teep v techno

[**DONOTDELETE**]

A little something that is puzzling me. The Vorlons designed telepaths to instinctively dislike shadow technology. How come Matheson and Galen get on? Galen the Techno-mage has implants made from Shadow technology and his spaceship is pure Shadow Technology. I would expect this to make Matheson very uncomfortable but he does not seem to be even worried. I wonder if the technology has been tamed in the last few years.

------------------
Andrew Swallow

 

[Jomar]

I don't remember anything about teeps disliking Shadow technology. I do recall Anna Sheridan definitely didn't like the Vorlon technology in the White Star.

------------------

 

[KoshN]

You really should put spoiler protection here, bud.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by AndrewSwallow:
A little something that is puzzling me. The Vorlons designed telepaths to instinctively dislike shadow technology.

Spoiler for Technomage Book 2, and "End of the Line" :

<table bgcolor=black><tr><td bgcolor=black><font size=1 color=white>Spoiler:</font></td></tr><tr><td><font size=2 color=black> How come Matheson and Galen get on? Galen the Techno-mage has implants made from Shadow technology and his spaceship is pure Shadow Technology. I would expect this to make Matheson very uncomfortable but he does not seem to be even worried. I wonder if the technology has been tamed in the last few years.</font></td></tr></table>


<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Dislike Shadowtech? No, I think the Vorlons designed the teeps to instantly recognize Shadowtech. The effect is most profound with Lyta, the Teep superweapon. It kicks in her Vorlon programming. Who knows if other teeps, even P12s have this programming? I don't think they do. Spoiler for "Value Judgements" & Technomage trilogy: Matheson's only a

<table bgcolor=black><tr><td bgcolor=black><font size=1 color=white>Spoiler:</font></td></tr><tr><td><font size=2 color=black>P6. He may not be strong enough to sense the Shadowtech, especially if he's trying to follow the new Telepath Integration rules. Also, I got the impression that only the bit of the mage's chrysalis that formed the interface to his/her ship, was actually Shadowtech. A bit of Galen's chrysalis is also in his staff (that Elric made for him). The mage's implants are the highest form of Shadowtech. The chrysalis is lower, and is used to form a link to lower tech devices, like the staff, the ship, etc.

By 2267, the mages may have found a way to tame the chaos & destruction programming in the tech. I guess we'll find out in Book #3.

</font></td></tr></table>

Lyta's a P-Infinity.

------------------
KoshN
----------------
Vorlon Empire

"To Live and Die in Starlight"
pilot movie for the new series
"Babylon 5 - The Legend of the Rangers"
January 2, 2002 on The Sci-Fi Channel. http://www.scifi.com/b5rangers/


[This message has been edited by KoshN (edited September 13, 2001).]

 

[**DONOTDELETE**]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>The Vorlons designed telepaths to instinctively dislike shadow technology.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
And vica versa...


<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Galen the Techno-mage has implants made from Shadow technology and his spaceship is pure Shadow Technology.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Actually his spaceship has very, very little ShadowTech - just the piece of his crysalis that is merged with it. The rest is an homebuild Technomage affair (see the books).


<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Who knows if other teeps, even P12s have this programming? I don't think they do.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Even Ivanova as a P½ felt uncomfortable with the ShadowTech in her Warlock's computer system; so it certainly isn't tied to a teeps strength.

I believe Matheson's Does feel a bit uncomfortable around Galen, but doesn't recognize this feeling as created by the presence of ShadowTech (since he had no prior contact with shady things), but rather thinks it's just a part of Galen's "Technomage flair" or something like that... and being a nice telepath and person, he tries not to let that strange, unexplained feeling color his perception of Galen.

------------------
"ShadowScout"
Roman Alexander

"Go on, watch out for Shadows - we'll watch you right back!"

What do you want?
ShadowShips!

 

[Mondo Londo]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jomar:
I don't remember anything about teeps disliking Shadow technology. I do recall Anna Sheridan definitely didn't like the Vorlon technology in the White Star.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm not sure I catch the correspondence between teeps and Anna Sheridan.

<table bgcolor=black><tr><td bgcolor=black><font size=1 color=white>Spoiler:</font></td></tr><tr><td><font size=2 color=black>

I'm not aware of any indication that Anna Sheridan is a telepath. She was captured by the Shadows, and used as a living CPU for one of their ships. It doesn't seem as if much of her original personality survived this. Once the Shadows realized she was Sheridan's wife, they pulled her out and gave her a new personality that fit their purposes.

As Clark's influence on Earth grew, the Shadows were able to get a steady flow of telepaths to use as living CPUs. But the Shadows installed Anna before that flow started.

Of couse, as little more than a programmed, organic Shadow robot, Anna did recognize and thus dislike Vorlon tech.

</font></td></tr></table>

------------------
"What's up, Drakh?"

Michael Garibaldi

[This message has been edited by Mondo Londo (edited September 14, 2001).]

 

[KoshN]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>
Galen the Techno-mage has

<table bgcolor=black><tr><td bgcolor=black><font size=1 color=white>Spoiler:</font></td></tr><tr><td><font size=2 color=black> implants made from Shadow technology and his spaceship is pure Shadow Technology. </font></td></tr></table>

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>


<table bgcolor=black><tr><td bgcolor=black><font size=1 color=white>Spoiler:</font></td></tr><tr><td><font size=2 color=black>Actually his spaceship has very, very little ShadowTech - just the piece of his crysalis that is merged with it. The rest is an homebuild Technomage affair (see the books).</font></td></tr></table>

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Maybe not everybody here has read the unfilmed scripts, and the first two books of the Technomage trilogy, and would like to come upon this info. through the books.


<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Who knows if other teeps, even P12s have this programming? I don't think they do.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Even Ivanova as a P½ felt uncomfortable with the ShadowTech in her Warlock's computer system; so it certainly isn't tied to a teeps strength.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Or maybe physical contact is needed? In Hidden Agendas, Ivanova is in contact with her ship, all the time, and even then it takes her awhile to suspect and investigate.


------------------
KoshN
----------------
Vorlon Empire

"To Live and Die in Starlight"
pilot movie for the new series
"Babylon 5 - The Legend of the Rangers"
January 2, 2002 on The Sci-Fi Channel. http://www.scifi.com/b5rangers/


[This message has been edited by KoshN (edited September 14, 2001).]

 

[Mondo Londo]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR> Or maybe physical contact is needed? In Hidden Agendas, Ivanova is in contact with her ship, all the time, and even then it takes her awhile to suspect and investigate. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Is this a JMS short story? A comic? I'm not familiar with it...


------------------
"What's up, Drakh?"

Michael Garibaldi

 

[A_M_Swallow]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>
Maybe I missed something, but who said that telepaths were programmed to react against shadow tech?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

<table bgcolor=black><tr><td bgcolor=black><font size=1 color=white>Spoiler:</font></td></tr><tr><td><font size=2 color=black> This is a reference to the magazine story 'Hidden Agendas by JMS. The telepathic bodyguard to a senator enters a Warlock class spaceship. The hidden Shadow Technology makes him very uncomfortable and he has to leave within 5 minutes. </font></td></tr></table>

Spaceship technology.

<table bgcolor=black><tr><td bgcolor=black><font size=1 color=white>Spoiler:</font></td></tr><tr><td><font size=2 color=black> In 'The Well of Forever' Galen's ship is shown to have sensor technology in advance of the Excalibur's. Only First Ones technology can be that advanced. Since the implant technology comes from the Shadows the space ship technology comes from the same source, although they can make it themselves. </font></td></tr></table>



------------------
Andrew Swallow

 

[**DONOTDELETE**]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>In 'The Well of Forever' Galen's ship is shown to have sensor technology in advance of the Excalibur's. Only First Ones technology can be that advanced.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
No - there is a lot of technology between Minbari (in space for 1200 years) and First Ones (in space for MILLIONS of years).


<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>

<table bgcolor=black><tr><td bgcolor=black><font size=1 color=white>Spoiler:</font></td></tr><tr><td><font size=2 color=black>Since the implant technology comes from the Shadows the space ship technology comes from the same source, although they can make it themselves.</font></td></tr></table>

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Nope.


<table bgcolor=black><tr><td bgcolor=black><font size=1 color=white>Spoiler:</font></td></tr><tr><td><font size=2 color=black>The ShadowTech they use is delivered by the Drakh with best wishes from Z'ha'dum, and is faaar beyond their understanding. Their ships are constructed by their "Kinetic Grimlis" members, with the best tech the 'Mages can supply on their own - maybe with ancient knowledge inherited from the Taratimude, the race that made the original deal with the Shadows that birthed the Technomages... So there's no real ShadowTech in their ships... excapt that bit of Crysalis mentioned above...</font></td></tr></table>



------------------
"ShadowScout"
Roman Alexander

"Go on, watch out for Shadows - we'll watch you right back!"

What do you want?
ShadowShips!

 

[SamGadsby]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by GKarsEye:


<table bgcolor=black><tr><td bgcolor=black><font size=1 color=white>Spoiler:</font></td></tr><tr><td><font size=2 color=black>Technomages may have shadow tech, but who knows if or how it's been altered through the years? Even if it hasn't been, it's application has, to the point that it's not fully Shadow tech anymore. This is stated explicitly in the second Technomage book. </font></td></tr></table>

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

<table bgcolor=black><tr><td bgcolor=black><font size=1 color=white>Spoiler:</font></td></tr><tr><td><font size=2 color=black>They get a fresh supply of shadow tech each year right before implantation. No time to alter.
But you're right about it's application.</font></td></tr></table>



------------------
2466614
"Gideon says we all have things to hide."
"Does he? How unfortunate, I was hoping he'd come further than that. Well not that it isn't true of course, it's just that one simply doesn't have to say it."

 

[GKarsEye]

Maybe I missed something, but who said that telepaths were programmed to react against shadow tech?

Anyway, non-telepaths also react negatively toward Shadow stuff: remember that archeologist chick from Mars and that season 1 pilot who died both got the heeby-jeebies from Shadow ships.

<table bgcolor=black><tr><td bgcolor=black><font size=1 color=white>Spoiler:</font></td></tr><tr><td><font size=2 color=black>Technomages may have shadow tech, but who knows if or how it's been altered through the years? Even if it hasn't been, it's application has, to the point that it's not fully Shadow tech anymore. This is stated explicitly in the second Technomage book. </font></td></tr></table>



------------------
"You do not make history. You can only hope to survive it."

 

[KoshN]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Mondo Londo:
Is this a JMS short story? A comic? I'm not familiar with it...


<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

A Short Story, "Hidden Agendas" by JMS, and it's one of my favorites.

Short Stories, , Published In, Issue, Comments
------------------------------------

Hidden Agendas, Straczynski, J. M. , Babylon 5/Crusade Magazine, May 2000, Number 22, The Ivanova/Warlock Destroyer/Ulkesh's Vorlon Transport/Sheridan/Lyta Story

------------------
KoshN
----------------
Vorlon Empire

"To Live and Die in Starlight"
pilot movie for the new series
"Babylon 5 - The Legend of the Rangers"
January 2, 2002 on The Sci-Fi Channel.
http://www.scifi.com/b5rangers/

 

[KoshN]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by GKarsEye:
Maybe I missed something, but who said that telepaths were programmed to react against shadow tech?

<table bgcolor=black><tr><td bgcolor=black><font size=1 color=white>Spoiler:</font></td></tr><tr><td><font size=2 color=black>Technomages may have shadow tech, but who knows if or how it's been altered through the years? Even if it hasn't been, it's application has, to the point that it's not fully Shadow tech anymore. This is stated explicitly in the second Technomage book. </font></td></tr></table>


<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

<table bgcolor=black><tr><td bgcolor=black><font size=1 color=white>Spoiler:</font></td></tr><tr><td><font size=2 color=black>It's still Shadowtech. The mages are just resisting the impulses (the chaos & destruction programming). Nobody has yet altered the tech itself (e.g. to disable the fail-safe switch and/or remove the chaos & destruction programming).

So far, only the "application" of the tech has been altered, through following The Code. It's still shadowtech and the mages still have to fight the impulses.</font></td></tr></table>


------------------
KoshN
----------------
Vorlon Empire

"To Live and Die in Starlight"
pilot movie for the new series
"Babylon 5 - The Legend of the Rangers"
January 2, 2002 on The Sci-Fi Channel. http://www.scifi.com/b5rangers/


[This message has been edited by KoshN (edited September 15, 2001).]

 

[A_M_Swallow]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>
In 'The Well of Forever' Galen's ship is shown to have sensor technology in advance of the Excalibur's. Only First Ones technology can be that advanced.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

and

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>
No - there is a lot of technology between Minbari (in space for 1200 years) and First Ones (in space for MILLIONS of years).
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Possibly but the Excalibur's sensors are better than those of a Whitestar. The Whitestar's sensors are based on Vorlon technology. The Vorlons may have supplied out of date technology but it was able to detect Shadow Ships. To be better than Vorlon technology the ship would have to contain full first one technology, which strongly suggests Shadowtech with build instructions.




------------------
Andrew Swallow

 

[KoshN]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by A_M_Swallow:
Possibly but the Excalibur's sensors are better than those of a Whitestar. The Whitestar's sensors are based on Vorlon technology. The Vorlons may have supplied out of date technology but it was able to detect Shadow Ships. To be better than Vorlon technology the ship would have to contain full first one technology, which strongly suggests Shadowtech with build instructions.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

What makes you think the Excalibur's sensors are better than those on a Whitestar?

------------------
KoshN
----------------
Vorlon Empire

"To Live and Die in Starlight"
pilot movie for the new series
"Babylon 5 - The Legend of the Rangers"
January 2, 2002 on The Sci-Fi Channel.
http://www.scifi.com/b5rangers/

 

[whitestar90]

Quite easily the Excalibur could scan the shadow death cloud while the whitestars couldn't....

------------------
Emporer Turhan-"How will this end"
Kosh-"In fire"

 

[bakana]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR> To be better than Vorlon technology the ship would have to contain full first one technology, which strongly suggests Shadowtech with build instructions.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Uh, you seem to be forgetting that the vorlons were "full" first Ones.

And that Vorlon Tech and Shadow Tech seem to be mutually antagonistic.
Just like the Designers.

To have better sensors than a White Star may just be a matter of having more Room on the hull to put them.
And more power to run them.

The Excalibur is, after all, a Much Larger ship. It could just as easily been a case of many more sensors being better able to get enough info to create a picture that would just be too fuzzy to resolve for a White Star with a smaller array of sensors feeding data to the computers.




------------------
Yes, I like cats too.
Shall we exchange Recipes?

 

[KoshN]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by bakana:

To have better sensors than a White Star may just be a matter of having more Room on the hull to put them.
And more power to run them.

The Excalibur is, after all, a Much Larger ship. It could just as easily been a case of many more sensors being better able to get enough info to create a picture that would just be too fuzzy to resolve for a White Star with a smaller array of sensors feeding data to the computers.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That's probably it. I get the feeling that the sensor technology on the Whitestars and on the Excalibur are essentially the same tech level, but that the Excalibur just has a wider cross-section (due to the tri-wing design) and more power. Since both the Whitestar and Excalibur use a Minbari powertrain, more room for bigger engines means more power.

Now you have me wondering about arrays of Whitestars (like arrays of radiotelescope dishes on Earth), the sensor ability of a Vorlon Transport, and how much of the Excalibur actually uses Vorlon tech. I suspect it's only main gun. The Excalibur's sensors are probably just the furthest development of Minbari and Earthforce tech, supplied with more power. Recall if you will that the Whitestar uses some Vorlon tech that the Excalibur does not like the Vorlon Defence System (bio-armor). Perhaps Drake didn't get the other Vorlon Tech installed and/or working, on purpose)?

Regarding the sensors of Galen's ship:

Well, the Technomages do

<table bgcolor=black><tr><td bgcolor=black><font size=1 color=white>Spoiler:</font></td></tr><tr><td><font size=2 color=black>construct sensors of their own (Circe makes 'em, and so has Galen). They have probes that are as small as a speck of dust, probes that size that can reposition themselves for a better vantage point, and FTL relays to transmit the probe's data back to the user over distances greater than from B5 to the rim.</font></td></tr></table>

I imagine that's how Galen keeps tabs on where the Excalibur is, so he knows where to find it. The point is that

<table bgcolor=black><tr><td bgcolor=black><font size=1 color=white>Spoiler:</font></td></tr><tr><td><font size=2 color=black>not all of the mages' abilities is shadowtech (which they cannot construct)</font></td></tr></table>

but rather is stuff that they make themselves.

<table bgcolor=black><tr><td bgcolor=black><font size=1 color=white>Spoiler:</font></td></tr><tr><td><font size=2 color=black>The mages have shadowtech </font></td></tr></table>

PLUS they are damn good at technology themselves.

<table bgcolor=black><tr><td bgcolor=black><font size=1 color=white>Spoiler:</font></td></tr><tr><td><font size=2 color=black>Also the mage ships have beam weapons.</font></td></tr></table>

I hope that one day, we get to see them used.

------------------
KoshN
----------------
Vorlon Empire

"To Live and Die in Starlight"
pilot movie for the new series
"Babylon 5 - The Legend of the Rangers"
January 2, 2002 on The Sci-Fi Channel.
http://www.scifi.com/b5rangers/

 

[whitestar90]

Whos says that the vorlons gave the minbari anymore tech other than defensive capabilities.A Sharlin is alot bigger than a whitestar aswell but its sensors could not penetrate the cloud.Anyway Sheriden did say nothing before could scan the cloud....

------------------
Emporer Turhan-"How will this end"
Kosh-"In fire"

[This message has been edited by whitestar90 (edited September 17, 2001).]

 

[Deviot]

I always figured that the technomage's tech started out as shadow tech but then branched off.

So now sure they sue shadow tech but it is intergrated with usful etch from all teh otehr civilization's.

remeber technomage's are not just one race so they have all the technomage's race's technology to pull from..

So in fact they will have shadow tech and the best etch from each civilisation maybe not minbari however as I have not heard of a minbari technomage or much interaction between the two power's.



------------------
Deviot
Lincbot@yahoo.com.au