Mondo Londo
Regular
Thanks for explaining that to me!
-
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Keffer
- Thread starter ElScorcho
- Start date
hypatia
Regular
</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
also couldn't handle the prostheitcs so wanted out. Could she not have decided this before she started?
[/quote]
I have wondered how much of the "prosthetics problem" is a politically correct way of saying "I want out". But seriously, from what I have read, those with problems with the extreme make-up and prosthetics don't have a reaction necessarily at first. It's more the wear and tear after reagularly repeated putting it all on and stripping it all off.
I don't like make-up, but had to wear it when I was acting in h.s. and college. (A side interest that kept me from going crazy.) Every time I took that make-up off my skin felt like it had been stripped. That makes sense, since it had been. And I'd only be in relatively light make-up for a few nights a year. Some of these prosthetics have to be GLUED on. /forums/images/icons/rolleyes.gif
Youch. Poor face. And remember these actors live or die by thier faces, sometimes. I remember reading about Virginia Hey's problem with her character on Farscape. She had to shave her eyebrows, and she hated how that tended to eliminate all expression.
also couldn't handle the prostheitcs so wanted out. Could she not have decided this before she started?
[/quote]
I have wondered how much of the "prosthetics problem" is a politically correct way of saying "I want out". But seriously, from what I have read, those with problems with the extreme make-up and prosthetics don't have a reaction necessarily at first. It's more the wear and tear after reagularly repeated putting it all on and stripping it all off.
I don't like make-up, but had to wear it when I was acting in h.s. and college. (A side interest that kept me from going crazy.) Every time I took that make-up off my skin felt like it had been stripped. That makes sense, since it had been. And I'd only be in relatively light make-up for a few nights a year. Some of these prosthetics have to be GLUED on. /forums/images/icons/rolleyes.gif
Youch. Poor face. And remember these actors live or die by thier faces, sometimes. I remember reading about Virginia Hey's problem with her character on Farscape. She had to shave her eyebrows, and she hated how that tended to eliminate all expression.
Recoil
Regular
Joe,
I was of the understanding that Sinclair WAS going to have that close connection to the Shadows, in that Cathrine Sakai was always surveying far away worlds, would get too close to the rim, and get snatched up by the Shadows, then come back ala Anna Sheridan at a later time. They were due to be married so it would have certainly been a close personal tie. You are right, that there are other characters as well that JMS had possibly set up for the role, but that was probably intentional too.
I always thought the problem wasnt that Sinclair wasnt set up for the close personal tie to the Shadows (as I think he was via Sakai), but it was a BELIEVABILITY problem. Who would realistically believe that one character, in the span of 5 years, could command B5, break away from Earth and President Clark, lose his wife to the Shadows, fight the Shadows and end the Shadow war, Free Earth...oh, yea, and by the way, the entire time he needs to be secretly working with the Minbari and the Rangers because his destiny is to become a rather important Minbari figure.
That last part was the catch to me. Sheridan pulled off everything proceding it just fine, but the CHARACTER that Sinclair was supposed to become really clashed with the TYPE of character that had to do all the previous stuff. Plus there was no time for him to go to Minbar, learn Minbari ways, train and revive the Rangers, all stuff his future character demanded him to do. There just was no time for it. At least thats my opinion.
Regarding Zach as the "everyman" character. Yea I think he was written well for that role, and Jeff Conaway did a great job with it. I think GKE posted this once here before, but I think one of the BEST "Zach" moments was actually in the TV Movie Thirdspace. When he was in the elevator trying to ask Lyta out, when she was in that trance. You couldnt help but cringe watching him do it and feel uncomfortable for the guy. Brilliant scene.
I was of the understanding that Sinclair WAS going to have that close connection to the Shadows, in that Cathrine Sakai was always surveying far away worlds, would get too close to the rim, and get snatched up by the Shadows, then come back ala Anna Sheridan at a later time. They were due to be married so it would have certainly been a close personal tie. You are right, that there are other characters as well that JMS had possibly set up for the role, but that was probably intentional too.
I always thought the problem wasnt that Sinclair wasnt set up for the close personal tie to the Shadows (as I think he was via Sakai), but it was a BELIEVABILITY problem. Who would realistically believe that one character, in the span of 5 years, could command B5, break away from Earth and President Clark, lose his wife to the Shadows, fight the Shadows and end the Shadow war, Free Earth...oh, yea, and by the way, the entire time he needs to be secretly working with the Minbari and the Rangers because his destiny is to become a rather important Minbari figure.
That last part was the catch to me. Sheridan pulled off everything proceding it just fine, but the CHARACTER that Sinclair was supposed to become really clashed with the TYPE of character that had to do all the previous stuff. Plus there was no time for him to go to Minbar, learn Minbari ways, train and revive the Rangers, all stuff his future character demanded him to do. There just was no time for it. At least thats my opinion.
Regarding Zach as the "everyman" character. Yea I think he was written well for that role, and Jeff Conaway did a great job with it. I think GKE posted this once here before, but I think one of the BEST "Zach" moments was actually in the TV Movie Thirdspace. When he was in the elevator trying to ask Lyta out, when she was in that trance. You couldnt help but cringe watching him do it and feel uncomfortable for the guy. Brilliant scene.
D
**DONOTDELETE**
Guest
I believe Kosh was played by Jeffrey Willerth... or was he the voice of Kosh, and someone else scampered about in the encounter-suit?
hypatia
Regular
Elizar: I think Keffer was in more ep.s than Morden or Kosh were. Besides, his place in the credits might have been decided initially. Back when JMS thought he would use that character more. Then he'd keep it there just to make it more of a shock when he killed him off.
Lennier: I have wondered that, too. I asked him once, in an online chat at scifi.com, but that question didn't get answered. So I dont' know.
Lennier: I have wondered that, too. I asked him once, in an online chat at scifi.com, but that question didn't get answered. So I dont' know.
Joseph DeMartino
Moderator
Jeffery Willerth was in the Kosh suit, Ardwright Chamberlain provided the voice.
Neither Kosh nor Morden were regular characters, however. JMS deliberately kept their appearances down to avoid having them lose their menace and mystery, so it made more sense to credit them on an episode-by-episode basis. (There are also a limited number of budget slots for regulars, and then there's the whole question of residuals.)
Keffer was originally intended to be used more, and was deliberately made prominent so his likely eventual death would have more impact. (It isn't too often that an "above the title" star gets whacked, and the technique can be quite effective. Ask Alfred Hitchcock.) As the season developed Keffer didn't pan out to JMS's satisfication, but by that time it was too late to cut him out of the credits, so JMS just offed him in the final episode.
Regarding Zack's scene in the elevator:
</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
>B) How many takes did it require to get the scene?
Not many, he nailed it just fine every time.
Funny thing about that scene... we were told before filming that the script was 8-10 minutes longer than it should be, and I had to make cuts. I didn't agree, but the director was very concerned, so with great reluctance, I snipped about 8 minutes out.
So on practically the last day of filming, we get a report from the film editor that we're about 6 minutes *short*. The director suggested ways to expand the last few shots, and we could add some more CGI, but it wasn't nearly enough. I now had to write a new scene to make up the difference. (If I'd not had to make the cuts in the stuff shot to that point, we'd've been fine.)
Given that it was the last day or so, we'd already released a number of the cast, and struck many of the sets. I asked what we had left to work with. We had Zack, and Lyta, some extras...and an elevator. So with that in mind, I wrote that scene in about 20 minutes and turned it over to Jeff, who memorized the lines overnight and showed up the next morning and nailed the scene.
jms
[/quote]
And yes, JMS probably did have some kind of preliminary plans to give Sinclair a connection to the Shadows. That's what I meant when I said that when it came time to actually start plotting out the episodes in detail, JMS realized that it all seemed contrived. (Since he mentions trying several things, I assume the whole Sakai/Shadow business was only one of many possibilities. I still don't think that JMS ever meant it to track exactly with what became the Anna Sheridan story. For one thing, the Shadows are already active before Sakai could conceivably have disappeared. I think Sakai's problems would be with IPX or a similar Earth corporation with ties to the Shadows. IIRC JMS hinted at that being part of the character arc of both Sakai and Carolyn Sykes from the pilot.)
It was precisely the plausibility issue that created the problem, but I probably didn't indicate that clearly enough.
Regards,
Joe
Neither Kosh nor Morden were regular characters, however. JMS deliberately kept their appearances down to avoid having them lose their menace and mystery, so it made more sense to credit them on an episode-by-episode basis. (There are also a limited number of budget slots for regulars, and then there's the whole question of residuals.)
Keffer was originally intended to be used more, and was deliberately made prominent so his likely eventual death would have more impact. (It isn't too often that an "above the title" star gets whacked, and the technique can be quite effective. Ask Alfred Hitchcock.) As the season developed Keffer didn't pan out to JMS's satisfication, but by that time it was too late to cut him out of the credits, so JMS just offed him in the final episode.
Regarding Zack's scene in the elevator:
</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
>B) How many takes did it require to get the scene?
Not many, he nailed it just fine every time.
Funny thing about that scene... we were told before filming that the script was 8-10 minutes longer than it should be, and I had to make cuts. I didn't agree, but the director was very concerned, so with great reluctance, I snipped about 8 minutes out.
So on practically the last day of filming, we get a report from the film editor that we're about 6 minutes *short*. The director suggested ways to expand the last few shots, and we could add some more CGI, but it wasn't nearly enough. I now had to write a new scene to make up the difference. (If I'd not had to make the cuts in the stuff shot to that point, we'd've been fine.)
Given that it was the last day or so, we'd already released a number of the cast, and struck many of the sets. I asked what we had left to work with. We had Zack, and Lyta, some extras...and an elevator. So with that in mind, I wrote that scene in about 20 minutes and turned it over to Jeff, who memorized the lines overnight and showed up the next morning and nailed the scene.
jms
[/quote]
And yes, JMS probably did have some kind of preliminary plans to give Sinclair a connection to the Shadows. That's what I meant when I said that when it came time to actually start plotting out the episodes in detail, JMS realized that it all seemed contrived. (Since he mentions trying several things, I assume the whole Sakai/Shadow business was only one of many possibilities. I still don't think that JMS ever meant it to track exactly with what became the Anna Sheridan story. For one thing, the Shadows are already active before Sakai could conceivably have disappeared. I think Sakai's problems would be with IPX or a similar Earth corporation with ties to the Shadows. IIRC JMS hinted at that being part of the character arc of both Sakai and Carolyn Sykes from the pilot.)
It was precisely the plausibility issue that created the problem, but I probably didn't indicate that clearly enough.
Regards,
Joe
</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
Jeffery Willerth was in the Kosh suit, Ardwright Chamberlain provided the voice.
[/quote]
Not only that, but Jeffery Willerth married Pat Tallman (Lyta) in 1999 (or they were at least engaged then). There's a cute picture of her kissing him inside the Kosh encounter suit ... I'm a bit too tired right now to go searching for it though.
Got to be a Vorlon and marry the cute red-headed teep ... lucky man. /forums/images/icons/wink.gif
Edit typoes: Should not post when too tired! /forums/images/icons/tongue.gif
Jeffery Willerth was in the Kosh suit, Ardwright Chamberlain provided the voice.
[/quote]
Not only that, but Jeffery Willerth married Pat Tallman (Lyta) in 1999 (or they were at least engaged then). There's a cute picture of her kissing him inside the Kosh encounter suit ... I'm a bit too tired right now to go searching for it though.
Got to be a Vorlon and marry the cute red-headed teep ... lucky man. /forums/images/icons/wink.gif
Edit typoes: Should not post when too tired! /forums/images/icons/tongue.gif
Joseph DeMartino
Moderator
</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
Not only that, but Jeffery Willerth married Pat Tallman (Lyta) in 1999
[/quote]
Yes, he did. The bastard. Thanks ever-so-much for bringing that up. /forums/images/icons/smile.gif
Regards,
Joe
Not only that, but Jeffery Willerth married Pat Tallman (Lyta) in 1999
[/quote]
Yes, he did. The bastard. Thanks ever-so-much for bringing that up. /forums/images/icons/smile.gif
Regards,
Joe
Mondo Londo
Regular
</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
on the rebound.
[/quote]
And looking for tea and sympathy. Know anyone who could provide that, Joe?
on the rebound.
[/quote]
And looking for tea and sympathy. Know anyone who could provide that, Joe?
Joseph DeMartino
Moderator
Chamberlain did all of the Vorlons. Kosh I and II were deliberately made to sound different from one another. I'm not sure I ever noticed a difference between Chamberlain's performance in "WWE" and Kosh Vader in S4, but if there was one it was probably "WWE" was the first time he did the role, and he and JMS may have tweaked the characterization later. (Or maybe Ulkesh was in a reasonably good mood on Minbar and really pissed off by the time Kosh was killed and he transferred to B5. /forums/images/icons/smile.gif)
Regards,
Joe
Regards,
Joe
Joseph DeMartino
Moderator
</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
I just figured it could be anyone because of the encounter suit.
[/quote]
You might think so, but Kosh really does come across as a character, and you can't get that with a stagehand in a suit. Jefferey actually manages a very subtle performance though all that fiberglass or whatever it is. Kosh turns his head just so at just the right moment to somehow convey what he's thinking, often without benefit of dialogue. (I believer the iris for Kosh's "eye", which is also important in the peformance, was controlled by off-camera pupetteers, but I'd have to check that. Maybe Jefferey held the remote.)
It is really is more of an acting challenge to get a character across under heavy makeup or a plastic shell than it is otherwise, and keeping it all consistent enough from episode to episode to make the audience believe there really is a Vorlon in there was a major (and under-appreciated) acheivement. Even moreso when he made Kosh II so obviously different later. I think you could have told the two apart even if they had worn identical encounter suits, and that's not easy to pull off.
Regards,
Joe
I just figured it could be anyone because of the encounter suit.
[/quote]
You might think so, but Kosh really does come across as a character, and you can't get that with a stagehand in a suit. Jefferey actually manages a very subtle performance though all that fiberglass or whatever it is. Kosh turns his head just so at just the right moment to somehow convey what he's thinking, often without benefit of dialogue. (I believer the iris for Kosh's "eye", which is also important in the peformance, was controlled by off-camera pupetteers, but I'd have to check that. Maybe Jefferey held the remote.)
It is really is more of an acting challenge to get a character across under heavy makeup or a plastic shell than it is otherwise, and keeping it all consistent enough from episode to episode to make the audience believe there really is a Vorlon in there was a major (and under-appreciated) acheivement. Even moreso when he made Kosh II so obviously different later. I think you could have told the two apart even if they had worn identical encounter suits, and that's not easy to pull off.
Regards,
Joe
