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In the beginning

A

Arrghman

Beyond the rim
visually this is probably my least favorite b5 movie... thirdspace was MUCH better, theres lots of little things all over ItB that annoy me

besides that... well... i still like thirdspace better, but i liked ItB better then the other original b5 movies

one thing that irks me... the way that sinclair is handled, it was just so quick... it reduced a major plot point of the first season as well as a major revalation of the show to a few seconds of reused footage. if i hadnt seen the full explanation already from the show, i would have thought it was *very* contrived and very much like a deus ex machina... all of a sudden sinclair drops in and oops, the wars over

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### Hi, I'm a sig virus. Please add me to the end of your signature so I can take over the world.### - caught from Saps @ B5MG
 
I'm really happy to find someone else who liked Thirdspace. It's one of my favorites. However, the main reason I enjoyed ItB was because it tied all the loose threads together. That said, I would advise a newcomer to B5 to wait until after "War Without End" before watching it. There are too many spoilers in it without proper explanations. Also, both versions of Delenn are in it which must be confusing to a novice viewer.

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I always seem to be diagonally parked in a parallel universe.
 
I will have to say that "In the Beggining",IMHO, is by far the best B5 movie. I also consider it one of the best scifi movies ever. I still have my VHS copy of the movie from when it originally premiered on TNT. I never really liked "Third Space" it has nothing to do with anything. I guess it is a good stand alone movie. I've never felt compelled to watch it over and over, but I've probably watched "In the Beginning" a good 20-30 times. In fact, I know all the words, which really annoys people who watch it with me
smile.gif

Thanks
Car


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I thought it was nice that "Aurthur" firing the first shot at Dukat's ship was included in the movie. He could have been easily overlooked when it was made, since his episode was so unimportant. What were your thoughts on the movie?

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-With every light is born a shadow-
 
Possible spoilers if you live under a rock and haven't seen In The Beginning

I thought the movie was excellent, and is probably the best B5 movie as of yet. The way they mixed everything in from all the epidodes yet still had original content was well done. Plus we finally got to see Sheridan blow up the Black Star. And although the movie was not without error(the size and location of the windows on the Sharlin that Delenn was looking out of in hyperspace prior to first contact) the positive points out-weigh them. I also like the way the movie was actually presented as a story instead of occuring events.

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Garibaldi: "Someone's trying to frame me for the explosion in the Cobra bay. They planted a schematic of the bay and a pouch of Centauri ducats in my quarters."
Londo: "Cen-tar-ri?"
Garibaldi: "Cen-tau-ri."
Londo: "Po-tay-to?"
Garibaldi: "Po-tah-to."
Londo: "To-may-to?"
Garibaldi: "To-mah-to."
Londo: "(and Garibaldi) Let's call the whole thing off!" Downbelow Sound Archive
 
My thoughts on ItB... Hmmm.

Thought it was decent although not terribly exciting the first time, found it very boring the second time, and I haven't even bothered to watch it properly on DVD - fast-forwarded most of it.

Sorry, but it's way down on my personal list on what I like of B5.

It was a well-made movie, had all the right ingredients, the framing story (Londo telling the story to the children) was cleverly done, it answered questions the series had raised and all that, and yet to me, it was incredibly tedious.

I am quite sure the fault lies with me, not the movie - I was just never interested in the whole Earth-Minbari war (or the humans or the Minbari, for that matter). *shrugs*

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"There are things out there beyond imagination, and I have a rather healthy imagination." - G'Kar, B5: Rangers
Kribu's Lounge | kribu@ranger.b5lr.com | Kribu.net
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR> if i hadnt seen the full explanation
already from the show, i would have thought it was *very* contrived and very much like a deus ex machina... all of a sudden sinclair drops in and oops, the wars over
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think that's the whole Point. Someone seeing that Movie first would see this Minor character ("Everyman") and dismiss him,
thus Avoiding Major Spoilers when they see him again in the 1st season episodes.

Only later on do they find out that Sinclair is a Central character whose life influences the entire story.

It also makes sense that Londo would gloss over Sinclair when telling the story because Sinclair essentially Vanished from the story as seen from Londo's point of view.
I doubt Londo ever knew about the Sinclair/Valen connection, so he couldn't know how important to the story Sinclair became.
It's not the sort of info Delenn or Sheridan would pass around.



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Do not ascribe your own motivations to others:
At best, it will break your heart.
At worst, it will get you dead."
 
i see where you're coming from bakana... but regardless of anything with sinclair, the war just ended so abruptly. i mean, this whole movie has been about this war, with these wonderful scenes of hopelessness... londo's speech and then the presidents speech and then the line itself... and then the whole thing is wrapped up in just a few lines of dialouge

the reason im making a point out of this is a few months ago i explained the whole thing to some of my roommates, about the whole earth-minbari war... and thats exactly what they said, that the whole thing just seemed a bit to easy. i think if they had spent a bit more time on the end, maybe an additional 5 or 10 minutes on the details of the situation including the history behind it (such as the deciline in the minbari birthrate) and the implications of all of it that it would have made much more of an impact... at least for those who hadnt yet seen the series. if memory serves, i dont think that they even fully explained who valen *was*... so if ItB was your first exposure to B5 then the end of the movie might leave you with a "huh?"...

i would think, also, that londo would know about all that... i mean, he knew enough that sinclair tried to ram the cruiser, got pulled inside, was examined by the council, etc... why wouldnt he know the full picture?

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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR> i would think, also, that londo would know about all that... i mean, he knew enough that sinclair tried to ram the cruiser, got pulled inside, was examined by the council, etc... why wouldnt he know the full picture?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Because the Minbari never tell anyone the whole truth.
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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR> "We're still trying to figure that one out. There's the story she told us, but then, the Minbari never tell you the whole
truth."

Sheridan in Babylon 5:"A Distant Star" <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

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Do not ascribe your own motivations to others:
At best, it will break your heart.
At worst, it will get you dead."
 
Londo done well to tell the story that Delenn told him
smile.gif
I thought it was brilliant especially near the end when Sinclair sayd "OMG, its a trap" and you see hundreds of jumppoints forming with Sharlins coming out firing
smile.gif
smile.gif


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"When it is time, come to this place, call our name, we will be here" -Walkers of Sigma957
Babylon 5 freegame-I've Found Her
 
"In the Beginning" was the best of the Babylon 5 movies. It is the best science fiction movie I have ever seen. It is one of the best made for TV movies I have ever seen. I can go on and on about this movie. The characterization was flawless, the plot tied together nicely with the series. The special effects were off the charts and the score was inspiring. Its a movie that invokes a spectrum of emotions. There was a thread about the most emotional scenes on this board, this movie contains about half the ones I'm able to think of. I didn't find any part of it hokey, unbelievable or rushed.

I see Arrghman's point in the way Sinclair was handled but the movie would have gone on too long and would have dragged if they went into the backstory of Sinclair also. They gave us healthy insight into Sheridan, Delenn, Londo, Franklin, G'kar, and Dukhat. Imagine adding to all of that, Sinclair's backstory. And I have to agree with Bakana that this movie did a great job of showing us the things that Londo would know about. Although I'm not sure how he found out about Lenonn's desire to see the Grey Council.

This movie was practically flawless in its inception and conception and most of all its delivery, and was a tribute to the greatest show of all time. While the first episode "Midnight on the Firing Line" remains my favorite B5 entity, "In the Beginning" is VERY EASILY my second.

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YOU ARE NOT READY FOR IMMORTALITY!
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>The special effects were off the charts...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

meh.... they really dont hold up on the DVD for me, thirdspace was visually a *lot* better

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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Dark Archon:

I see Arrghman's point in the way Sinclair was handled but the movie would have gone on too long and would have dragged if they went into the backstory of Sinclair also. They gave us healthy insight into Sheridan, Delenn, Londo, Franklin, G'kar, and Dukhat. Imagine adding to all of that, Sinclair's backstory. And I have to agree with Bakana that this movie did a great job of showing us the things that Londo would know about. Although I'm not sure how he found out about Lenonn's desire to see the Grey Council.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Dark Archon,

How soon you forget. From the third book of the Centauri trilogy, "Out Of The Darkness," we learn that

<table bgcolor=black><tr><td bgcolor=black><font size=1 color=white>Spoiler:</font></td></tr><tr><td><font size=2 color=black> Delenn told Londo the entire story from her viewpoint in exchange for Londo saving her son. Delenn, of course, would have been aware of Lenonn's desire to see the Grey Council. </font></td></tr></table>

This is also alluded to in the book version of "In The Beginning."

Joe


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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>
Arrghman said

meh.... they really dont hold up on the DVD for me, thirdspace was visually a *lot* better
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Don't get me wrong, I really like Thirdspace. I also liked the visual effects and the story; did feel sorry for poor Zack though. When you compare it with a master piece like "In the Beginning", it gets blown away. The place that it is weakest is the tie-in to the Babylon 5 story arc. What revelation does it uncover or explain, what insight does it reveal, other than the fact that Vorlons can make mistakes, too.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>
joev5638 said

How soon you forget. From the third book of the Centauri trilogy, "Out Of The Darkness," we learn that

Spoiler:
Delenn told Londo the entire story from her viewpoint in exchange for Londo saving her son. Delenn, of course, would have been aware of Lenonn's desire to see the Grey Council.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I did forget. I'm going to have to go back into that book and find it goshdarnit, because its going to bother me that I can't remember.
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YOU ARE NOT READY FOR IMMORTALITY!
 
archon, im talking purely about the visual effects... storywise i like ItB better, but the CG in thirdspace was much better. there are tiny errors all over ItB that bug me... ships being hit but not physically receiving damage, lo-res explosion images, explosions that dont interact properly with other objects (clipping) and some generally bad composition

thirdspace was a lot cleaner... first off, NetterDigital began experimenting with a lot of new techniques which made the effects look very fresh and new, including particles, much more interesting camera angles and composition. visually it was just a lot more exciting and original... and coming from me that actually means a lot, because i'm usually *very* critical over netter digital's work
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### Hi, I'm a sig virus. Please add me to the end of your signature so I can take over the world.### - caught from Saps @ B5MG
 
Well Arrghman, if you are talking purely visual effects. Than I'll have to agree that "Thirdspace" is up there along with "In the Beginning". I'm not going to say that "Thirdspace" blows ItB out of the water. Because honestly both movies had me going wow.

As far as the subtleties you were talking about, I don't know enough about computer-generated imaging to notice some of the differences. And another thing is visual effects are not at the top as far as how much they add to the experience of watching a movie. Characterization, plot, etc. outshine visual effects most of the time with me.

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YOU ARE NOT READY FOR IMMORTALITY!
 
oh, i agree, visual effects should be completely secondary to the plot, characterization, acting, etc... but they can also detract from the movie as well. and there were just lots of little things in ItB that caught my eye and bugged me...

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### Hi, I'm a sig virus. Please add me to the end of your signature so I can take over the world.### - caught from Saps @ B5MG
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Arrghman:
oh, i agree, visual effects should be completely secondary to the plot, characterization, acting, etc... but they can also detract from the movie as well. and there were just lots of little things in ItB that caught my eye and bugged me...

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Arrghman,
To be honest, after seeing some AWFUL "special effects" in older sci-fi and other shows, I have to say that once you get used to seeing special effects that don't adequately do the job, if you're still with the story when it's over, then before long, you don't really even notice the effects - or, at least, I don't.

Only ONE TIME in the entire B5 series did I go, "WOW! COOL!" at a special effect: when the Vree saucer fires this "shredding" fire in a battle with the Shadows. THAT was seriously cool, and the ONLY special effect to ever catch my attention. Even so, to me, it was a part of the story - that that's how Vree ships look when they fire.

After that, there's the first direct Vorlon/Shadow battle, when one Vorlon ship goes through a Shadow ship, and when one Vorlon ship gets "scratched." And that wasn't the effect as much as me at the time saying to my best friend, "Wow! The Vorlons are kicking the Shadows' ***! See that! The Shadows just SCRATCHED the Vorlon ship! Oh, the Vorlons are going to be pissed!"

To me, it's all about having believable characters. It's incredibly rare that a special effect would hurt or help things. Both effects I just mentioned could have been done away with, and the series wouldn't have really lost anything.

But I'm an oddball in this way.

Joe


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I personally like In the Beginning. It is my favorite out of all the B5 movies. I think it was very well done. I like the action and the drama, and the scenes of Minbar are pretty cool.

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Dulann: You don't solve your problems by hitting them.
David Martel: Yeah, well, it made me feel better.
 
well i'm an oddball too... in a few years i'm gonna actually try to get a job doing that stuff... so its only natural that i'd be much more attuned, i guess, to the effects

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