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The evil of Alfred Bester

A

AngelSummers

Beyond the rim
Does anybody think that Alfred Bester is one of the most evil person or misguded at best in the whole Babylon 5 show? Even Mr. Morden pales in comparison to sceaming and conniving bastard who parallels with Hitler in thinking all non-telepaths are inferior and should be rounded up and ruled by the superior telepaths. His thinking really parallels with Hitler who made the Jews out to be inferior and potential slaves at best.

Bester wants a place where telepaths rule, not live peacefully with their fellow man. I know of all the historial grievances of the telepaths in the EA history (personally I don't think it'll be as bad as that in the future) but even then, it gives him no right to think sucj racist thoughts. Unlike telepaths of the Resistance who want nothing but peace and equality with their fellow man, he wishes to dominate them, no more, no less. Even to his own fellow telepaths he is cruel, using the guise of the noble leader of the Psi Corps.

<table bgcolor=black><tr><td bgcolor=black><font size=1 color=white>Spoiler:</font></td></tr><tr><td><font size=2 color=black> I recently read "The Fate of Alfred Bester". I was pleasantly suprised that he managed to love someone (a normal no less) and be reciprocated. I was even more hopeful when the woman he loved continued to love him after his identity was revealed. (curtesy of Mr.Garibaldi)

AND THEN HE SLICED HER MIND OUT!!!!! IN ORDER TO COVER HIS TRACKS HE REMOVED ALL MEMORY OF HIMSELF FROM HER. HE REJECTED THE ONLY WOMAN, NAY HUMAN IN THE GALAXY WHO LOVED HIM DESPITE HER OATH THAT SHE WOULD STAND BY HIM.</font></td></tr></table>


From that on, any sympathy I might have felt for Bester simply eroded away. Nothing ever made me sympatize with him again. Not his love for Carolyn, not his so called loyalty to telepaths, not his tortured childhood, Nothing!!!! He is purely eveil and misguided and I for one, say serve him right that he died alone, with nobody to care for him. He wasted his life shedding both normal and telepath blood in the so-called name of homo superior when he could have been better serve as a leader on the path of peace, concerned not with elevating his people to become master of all but to become equal to all.

Thoughts on Bester anyone?

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May the light of the Buddha, Dhamma and Sangha protect you.

May you all be well and happy, free from suffering, free from sickness.

[This message has been edited by AngelSummers (edited November 14, 2001).]
 
Yes, Bester wasn't the nicest guy around.
shocked.gif


BTW, AngelSummers, I'd suggest editing the above post and put spoiler tags around the bit from the books...

I for one have not read the PsiCorps trilogy yet (I don't know if I will so I don't care about the spoiler) but perhaps some people here would like to be pleasantly surprised.
smile.gif


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"Narns, Humans, Centauri... we all do what we do for the same reason: because it seems like a good idea at the time." - G'Kar, Mind War
Kribu's Lounge
 
Spoiler tags done. I wouldn't recommend the books though. Very unhappy ending. Especially for dear old Bester. That ignorant bastard. I think Garibaldi said it best when he called Bester "That little Hitler."

Ironic that the most evil person in B5 is a trek actor.

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May the light of the Buddha, Dhamma and Sangha protect you.

May you all be well and happy, free from suffering, free from sickness.
 
Ive read the fate of bester too!Its the best in the trilogy i think.Is was really good that he fell in love but he did'nt hesitate to wipe her mind when his own interests where at stake.I also liked how they told you that he died and about his parents and stuff!

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We live for the one!We die for the one!
 
Bester was a hero. He was nobly fighting for the rightful place of telepaths as rulers. After all, should not the superior population rule the inferior? If the normals would just have cooperated and submit peacefully to their betters, they would have been treated well. Bester did what was necessary and, sadly, failed.

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"You do not make history. You can only hope to survive it."
 
Bester learned all he needed to know about evil from mundanes. For 100 years, the normals rounded up telepaths and dumped them into the Meta-Sensory Division, later known as PsiCorps. Their civil rights were taken away and their lives were spent within the Corps. When they ventured out into the world of the normals, they were treated with mistrust and prejudice. As a child, Bester had to deal with the threat of violence all the time due to his abilities.

He grew up under oppression, racism, and domination - so these became his charter when he got older.

JMS's opinion on the subject is quite bleak. He states it right out several times throughout the series: Normals and telepaths may NEVER live together in peace. The two species will fight for supremacy. This is evolution. Garibaldi had an obvious racist dislike and distrust of telepaths right from the start. We saw how Lyta was used by our heroes, but eventually abandoned when her usefulness wore out. The normals, even our favorites, are not without blame.

And Byron was racist, also. He didn't want to live in peace with normals. He wanted to live AWAY from normals. In the end, they wouldn't let him.

Bester's situation was parallelled by Ian McKellan's character of Magneto in X-Men. Both of these characters decided it was better to rule than to be ruled. Both characters felt their species could face extermination unless theirs became the one in power. It's a pre-emptive strike.

Willaim Edgars sought to carry out a pre-emptive strike of his own, by turning the telepaths into a slave population under the threat of death.

In terms of evolution, Bester saw humans as humans see monkeys, or any other lesser species. We have no qualms about infecting apes, who share 98-99% of our DNA, with AIDS or other diseases in order to find a cure for our own species. Then there's our habit of eating meat.

This is life. We're not righteous or innocent. We're just at the top of the food chain. If a greater species came along and kicked our asses, well, we'd probably deserve it.

The only thing in the book that I didn't agree with was:




<table bgcolor=black><tr><td bgcolor=black><font size=1 color=white>Spoiler:</font></td></tr><tr><td><font size=2 color=black> When he killed the old telepath in Paris. Bester has always been able to justify killing normals for the reasons I mentioned above. When Byron and his rogues immolated themselves on Babylon 5, he had been heartbroken and confused. That he would now seek out this man, who hadn't reported him since spotting him at the Eiffel Tower, and kill him to cover his tracks just didn't ring true. This was a telepath. One of his own. </font></td></tr></table>

And I did love Garibaldi's final tribute to Bester.
laugh.gif


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By Grabthar's Hammer!
By the Suns of Worvan!
You Shall BE AVENGED!
~Doctor Lazarus, Galaxy Quest episode 52, "Today is the Tomorrow of Our Yesterdays"

[This message has been edited by B5_Obsessed (edited November 14, 2001).]

[This message has been edited by B5_Obsessed (edited November 14, 2001).]
 
Bester always amazed me - how a person could be like Bester and still stay sane.

But, you realize, there are plenty of Alfred Besters around, walking down the street, on the bus in the morning, in the restaurants.

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The writer's life is not meant to be a happy one. We all accept that going in. -JMS
 
Bester, for all his talk of being superior, is very human. He exhibits so many of humanity's fears, foibles, insecurities, defensiveness, etc.

Of course, the Vorlons and Shadows never really transcend their prejudices, either...

I wonder, how much of Bester's evil is due to the fact he was mentally superior without being morally evolved... Or, to turn the question around --

How many of us would be like Bester if we were able to get away with it?

What's the defense against the tempatation of power?



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"What's up, Drakh?"

Michael Garibaldi
 
I don't think Bester was evil. Hell, I don't believe in the notion of good and evil anyway. All there is are different sides with opposing views. Bester thought he was right, those who opposed him thought they were right. It's all just a matter of perspective.

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We're all born as molecules in the hearts of a billion stars, molecules that do not understand politics, policies and differences. In a billion years we, foolish molecules forget who we are and where we came from. Desperate acts of ego. We give ourselves names, fight over lines on maps. And pretend our light is better than everyone else's. The flame reminds us of the piece of those stars that live inside us. A spark that tells us: you should know better. The flame also reminds us that life is precious, as each flame is unique. When it goes out, it's gone forever. And there will never be another quite like it
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by B5_Obsessed:


<table bgcolor=black><tr><td bgcolor=black><font size=1 color=white>Spoiler:</font></td></tr><tr><td><font size=2 color=black> When he killed the old telepath in Paris. Bester has always been able to justify killing normals for the reasons I mentioned above. When Byron and his rogues immolated themselves on Babylon 5, he had been heartbroken and confused. That he would now seek out this man, who hadn't reported him since spotting him at the Eiffel Tower, and kill him to cover his tracks just didn't ring true. This was a telepath. One of his own. </font></td></tr></table>

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ooooh, yes it does (ring true). In the final analysis, Bester puts himself before others, always. I can never see him throwing himself in front of a knife like Delenn did for Sheridan. Sure, he'll take risks for those he cares about

<table bgcolor=black><tr><td bgcolor=black><font size=1 color=white>Spoiler:</font></td></tr><tr><td><font size=2 color=black>(e.g. his lover in Paris)</font></td></tr></table>

when he thinks he can get away with it but he'll do whatever he has to do to survive at the expense of others (e.g.

<table bgcolor=black><tr><td bgcolor=black><font size=1 color=white>Spoiler:</font></td></tr><tr><td><font size=2 color=black> killing the teep who recognized him, mindwiping his lover and destroying everything they had together, </font></td></tr></table>

etc.)

Bester is more and more over the years, deluded, soulless and amoral.

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KoshN
-------------
Vorlon Empire

"To Live and Die in Starlight"
pilot movie for "Babylon 5 - The Legend of the Rangers"
January 2002 on The Sci-Fi Channel.
http://www.scifi.com/b5rangers/
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by channe:
Bester always amazed me - how a person could be like Bester and still stay sane.

But, you realize, there are plenty of Alfred Besters around, walking down the street, on the bus in the morning, in the restaurants.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, define sanity. There are people who are capable of compartmentalizing their life. In certain sections, they may appear completely sane. In others they may appear completely deluded, and irrational.

Bester was like that. He had firewalls up. He let himself feel within certain prescribed areas. These areas were isolated from his amoral areas.

I suppose a sane person would be one who is completely rational (within the bounds of what is considered normal, which is, btw, a "relative" term and not an absolute) in all areas of one's life, and does not do harm to others.

Normalcy depends on the group to which you're compared. I guess a terrorist would be considered insane if he/she did not commit acts of terror, but would be considered insane (if he/she acted normally for a terrorist), when compared to the entire human population.

Some people would harm or kill themselves, but would never even dream of harming or killing others. Was Byron insane? He committed suicide. Is that not an act of insanity? Compared to the entire human population, is it not considered normal to want to continue to live? If you don't want to continue to live, aren't you by definition "insane."

IMHO, Bester was insane his whole life.

------------------
KoshN
-------------
Vorlon Empire

"To Live and Die in Starlight"
pilot movie for "Babylon 5 - The Legend of the Rangers"
January 2002 on The Sci-Fi Channel. http://www.scifi.com/b5rangers/

[This message has been edited by KoshN (edited November 14, 2001).]
 
Yes I believe he is evil, and saying he's simply human does not excuse it. Neither does a bad childhood. He made the decision plenty of time to murder innocent people. Claiming their is a contiuous secret war does not excuse genecide.

Can you tell I've had this argument before?

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"I used to be known as Eric, the waiter with hands for hands." The waiter with stubs for hands in The Kids in the Hall
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by B5_Obsessed:
Bester learned all he needed to know about evil from mundanes. For 100 years, the normals rounded up telepaths and dumped them into the Meta-Sensory Division, later known as PsiCorps. Their civil rights were taken away and their lives were spent within the Corps. When they ventured out into the world of the normals, they were treated with mistrust and prejudice. As a child, Bester had to deal with the threat of violence all the time due to his abilities.

He grew up under oppression, racism, and domination - so these became his charter when he got older.

JMS's opinion on the subject is quite bleak. He states it right out several times throughout the series: Normals and telepaths may NEVER live together in peace. The two species will fight for supremacy. This is evolution. Garibaldi had an obvious racist dislike and distrust of telepaths right from the start. We saw how Lyta was used by our heroes, but eventually abandoned when her usefulness wore out. The normals, even our favorites, are not without blame.

And Byron was racist, also. He didn't want to live in peace with normals. He wanted to live AWAY from normals. In the end, they wouldn't let him.

Bester's situation was parallelled by Ian McKellan's character of Magneto in X-Men. Both of these characters decided it was better to rule than to be ruled. Both characters felt their species could face extermination unless theirs became the one in power. It's a pre-emptive strike.

Willaim Edgars sought to carry out a pre-emptive strike of his own, by turning the telepaths into a slave population under the threat of death.

In terms of evolution, Bester saw humans as humans see monkeys, or any other lesser species. We have no qualms about infecting apes, who share 98-99% of our DNA, with AIDS or other diseases in order to find a cure for our own species. Then there's our habit of eating meat.

This is life. We're not righteous or innocent. We're just at the top of the food chain. If a greater species came along and kicked our asses, well, we'd probably deserve it.

The only thing in the book that I didn't agree with was:




<table bgcolor=black><tr><td bgcolor=black><font size=1 color=white>Spoiler:</font></td></tr><tr><td><font size=2 color=black> When he killed the old telepath in Paris. Bester has always been able to justify killing normals for the reasons I mentioned above. When Byron and his rogues immolated themselves on Babylon 5, he had been heartbroken and confused. That he would now seek out this man, who hadn't reported him since spotting him at the Eiffel Tower, and kill him to cover his tracks just didn't ring true. This was a telepath. One of his own. </font></td></tr></table>

And I did love Garibaldi's final tribute to Bester.
laugh.gif


<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

B5_Obsessed and G'Karseye, I am appaled at your lack of faith of the moral side of humanity. If JMS predictions come true, it most likely people like YOU 2 would be part of those lynch mobs crucifying the telepaths. You're all monsters!!! You say it is impossible to live with telepaths. Well, so did the Southern Confederates when Abraham Lincoln abolished slavery. You are racist if you think there is no hope of coexistence. It is this type of thinking that breed fanatics like Osama Bin Laden or any other fanatics for that matter who refuse to believe in peace.

Even if this is the current cycle of hatred and vengeance doesn't mean it can't be stopped. You appall me with your attitudes. It's easy to talk about being on top of the food chain when there aren't US bombers in your sky bombing the hell out of you. The Anthrax scares and terrorist attacks are only an inlking of what many Asian countries experience in their ebveryday.

Evolution my foot.
mad.gif
I'll never believe majority of Humans will become hate fanatics like those of you who think there is a superior class of humans. There is only one. Any other thinking is racism and prejudice, something I thought America prided itself to be. Even JMS did not let the likelihood of good humans caring for their fellow telepaths. look at Franklin? I admit Sheridan overlooking Lyta distrubs me but in the end, she was actualy overlooked becoz Sheridan had too much to think off. I believe she would have been treated better if Sheridan had not been pressured by too many things

The cycle of suffering continues only because you make it to continue. I for one will resist the urges of bloodlust and revenge. Who will stand with me?

------------------
May the light of the Buddha, Dhamma and Sangha protect you.

May you all be well and happy, free from suffering, free from sickness.
 
I think Gkarseye is playing Psi Corp's advocate. Psi Corps thought of themselves as superior to normals (mundanes).

Have you read the Psi Corps trilogy? It's hard to believe all the stuff that Bester just refuses to accept, even when it's staring him in the face.

There were a lot of times in Books 2 & 3 when I just wanted to smack him across the face with a large, cold, wet fish and say "Wake the hell up, you blithering idiot!"
crazy.gif


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KoshN
-------------
Vorlon Empire

"To Live and Die in Starlight"
pilot movie for "Babylon 5 - The Legend of the Rangers"
January 2002 on The Sci-Fi Channel.
http://www.scifi.com/b5rangers/
 
Yeah, Bester was pretty bad. But he also had a human side to him. That was shown in how much he cared for his lover Carolyn. He was willing to do anything that would bring him back to her, even co-operate with Sheridan and his staff.

Bester did what he thought was best for Bester. He at times used some pretty bad ways to do that. That is what makes him seem so evil. He will not hesitate to do what is in his best interests, even if others suffer in the process.

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The Whitestar Salad Bar, the galaxy's best place for parties.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by B5_Obsessed:
And I did love Garibaldi's final tribute to Bester.
laugh.gif
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Agreed with the rest of your post. I personally like JMS's final tribute

<table bgcolor=black><tr><td bgcolor=black><font size=1 color=white>Spoiler:</font></td></tr><tr><td><font size=2 color=black>when the new spokesman for the new Psi Corps reveals the statue as the (among other things) spiritual ancestor the present Psi Corps, and it includes Bester.
</font></td></tr></table>

As for JMS's opinion of telepaths, remember Mr. Jones from Crusade. Despite getting rid of the old structure, and presumably many of the people like Bester, the conflict is still present.

-g

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Hey
smile.gif
,chill, Angelsummers, B5_obsessed and GkarsEye were just explaining Bester's mindset, which is fairly self evident. Just because someone is trying to understand the motivations of a person it doesn't mean they think that way themselves. I can still try to understand what makes Osama Bin laden and his cronies tick without actually believing that what they believe is right or justified.

Mind you, I don't believe that evil is an absolute. Bester was trying to do what he thought was right for his people. Of course he was still callous, cruel and a bit of a megalomaniac.

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One of the things to remember about Bester is that the Abuse he surffered as a child was deliberately inflicted by Telepaths. PsyCorps KNEW exactly what they were doing to him: They were shaping him into a Tool.

PsyCorps took Bester as an Infant. Up to that time, he had known nothing but Love. Then, his parents were murdered and Bester became another PsyCorps experiment.
Knowing his heritage and the fact that his talent was already active even as an infant, they were very sure he would eventually end up a PsyCop.
So, they made sure Bester was alienated from everyone except the PsyCorps Leadership.
Including other telepaths.

Bester's childhood was controlled in such a way that he was most likely to develop a sociopathic personality.
He did. PsyCorps got exactly what they wanted, someone with little or no conscience.

The fact that he was Raised to be a monster doesn't change the fact that he WAS a Monster.
It just means that Other Monsters share the blame for his murders because of their guilt in creating him.



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The 3 most common elements in the Universe:
Hydrogen, Greed, Stupidity!
 
Bester may have cared for Carolyn in his own twisted way, but it was a selfish, twisted love. It's made pretty clear that the Psi-Corps 'reducation' facilities are no better than concentration camps. Bester took advantage of a woman who had absolutely no rights, and no way of refusing his advances. Some might consider that rape. In Ship of Tears, Bester says that he hasn't seen or heard of Carolyn for four weeks. Hello! This is a woman he claims to love, and is carrying his child ... wouldn't most people be at least a little bit concerned?

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