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Projected 'Crusade' air dates?

Droshalla

Beyond the rim
Projected \'Crusade\' air dates?

Now this may seem a bit of a bazzare issue to raise that is completely pointless, but when studying US air dates and breaks (even though I watch from the UK), I found that Crusade aired uninterrupted from June to September.

Was this just because TNT decided to show it as a mini-series, or was this how every season would have gone? Don't they usually have a big break for reruns (sorry, I know nothing about US TV). Also, don't they usually start in November not June?

I know its a moot point, but just imagine Crusade had gone for 5 seasons, would every season premier in June or do you think it would have gone back to following the re-run pattern? Am I just talking nonsense?
 
Re: Projected \'Crusade\' air dates?

Crusade was ment to be a 5 year show. However (as I am sure many can give the details), Crusade was cancled mid season before it even came on the air. So this isn't 'normal' US tv.
 
Re: Projected \'Crusade\' air dates?

Who knows how Crusade would have aired on a normal network, a sane network? Yes, Crusade was supposed to be 5 seasons (years) of 22 episodes per year, just like B5 was. TNT shut it down (actually twice, and for the last time in Dec. 1998 or Jan. 1999) when they didn't get their way, and tried to cap it at 8, not 13 episodes. They tried to make sure the Gray/Red unifirm episodes never saw the light of day, but were thwarted by Warner Brothers. Then, they tried to save face by calling it a "Limited Series," and ran it in the summer (like USA ran Monk, which is a short season series, 13 episodes per season).

Production Order:
101 The Needs of Earth
102 The Memory of War
103 Racing the Night
104 Visitors from Down the Street
105 Each Night I Dream of Home

The first production shutdown.

106 The Well of Forever
107 The Long Road
108 War Zone
109 The Path of Sorrows
110 Patterns of the Soul
111 Ruling from the Tomb
112 The Rules of the Game
113 Appearances and Other Deceits

The second and final production shutdown.

tntcrater.jpg

NEWS FLASH :
Upon receiving notice
of Crusade's cancellation, the
Excalibur fired it's main gun on
the TNT executive offices today.
(photo courtesy of Hubble telescope)

Babylon 5 Crusade (UK page)
 
Re: Projected \'Crusade\' air dates?

Now this may seem a bit of a bazzare issue to raise that is completely pointless, but when studying US air dates and breaks (even though I watch from the UK), I found that Crusade aired uninterrupted from June to September.

Was this just because TNT decided to show it as a mini-series, or was this how every season would have gone? Don't they usually have a big break for reruns (sorry, I know nothing about US TV). Also, don't they usually start in November not June?

I know its a moot point, but just imagine Crusade had gone for 5 seasons, would every season premier in June or do you think it would have gone back to following the re-run pattern? Am I just talking nonsense?

Leaving aside for the moment any commentary about TNT's involvement in the creative process and looking simply at the scheduling issues...

Most broadcast programs in the US, whether on the networks or in syndication, start their new seasons in the fall and run through the year, interspersing reruns with the first run episodes for most of the year and showing only reruns during the summer, based in large part on certain peculiarities of the Nielsen Media Research ratings service, especially the "sweeps" periods during all local stations get rated individually.

Even on broadcast TV, though, new shows will pop up throughout the year, generally to replace shows that have been cancelled. And in the cable world, things are a little less predictable, due (as you may have guessed) to differences in the ratings service.

Crusade was originally scheduled to start airing in January, and almost certainly would not have aired all 22 episodes in a row. But TNT's involvement in the creative process, which I wasn't going to mention except that it became unavoidable, required that the premiere date be pushed back to allow the production of a new first episode ("War Zone"). There were some hints that the show might start airing in March, but when the basketball players' lockout was unexpectedly settled, TNT's committment to airing the playoffs during April and May came back into play, and it was decided to hold Crusade back until after the playoffs in order not to cause it too much disruption.

At some point after that, production of Crusade was stopped after the 13 episodes, and TNT's programmers concluded that they could get the most out of their already-spent money by billing it as a "limited series" and showing the episodes all in a row.

Of course, none of this really answers your question, because nobody really knows what would've happened. The only example we really have is TNT's run of B5 Season 5 the previous year, which began in January and ran the new episodes in three blocks, with interruptions for the basketball playoffs in April and May, and for a block of reruns during the summer. If I absolutely had to guess, I'd guess that Crusade would have followed a similar pattern.
 
Re: Projected \'Crusade\' air dates?

Marty is right. According to JMS's contemporary usenet posts, everyone originally envisaged Crusade debuting in January 1999, immediately after the debut of A Call to Arms. The fact that ACtA was to air right before "Racing the Night" obviated the need to put too much backstory into the first episode, and allowed the series to "hit the ground running".

TNT later decided to make changes to the show, which meant pushing back the series debut date. But they still wanted to run ACtA in January, and refused to consider rerunning it immediately before series premiered (they thought that would be too soon), so they also demanded a new "first episode" ("War Zone"), chock full of backstory.

Production was shut down for the second and final time in January 1999, before the NBA thing was settled, so the playoffs really weren't a factor in TNT's scheduling decisions. It was more a matter of deciding whether or not to air the show at all. They finally decided to show the episodes once to recoup some of their production expenses and ran the show for 13 straight weeks in the summer of 1999.

Ironically when they finally did air the show, they ran "War Zone" as the first episode, then followed it with A Call to Arms - which made no sense whatsoever. :)

As Marty also noted, and he knows the ratings biz a lot better than I do, most U.S. series generally debut in the fall (once upon a time this always meant September, now anywhere from late August until November) and run blocks of new episodes primarily during the broadcast ratings "sweeps" months of November, Feburary, May and June. The sweeps are the only time that local TV station audiences are measured, and that's how their advertising rates are set. Since most local stations are affiliated with national networks, it makes sense for the networks to run major programming during sweeps to help their affiliates. (This also explains why local news shows always do their major investigative reports on local strip clubs and suburban housewives running prostitution rings during sweeps. :))

The networks get ratings every day based on samples from the largest TV markets, so they aren't as dependent on sweeps as their affiliates - but they do "stunt programming" to help those affiliates. National cable services don't have affiliates, strictly speaking, so they're less locked into the "sweeps" pattern, and this lets them "counter program" to a degree - running new shows when the networks are primarily showing reruns. Sci-Fi, for instance, tended to do a block of new episodes of its original series during the summer, when the networks were almost all reruns. And its highest-ever rated movies have come in December, when the networks again tend to show reruns. (December is not a sweeps month, and over-all TV viewership tends to be down during the holiday season, while once-a-year "specials" abound. There's no point in "wasting" a new episode of a show by airing it during a time like that.)

With most shows running seasons of between 22 and 26 episodes, the typical "TV year" runs from September to May, with blocks of reruns interspersed. The major exception to this pattern is the "mid-season replacement" series, which will generally replace a ratings-challenged show that debuted the previous September sometime around January. This gives the show time to build an audience going into the February sweeps. The Feb sweeps are less important than the critical November (most important) and May (next most) periods. The July sweeps are the least important of all, as viewership tends to decline during the warm weather and extended daylight hours of summer.

Regards,

Joe
 
Re: Projected \'Crusade\' air dates?

WHy can't anything B5 just have a chance, sheesh

The original series did. Despite incredibly long odds the pilot got made, a series was approved and it actually made it to episode 110 and finished the arc. It went on to spawn a half-dozen TV movies which ranged from fair to really good - and of which even the worst was better than 90% of what passes for science fiction on television.

That we didn't get either of the two attempted spin-off series is a shame, but not the end of the world. Most TV shows, even very successful ones, do not lead to spin-offs, or lead to extremely short-lived ones.

I'd say the glass is more than half full. B5 may not have been Star Trek in terms of longevity and marketability, but at least we have on truly excellent series and no series that are an embarassment to the original - something the over-crowded Trek universe cannot claim.

Regards,

Joe
 
Re: Projected \'Crusade\' air dates?

Leaving aside for the moment any commentary about TNT's involvement in the creative process and looking simply at the scheduling issues...

Thanks for that :), I was trying to avoid going into all the TNT debates and "the end of the show" stuff which has been gone over many a time.

So, hypothetically, if everything had gone swimmingly with perfect production and no problems, you think that it would have aired in the November-->May for all 5 seasons, right?

The reason I ask this crazy issue is because I was just trying to imagine when Crusade would have aired its series finale had everything gone perfectly from day one. (I know, I know, it was stupid, but there it is)
 
Re: Projected \'Crusade\' air dates?

Hi Joe...

Just a couple of small nitpicks here...

Production was shut down for the second and final time in January 1999, before the NBA thing was settled, so the playoffs really weren't a factor in TNT's scheduling decisions.

Nope. I went back and checked this one. The NBA settled on January 6. I don't have an exact date for the Crusade shutdown from a quick scan through my disorganized archives (need to do something about that), but as of January 12, "Appearances and Other Deceits" was to start filming "tomorrow".

The other thing that neither of us mentioned is the fact that after TNT decided they didn't want to proceed with the series, WB attempted to sell the show to SciFi. Production went "on hold" around the end of January, but wasn't actually cancelled until those negotiations fell through in February when SciFi determined they couldn't come up with the money, since they had already set their budget for the year.

The July sweeps are the least important of all,

Actually, I believe that should be August. Not that anybody even notices... :)
 
Re: Projected \'Crusade\' air dates?

So, hypothetically, if everything had gone swimmingly with perfect production and no problems, you think that it would have aired in the November-->May for all 5 seasons, right?

The reason I ask this crazy issue is because I was just trying to imagine when Crusade would have aired its series finale had everything gone perfectly from day one. (I know, I know, it was stupid, but there it is)

No, I'd have guessed that each season would probably have started in January, like the first season was originally scheduled, and run from there, with the last new episode airing in late November or in December. The series certainly wouldn't have ended in May, since that's basketball playoff time.
 
Re: Projected \'Crusade\' air dates?

<font color="yellow"> Originally posted by MartinRoth: </font>
Most broadcast programs in the US, whether on the networks or in syndication, start their new seasons in the fall and run through the year, interspersing reruns with the first run episodes for most of the year and showing only reruns during the summer, based in large part on certain peculiarities of the Nielsen Media Research ratings service, especially the "sweeps" periods during all local stations get rated individually.

That doesn't seem to be how they're running Buffy recently, which is getting closer to a "first run - rerun - first run" interleving.



<font color="yellow"> Originally posted by MartinRoth: </font>
At some point after that, production of Crusade was stopped after the 13 episodes, and TNT's programmers concluded that they could get the most out of their already-spent money by billing it as a "limited series" and showing the episodes all in a row.

A "Limited-Series" with "Renegade Rangers." In only one episode did they look "renegade" (The Needs of Earth) and they were never "Rangers" in the B5 sense of the word.




<font color="yellow"> Originally posted by Joseph DeMartino: </font> Marty is right. According to JMS's contemporary usenet posts, everyone originally envisaged Crusade debuting in January 1999, immediately after the debut of A Call to Arms. The fact that ACtA was to air right before "Racing the Night" obviated the need to put too much backstory into the first episode, and allowed the series to "hit the ground running".

TNT later decided to make changes to the show,...

Later when? The first production shutdown. Do you know what month that was?


<font color="yellow"> Originally posted by Joseph DeMartino: </font> ...which meant pushing back the series debut date. But they still wanted to run ACtA in January, and refused to consider rerunning it immediately before series premiered (they thought that would be too soon),

And that was a ridiculous conclusion on their part. To this day, nobody seems capable of airing ACtA immediately before a run of Crusade. Wonder why. It would seem to be a no-brainer.


<font color="yellow"> Originally posted by Joseph DeMartino: </font> ... so they also demanded a new "first episode" ("War Zone"), chock full of backstory.

...and exposition, especially at the end of the ep.



<font color="yellow"> Originally posted by Joseph DeMartino: </font> Production was shut down for the second and final time in January 1999, before the NBA thing was settled, so the playoffs really weren't a factor in TNT's scheduling decisions.


Do you know when (what month) JMS walked off the show?
Re.: http://makeashorterlink.com/?S24212544

Just wondered if it coincided with a production shutdown, or if he came back before a production shotdown was needed.




<font color="yellow"> Originally posted by Joseph DeMartino: </font> Ironically when they finally did air the show, they ran "War Zone" as the first episode, then followed it with A Call to Arms - which made no sense whatsoever. :)

And like I said above, STILL, nobody seems to "get" that they should air ACtA right before "Racing the Night." :confused:


<font color="yellow"> Originally posted by Joseph DeMartino: </font> Sci-Fi, for instance, tended to do a block of new episodes of its original series during the summer, when the networks were almost all reruns.

USA ran "Monk" (the first run eps.) in the summer, though they seem to be running "The Dead Zone" as a more traditional series, with a Fall-Spring schedule. Didn't TNT run "Witchblade" in the summer?


<font color="yellow"> Originally posted by Joseph DeMartino: </font> The original series (B5) did. Despite incredibly long odds the pilot got made, a series was approved and it actually made it to episode 110 and finished the arc.

...in a different environment than we have now. Lucky for us, B5 came out when it did. :)


<font color="yellow"> Originally posted by Joseph DeMartino: </font> It went on to spawn a half-dozen TV movies which ranged from fair to really good - and of which even the worst was better than 90% of what passes for science fiction on television.

That says about B5/Crusade about as much as it says about the current quality level of sci-fi on TV. :rolleyes: :( Personally, I'd put some current stuff (e.g. SG-1) above two of the B5 movies ("The River of Souls" & "To Live and Die in Starlight").


<font color="yellow"> Originally posted by Joseph DeMartino: </font> That we didn't get either of the two attempted spin-off series is a shame, but not the end of the world. Most TV shows, even very successful ones, do not lead to spin-offs, or lead to extremely short-lived ones.

I'd say the glass is more than half full. B5 may not have been Star Trek in terms of longevity and marketability, but at least we have on truly excellent series and no series that are an embarassment to the original - something the over-crowded Trek universe cannot claim.

It's indeed a shame. If any series deserved a successful spin-off, it's B5. It still deserves a successful spin-off. Regarding "no series that are an embarassment," some people might disagree with you (on Crusade), not me though. ;)



<font color="yellow"> Originally posted by Droshalla: </font> So, hypothetically, if everything had gone swimmingly with perfect production and no problems, you think that it would have aired in the November-->May for all 5 seasons, right?

Doubtful, since the first season's production started too late for that. Maybe January-->September, a little offset?
 
Re: Projected \'Crusade\' air dates?

No, I'd have guessed that each season would probably have started in January, like the first season was originally scheduled, and run from there, with the last new episode airing in late November or in December.

Okay, thanks for that. It all (well nearly all) makes sense to me now. :)

So that would give us a projected Series Finale US air date of November 2003. Objective achieved... even though as a fan from the UK I wouldn't have got to see it until much later (or perhaps not so much later given Channel 4's speed with B5 Season 5)
 
Re: Projected \'Crusade\' air dates?

Doubtful, since the first season's production started too late for that.

Remember that I said "hypothetically, if everything had gone swimmingly with perfect production and no problems".

But yes, January-->Sep/Oct/Nov seems most plausible.
 
Re: Projected \'Crusade\' air dates?

Doubtful, since the first season's production started too late for that.

Remember that I said "hypothetically, if everything had gone swimmingly with perfect production and no problems".

But yes, January-->Sep/Oct/Nov seems most plausible.

Still, production only started is the summer of 1998, so it's inlikely that they'd have been ready to start with a traditional fall 1998 schedule, even if things had gone swimmingly.

Script Dates in order by latest rev. date:
<ul type="square">
[*]Racing the Night, Final Draft 06/24/1998.
[*]The Memory of War, Final Draft 07/09/1998.
[*]The Needs of Earth, Blue Revisions 07/30/1998.
[*]Visitors from Down the Street, Final Draft 07/10/1998, Blue Revisions 08/26/1998.
[*]Each Night I Dream of Home, Final Draft 08/19/1998, Blue Revisions 09/08/1998, Pink Revisions 09/09/1998.
[*]The Rules of the Game, Final Draft 10/12/1998.
[*]The Well of Forever, Final Draft 08/10/1998, Blue Revisions 09/09/1998, Pink Revisions 10/12/1998, Yellow Revisions 10/15/1998.
[*]War Zone, Final Draft 10/19/1998.
[*]The Long Road, Final Draft 10/20/1998.
[*]The Path of Sorrows, Final Draft 08/31/1998, Blue Revisions 10/12/1998, Pink Revisions 11/06/1998, Yellow Revisions 11/12/1998.
[*]Patterns of the Soul, Final Draft 08/11/1998, Blue Revisions 11/11/1998, Pink Revisions 11/23/1998.
[*]Value Judgements, Final Draft 01/12/1999.

[*]Ruling from the Tomb, N/A (don't have this one).
[*]Appearances and Other Deceits, N/A (don't have this one).
[/list]
 
Re: Projected \'Crusade\' air dates?

Still, production only started is the summer of 1998, so it's inlikely that they'd have been ready to start with a traditional fall 1998 schedule, even if things had gone swimmingly.

Yep. January 1999 was the original plan, back before any of the problems started.
 
Re: Projected \'Crusade\' air dates?

All we need now is some kind of doorway... maybe there's an old one made by the Vorlons rolling around hyperspace somewhere, another mistake out of so many?
 
Re: Projected \'Crusade\' air dates?

All we need now is some kind of doorway... maybe there's an old one made by the Vorlons rolling around hyperspace somewhere, another mistake out of so many?

A doorway to a universe where Crusade continued, where there was no TNT-Atlanta interference, where Sci-Fi had a brain? That'd be no mistake! Just don't let any TNT or Skiffy suits through the doorway. :eek:

I'm thinking we could have a device like in SG-1's "Thor's Hammer," only set to detect TNT/Sci-Fi suits, and put the Spell of Destruction on 'em. :devil: :D ...or maybe we could have Bill Mumy banish 'em to the cornfield. :devil: :D
 
Re: Projected \'Crusade\' air dates?

[*]Ruling from the Tomb, N/A (don't have this one).
[*]Appearances and Other Deceits, N/A (don't have this one).

YET!!!! One of us will get these someday :D
 
Re: Projected \'Crusade\' air dates?

[*]Ruling from the Tomb, N/A (don't have this one).
[*]Appearances and Other Deceits, N/A (don't have this one).

YET!!!! One of us will get these someday :D

Just wish we'd see them come up for auction separate from the rest.
 

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