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Lochley's Role **SPOILER WARNING**

D

Delbert

Beyond the rim
Lochley\'s Role **SPOILER WARNING**

This relies on the unfilmed end-of season episode. If you don't want to know what happened in there ... GO AWAY!
tongue.gif
I'm not going to put the whole post in a spoiler box, because then the whole thread would have to be. Thanks!

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Okay, for those of you still here ... I was watching "Needs of Earth" the other day, and it made me think about Lochley's role in Crusade. And then I thought about Gideon's possible assassination at the end of the first season. And I wondered: was Lochley going to take over the Excalibur? I know that this would be overly similar to B5's Sinclair/Sheridan swapover, but it's a possibility.

Come to think of it, it's more likely that she was going to support the Excalibur once it had gone rogue.

Anyone any other thoughts on this?

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Re: Lochley\'s Role **SPOILER WARNING**

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Delbert:
This relies on the unfilmed end-of season episode. If you don't want to know what happened in there ... GO AWAY!
tongue.gif
I'm not going to put the whole post in a spoiler box, because then the whole thread would have to be. Thanks!

*

*

*

Okay, for those of you still here ... I was watching "Needs of Earth" the other day, and it made me think about Lochley's role in Crusade. And then I thought about Gideon's possible assassination at the end of the first season. And I wondered: was Lochley going to take over the Excalibur? I know that this would be overly similar to B5's Sinclair/Sheridan swapover, but it's a possibility.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I really doubt this. Gideon wouldn't be killed off. It's just a cliffhanger. We don't know what Galen does. We'll find out in S2#1 (thinking positively again
smile.gif
).


<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>
Come to think of it, it's more likely that she was going to support the Excalibur once it had gone rogue.

Anyone any other thoughts on this?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Entirely possible, from B5.

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KoshN
-------------
Vorlon Empire

"To Live and Die in Starlight"
pilot movie for "Babylon 5 - The Legend of the Rangers"
January 2002 on The Sci-Fi Channel.
http://www.scifi.com/b5rangers/
 
Re: Lochley\'s Role **SPOILER WARNING**

I think the latter would have been highly possible too.

From what I thought of the spoilers on Crusade, I reckon that they would have gone on the run ala Blakes 7 (jms used to like that a lot when it was on and the Drazi Sunhawk design was supposed to be a take on the Liberator).

It would be very weird and full of twists. The Earth government themselves would not be dodgy, as they would have little or no knowledge of a covert organisation working within Earthforce and most notably in Earthforce's R&D dept.

The fact that the former Nightwatch Rep... Mr Welles is still at large goes to show just how much clearing up there is to do back home, heck even Bester is still on the run.

Excalibur would go rogue, and Earthforce would be influenced into ostricising the crew and putting out an arrest order out on them. Nobody would be with them at first, the ISA would not know, at best they would suspect there would be a VERY good reason why an Earthforce Captain would go renegade when the fate of his people was at stake.

Even Lochley would not know at first, she'd probably be asked to keep B5 on alert in case the Excalibur showed up.

She'd eventually get round to talking to Gideon and realising what the heck was going on! Even she would have to tread carefully about exposing Earthforce, or rather the covert evil working within.

I actually reckon that the EA has actually got the cure from the ship downed early on in the season. I reckon the covert organisation abusing the Earth Alliance is keeping it under wraps in the hope that Excalibur will provide an endless supply of alien tech for them to research and improve their covert technology. The five year mission is just a cover for their master plan. People on Earth are dying because these people value the technological progress of humanity above humnas themselves. After 5 years they'd bring out the antidote and say there there all better, and a few years later a whole new generation of alien Earth ships is unveiled as if by magic. These groups have existed even in B5, remember what happened to the Ikaaran defence bio-tech in season 1. These peoples fates was left largely unresolved and Crusade offered a great opportunity to at last bring them to account!

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"We Live for the One. We die for the One!"
 
Re: Lochley\'s Role **SPOILER WARNING**

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>I really doubt this. Gideon wouldn't be killed off. It's just a cliffhanger. We don't know what Galen does. We'll find out in S2#1 (thinking positively again).<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It will be interesting to see what, if anything, Galen is able to do about it. Unless Jeanne pulls something out in Book III of the technomage trilogy, we know that Galen's healing magic flat out sucks.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>She'd eventually get round to talking to Gideon and realising what the heck was going on! Even she would have to tread carefully about exposing Earthforce, or rather the covert evil working within.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes, she stuck with EarthForce during Clark, and doesn't seem to regret it one bit. I think she'd support Gideon, but she'd be fighting a big moral battle with herself in doing so.

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I'm lobbying for someplace more comfortable for our next gathering place. A nice resort with a beach. A bunch of pale skinned technomages in black robes would fit right in.

[This message has been edited by Derian (edited October 23, 2001).]
 
Re: Lochley\'s Role **SPOILER WARNING**

I really doubt this. Gideon wouldn't be killed off. It's just a cliffhanger. /QUOTE]

ITA! Just because Gideon is shot, doesn't mean that Gideon is dead. At the end of Season 1 of B5, you might have thought that Garibaldi was a goner, but he wasn't.

They used the life force transfer machine to bring him back, the same machine Marcus used to bring Ivanova back, the same machine that we assume is still on B5.

And who's Captain of B5? Oh yes, Gideon's girlfriend.

Just speculation, but fun.
laugh.gif


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Demon
Click to expand...
 
Re: Lochley\'s Role **SPOILER WARNING**

I don't believe gideon dies in series 1 or 2. Mind you, I don't believe Avon dies in Blakes 7 either.


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Re: Lochley\'s Role **SPOILER WARNING**

I was really interested to see what would have happened to Lochley were the the series to go on (seeing as she was in the opening credits and all.) There was real potential in that character. A lot could have happened in five years... many people complained about the Lochley/Gideon shower thing, but for me it was just an affirmation about how different those two were from, say, Sheridan and Delenn, and how *different* Crusade was.

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Channe, the next JMS, who lives for the One and dies for the chocolate cheesecake
--
OnlineDude: I suppose now would not be the time to bring up the old one about the starlet who was so new to Hollywood she slept with the writer...
JMS: But that was only because she heard that in Hollywood, *everyone* screws the writer.
 
Re: Lochley\'s Role **SPOILER WARNING**

I think Lochley probably would have stuck with Earthforce. At the end of that episode, they seemed to have just understood that it was your typical heat-of-the-moment fling and didn't mean anything.

Then again, maybe that was just a symptom of something larger that would have developed if we had kept on watching these two?

But we'll never know!!!!

AGH, makes me crazy thinking about it.

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Channe, the next JMS, who lives for the One and dies for the chocolate cheesecake
--
OnlineDude: I suppose now would not be the time to bring up the old one about the starlet who was so new to Hollywood she slept with the writer...
JMS: But that was only because she heard that in Hollywood, *everyone* screws the writer.
 
Re: Lochley\'s Role **SPOILER WARNING**

I can't imagine Lochley taking over the Excalibur as Captain. I don't think she is popular enough with the fans and JMS is pretty canny about that sort of thing. Don't forget the crew would have to support the new Captain. I think it's more likely that Gideon survives the attack and Matheson takes over in the interim.

Just another wild guess.
crazy.gif


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Re: Lochley\'s Role **SPOILER WARNING**

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by channe:
Then again, maybe that was just a symptom of something larger that would have developed if we had kept on watching these two?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That would be doubly interesting if you put that together with your initial thought, that Lochley would side with Earthforce if and when the Excalibur crew rebelled.

Imagine how heart-wrenching that would be Lochley and Gideon if that one moment really did mean something to them. A classic jms reversal. That which seemed like a shallow, passing thing, an abberation fueled by adrenaline, turns out to be a lasting bond at the worst possible moment for them.

As for Galen's healing abilities and whether he could help Gideon, here's another wicked Crusade thought. By the end of the season ender, Gideon pretty clearly wants to stamp out Shadow tech, but comes to distrust Galen. So if Galen used that tech to save his life, Gideon wouldn't know who to hate more: Galen, for making him indebited to the very atrocity he's sworn to wipe out; or himself, now that his guilt for surviving the Cerberus becomes all the more damning in his own eyes.

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Joe Medina (neargrai@aol.com)

"...that which are, we are"
 
Re: Lochley\'s Role **SPOILER WARNING**

Ugh! Now I want to see more Crusade!

JMS said the Rangers series would tackle what Crusade would have tackled... but I'd much rather see Gideon do it. I really, really was intrigued by Gideon.

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Channe, the next JMS, who lives for the One and dies for the chocolate cheesecake
--
OnlineDude: I suppose now would not be the time to bring up the old one about the starlet who was so new to Hollywood she slept with the writer...
JMS: But that was only because she heard that in Hollywood, *everyone* screws the writer.
 
Re: Lochley\'s Role **SPOILER WARNING**

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by channe:
Ugh! Now I want to see more Crusade!

JMS said the Rangers series would tackle what Crusade would have tackled... but I'd much rather see Gideon do it. I really, really was intrigued by Gideon.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Actually, I believe he said that Rangers might handle some of the issues brought up in Crusade. It wouldn't be about the same stuff with different people.

I'm sorry if I misunderstood you channe, but I just wanted to clear that up.



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"You do not make history. You can only hope to survive it."
 
Re: Lochley\'s Role **SPOILER WARNING**

No prob, GKarsEye, that's what I meant.

Hmm - wonder if Martel will take the Gideon-role, then?

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Channe, the next JMS, who lives for the One and dies for the chocolate cheesecake
--
OnlineDude: I suppose now would not be the time to bring up the old one about the starlet who was so new to Hollywood she slept with the writer...
JMS: But that was only because she heard that in Hollywood, *everyone* screws the writer.
 
Re: Lochley\'s Role **SPOILER WARNING**

Are these two scripts still available at bookface.com?

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-jmb
 
Re: Lochley\'s Role **SPOILER WARNING**

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JMB1138:
Are these two scripts still available at bookface.com?

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

No, not for a long time.
frown.gif


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KoshN
-------------
Vorlon Empire

"To Live and Die in Starlight"
pilot movie for "Babylon 5 - The Legend of the Rangers"
January 2002 on The Sci-Fi Channel.
http://www.scifi.com/b5rangers/
 
Re: Lochley\'s Role **SPOILER WARNING**

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by bakana:
No chance that machine is still on Babylon 5.
I'd bet the first thing that was done after they realized what Marcus had done was to pack it up and ship it to a research facility on Minbar.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

crazy.gif
It was left in Franklin's custody, and he went to head up the Xenobiology Section on Earth.

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KoshN
-------------
Vorlon Empire

"To Live and Die in Starlight"
pilot movie for "Babylon 5 - The Legend of the Rangers"
January 2002 on The Sci-Fi Channel.
http://www.scifi.com/b5rangers/
 
Re: Lochley\'s Role **SPOILER WARNING**

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by GKarsEye:
No, see, that's what I meant. In a Rangers series, Gideon, the Excalibur, and the whole Crusade story would still happen. The way I see it, the events in Crusade do happen as they were meant to, we just don't get to see it (thank you very much, TNT
mad.gif
). The Rangers series might just tell us what happened as it relates to the Rangers story arc.

Martel can't take over the Gideon-role, because Gideon still has it.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

GKarsEye is 100% right.
smile.gif


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KoshN
-------------
Vorlon Empire

"To Live and Die in Starlight"
pilot movie for "Babylon 5 - The Legend of the Rangers"
January 2002 on The Sci-Fi Channel.
http://www.scifi.com/b5rangers/
 
Re: Lochley\'s Role **SPOILER WARNING**

I don't recall that it was ever said What happened to the alien healing machine after Marcus.
That's why I posted speculation about what I think is most Likely to have been done with it.
The only thing we know for sure is that neither Sheridan, Delenn or Franklin wanted it ever used again. It was originally left in Franklin's custody so that he could research how it worked in order to learn to build a Benign version of it.

One that didn't require a sacrificial victim to cure someone.

I think that, after Marcus, they would have decided it needed to be moved to someplace more Secure.
Certainly not Earth. Too many crooked politicians.
If they ever got wind of its True capabilities, it would become someone's private "Fountain of Youth".

One additional possibility is that they might ask Draal to place it with all the Other stuff he is saving until the various races are "ready".



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The 3 most common elements in the Universe:
Hydrogen, Greed, Stupidity!

[This message has been edited by bakana (edited October 24, 2001).]
 
Re: Lochley\'s Role **SPOILER WARNING**

I don't think they'd use that plot device ever again. It had its time; bringing it back would start to become a deus ex machina and would be really stupid storytelling.

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Channe, the next JMS, who lives for the One and dies for the chocolate cheesecake
--
OnlineDude: I suppose now would not be the time to bring up the old one about the starlet who was so new to Hollywood she slept with the writer...
JMS: But that was only because she heard that in Hollywood, *everyone* screws the writer.
 
Re: Lochley\'s Role **SPOILER WARNING**

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR> They used the life force transfer machine to bring him back, the same machine Marcus used to bring Ivanova back, the same machine that we assume is still on B5.

And who's Captain of B5? Oh yes, Gideon's girlfriend.

Just speculation, but fun. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

No chance that machine is still on Babylon 5.
I'd bet the first thing that was done after they realized what Marcus had done was to pack it up and ship it to a research facility on Minbar.

They had already forbidden any further use of it after using it on Garibaldi.
Evidently it's effects on Sheridan & Franklin were enough to convince them it was too dangerous to mess with any more without a Lot of research.

And, by that time, I seriously doubt either Sheridan OR Franklin would have trusted it to anyone in Earthgov.
Both of them knew that, if they did, there would have been a sudden surge of robust Good Health among the ranks of senior politicians and an epidemic of mysterious ailments in the local jails.



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The 3 most common elements in the Universe:
Hydrogen, Greed, Stupidity!
 
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