident and the Draqk were still the main enemy.

..I can really look past everything else but what really disturbes me is how the Hand are referred to as..."they make the shadows look like ants" That's comprehesionable...if it took place after "sleeping in the light". However because it took place before and all the loose ends weren't tied up with the Draqk yet, again it losses the meaning of what the shadows were

One last thing...In the final episoid of year 4, when the political analysist are looking back on the past and when earth is referred to as destroyed, everything they talk about roots from the shadow war. What I worry is that if an enemy is created that is more powerful then the Shadows, then that takes away from the greatness the posessed and their meaning in the whole sheme of things. [/spoilers]

Other then that I thought it was a GREAT movie! I didn't have a problem with any of it. It was ten times better then the B5 piliot and I hope it goes to a series!!


{deviotin begin] edited to fix you spoiler warning you gotta put teh etxt you want to be spoilers in between the to spoielr thingy. [/deviotend]

[This message has been edited by Deviot (edited January 20, 2002).]
 
Sorry guys... I didn't know how to "hide" what i was writing...I apolagize for any spoilers that arn't covered

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Yes, teep crisis was 2264 - 2265, and ended just prior to Rangers.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>..."they make the shadows look like ants" That's comprehesionable...if it took place after "sleeping in the light".<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Good point!!! We'll have to see how it plays out.

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Sorry - life got fun and interfered with my plans to be diligent.
 
If they wanted to take a major plot twist *cackle* they could have these Hand critters be the people who gave the Shadow's their technology/be one of their servents. I even dare to go as far as saying have it be part of the reason the Shadows left.
mad.gif
mad.gif
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Talathanar:
If they wanted to take a major plot twist *cackle* they could have these Hand critters be the people who gave the Shadow's their technology/be one of their servents. I even dare to go as far as saying have it be part of the reason the Shadows left.
mad.gif
mad.gif
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I would hope that is not the case. I dont like new stories adjusting ones that are already told. The story that the Vorlons and the Shadows EVOLVED into their own ideologies is at the very core of the B5 story. Lorien helped guide those 2 races. If Rangers comes along and says 'ok, no, Lorien didnt really guide the Shadows, they got their tech from The Hand and were merely servents of them, I would be let down. I, however, dont think JMS would touch that possibility with a 10 foot pole...

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'I don't believe in the no-win scenario' - JTK
 
One thought I had was maybe it was Lorien's race that booted them out?

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Joe,

Thanks for filling in the holes in that timeline. I forgot that the news person was talking about a monument being unveiled. That does make sense, and it would follow that they would refer to it as 'recent' under those terms.

I agree with your description of JMS's storytelling. I think setting up the Hand in this series is interesting, but like you said, it is VERY unlikely that they will be a large part of the story when/if it goes to series. I dont think everyone assuming they are just like shadows is completely correct. It WAS kind of set up that way in the movie, given the choice of words and context, but as you said, he loves setting you up on the tee just so he can yell 'FORE' and *whack* something else happens.
smile.gif


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'I don't believe in the no-win scenario' - JTK
 
Give 'em hell Joe D.
laugh.gif


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Never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience.
### Hi, I'm a sig virus. Please add me to the end of your signature so I can take over the world. ### - Caught from Kier Darby @ vBulletin infidel_dog@rangerone.b5lr.com
 
Hello i'm new here, but not at firstones and just wanted to post my opinion here.

if I rememebr correctly, when Lyta went to Zahadum to find out what was left and exploded the planet, they were attacked by something related to as the "eyes". the ship was not shadow-like in any form. could it be the same with the hands??? a modification of the shadow???

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We live for the one, we die for the one. and... I am the one.
 
The Telepath War does start in 2264 (when Lyta and G'Kar return) and ends in 2265. In late 2266 or early 2267 (ActA) they have just unveiled a memorial to those killed in the "recent" Telepath Crisis. The word "recent" has a rather elastic meaning. In news reports on the U.S. military, depending on the context, Vietnam, the Gulf War, Somalia and Kosovo have all be referred to as "recent" events, as indeed they are if the conversation goes back as far as WWI and WWII. In this context I hardly think there is anything strange with a newscaster referring to something as big as a war that happened only two years ago as "recent."

The only one who said that The Hand make the Shadows look like insects was a spy and a traitor. Why does everyone assume he was telling the truth. Also has everyone suddenly developed amensia regarding JMS's story-telling technique?

B5. The pilot and the first season set the station up as "the U.N. in space", the mystery of the Minbari surrender, and the hole in Sinclair's mind. There is barely a hint of the Shadows in the whole first season. (There's Morden, but we don't learn who or what he is until S2.) The show we thought we were getting was not at all the show we got - although in retrospect it is clear that all that followed was already being set up.

Crusade (and ACtA, which was not the series pilot). Everyone's running around looking for a cure to a plague that we already know has been cured. (Because we've seen "Deconstruction" and "SiL") Then we would have seen the S1 cliff-hanger, and watched the show suddenly veer off into a new direction. The show we thought we were getting was not the show we (would have) ended up with.

JMS is evil. He loves setting us up to expect one thing, then whacking us upside the head with a two-by-four and saying, "No, see, the story's over here!"

Yet every single time he does this people fall for it. "The Hand is just a watered down version of the Shadows. This doesn't fit the continuity." Does anybody here seriously think that JMS doesn't know that's how this all looks? That you've all spotted something in the script that he missed?

And the criticisms are always the same. The acting is always "wooden" (doesn't anybody own a thesaurus?), the FX sucks, the music isn't as good as it should be, the characters aren't interesting, JMS has lost it.

Go to JMS News and read some of the early comments on "The Gathering", the beginning of every single season, all the TV movies and Crusade. I've got this incredible sense of deja vu.

If Rangers spawns a series I confidently predict that by the end of S1 people will be praising the "wooden" actors extravagently, talking about what a brilliant plot twist The Hand turned out to be and wishing that whichever character they hated most in the pilot was getting more screen time. The only thing that might break the pattern is the weapons pod thing, and even that a lot of people already like. Since Rangers would not be a "ship show" the pod would probably be used sparingly in any event (if it is carried over at all) and it may grow even on its critics.

Regards,

Joe

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Joseph DeMartino
Sigh Corps
Pat Tallman Division
joseph-demartino@att.net

[This message has been edited by Joseph DeMartino (edited January 20, 2002).]
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Joseph DeMartino:
I've got this incredible sense of deja vu. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

All over again?
smile.gif


To extend your prediction, everyone will spend the first season and a half complaining about the non-JMS scripts and how they aren't as good and don't fit into the arc. And then they'll spend the remainder of the series complaining how JMS is doing too much of the writing, and he should let other people write some of it to provide a "fresh perspective".

Should I go on? [eg]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR> The acting is always "wooden" (doesn't anybody own a thesaurus?), <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Um... it was in the other room...
smile.gif



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-- Marty
"Always do what you're good at," they tell me.
So I go around annoying people.
 
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