How much does the Average Minbari know about Valen?

[Mondo Londo]

From War Without End, Parts I & II, as well as various novels, etc. -- we the audience, readers, etc. know several things about Valen.

But how much does the average Minbari in the street know about Valen and his roots? How much do the different castes know? Is there some level of government under which no one knows?

Or does all of Valen's history become public knowledge -- and if so, when?

What about on Earth?



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"What's up, Drakh?"

Michael Garibaldi

 

[hypatia]

Good question. I got the distinct impression that very few Minbari actually know anything about Valen other than the myths about him. I think very few Minbari know of the Human/Valen connection.

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"The Bible is a book: it is a good book, but is is not the only book" - Inherit the Wind

"I do not believe that the same God who
has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use."—Galileo

hypatia@b5fan.b5lr.com

 

[Psi-Kid]

I would figure that most Minbari don't know about Valen's origins. I thought the only people that knew, were from the Grey Council.

Dunno about the Humans, they probably just know whatever myths they have heard over the years.

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Yeah, Mundanes still suck.

 

[A_Ranger]

JMS Quotes
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Obviously there were many drawings and pictures and records of
Valen, but most were destroyed in the Great War. And those that
survived have been, over a thousand years, idealized and distorted by
whichever caste is currently claiming him as theirs. (Valen refused to
belong to any one caste

yes, the Grey Council
now knows who Sinclair was; and general knowledge of what happened
would certainly have an upsetting effect on Minbari society, so they
will continue to keep it indefinitely back-roomed.... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

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We're all born as molecules in the hearts of a billion stars, molecules that do not understand politics, policies and differences. In a billion years we, foolish molecules forget who we are and where we came from. Desperate acts of ego. We give ourselves names, fight over lines on maps. And pretend our light is better than everyone else's. The flame reminds us of the piece of those stars that live inside us. A spark that tells us: you should know better. The flame also reminds us that life is precious, as each flame is unique. When it goes out, it's gone forever. And there will never be another quite like it

 

[whitestar90]

I agree only the caste elders and the grey council would know of the human connection to Minbari society and as for humans knowing they wouldn't oe even if they cared....

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"When it is time, come to this place, call our name, we will be here" -Walkers of Sigma957

 

[Sinclair]

Along the same lines as MondoLondo's original question:

How many humans know the truth about Valen/Sinclair?

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"I welcome you and present this place to you as a gift. I am called Valen, and we have much work ahead of us."
-Valen, War Without End Pt.2

 

[channe]

I think for the ordinary Minbari it would be much like the ordinary Catholic:

The ordinary Catholic goes to Mass every Sunday, participates in service, believes that Jesus died on the Cross, rose again, ascended into heaven, believes in transubstantiation, the communion of the saints, so forth and yadda yadda.

However, does the ordinary Catholic really know what goes on in the Vatican every day? Does the ordinary Catholic take the time to decipher Vatican encyclicals beyond the pulpit or maybe even a once-over? No.

At this point, I'm pretty sure that the upper-levels, Delenn included, are probably keeping it very hush hush and silent. Too much of a change will quite destablize the Minbari culture - remember, the Earth-Minbari War is still fresh in many minds. It's not been so long that there are no longer people like Neroon and Homeguard hanging about.

There's plenty of time to let the truth about Valen come out.

Because sooner or later, it always does.

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channe@[url="http://cryoterrace.tripod.com"]cryoterrace[/url] | "I wonder," said Frodo, "but I don't know. And that's the way of a real tale."

 

[A_Ranger]

I doubt any humans (other than Sheridan, Ivonova and company) know the truth of Sinclair/Valen. I don't think that's something anybody would take too well.

ISN Broadcast: "15 years after the Earth Minbari War ended, Earthforce officar Jeffery Sinclair travelled back in time to become the Minbari savior and central figure of their belief system."

Yeah, right.

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We're all born as molecules in the hearts of a billion stars, molecules that do not understand politics, policies and differences. In a billion years we, foolish molecules forget who we are and where we came from. Desperate acts of ego. We give ourselves names, fight over lines on maps. And pretend our light is better than everyone else's. The flame reminds us of the piece of those stars that live inside us. A spark that tells us: you should know better. The flame also reminds us that life is precious, as each flame is unique. When it goes out, it's gone forever. And there will never be another quite like it

 

[superbob]

hey people, one word for you "Roswell".
I must agree with channe:

"However, does the ordinary Catholic really know what goes on in the Vatican every day? Does the ordinary Catholic take the time to decipher Vatican encyclicals beyond the pulpit or maybe even a once-over? No. "

The higher up's in any goverment wouldn't admit to their hair being on fire, even if their lives depended on it. "trust noone"not even yourself!

The Minbari, well, who the hell knows what a minbari thinks anyway!

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"I am Grey. I stand between the candle and the star. We are Grey. We stand between the darkness and the light. I come to take the place that has been prepared for me"

 

[bakana]

You're all forgetting the Children Of Valen.

If at least some of the truth about Valen weren't common knowlege, Delenn wouldn't have been able to blackmail her Clan Elders with going Public that She is a Child Of Valen in order to get them to allow her to marry Sheridan.

They don't know Valen was Sinclair.

But they evidently DO know something about the real meaning of "Minbari Not Born of Minbari".

And 1000 years later, they still discriminate against his Children.
If they weren't, Delenn's clan wouldn't still be trying to keep it a Secret.



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Do not ascribe your own motivations to others:
At best, it will break your heart.
At worst, it will get you dead."

 

[joev5638]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by bakana:
You're all forgetting the Children Of Valen.

If at least some of the truth about Valen weren't common knowlege, Delenn wouldn't have been able to blackmail her Clan Elders with going Public that She is a Child Of Valen in order to get them to allow her to marry Sheridan.

They don't know Valen was Sinclair.

But they evidently DO know something about the real meaning of "Minbari Not Born of Minbari".

And 1000 years later, they still discriminate against his Children.
If they weren't, Delenn's clan wouldn't still be trying to keep it a Secret.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Actually, given some of the hints dropped from the book "To Dream In The City Of Sorrows," there is more than one explanation of why Valen's children are discriminated against,

<table bgcolor=black><tr><td bgcolor=black><font size=1 color=white>Spoiler:</font></td></tr><tr><td><font size=2 color=black> particularly, if Sinclair/Valen had children by Catherine Sakai in the past. The book leaves open the possibility that the two of them met in the past, particularly with Sinclair's use of the word "we" in his letter to Marcus. However, this doesn't mesh with the Caste elders' story that no Minbari has ever married an alien. </font></td></tr></table>



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[Arrghman]

channe, you said exactly what i was thinking when i saw the topic name

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### Hi, I'm a sig virus. Please add me to the end of your signature so I can take over the world.### - caught from Saps @ B5MG

 

[Quagmire]

Joe if what you say is true, and I think you are likely right after having read to dream,


<table bgcolor=black><tr><td bgcolor=black><font size=1 color=white>Spoiler:</font></td></tr><tr><td><font size=2 color=black> than Sakai would likely have used the triluminary to become a hybrid as well. However she may not have lost all her human traits and may have resembled Delenn post transformation. When the triluminaries were made on Epsilon 3 they were likely designed with Sinclair in mind and with his DNA to work from. Remember the Vorlons had plenty of access to it and he also made a trip to Epsilon 3 before they are needed during WWE. Although Varn's state leads me to believe this was probably not the time a sample was collected. </font></td></tr></table>



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"Crying isn't gonna get your dog back. Unless your tears smell like dog food. So you can sit here eating can after can of dog food until your tears smell like dog food or you can go out there and find your dog."-Homer in The Canine Mutiny

 

[bakana]

Well, the Triluminaries (and the Chrysalis machine) were delivered to Sinclair by Zathras during War Without End.

If one were intended for Sakai, it Would explain why Three were needed.

It may be that each was tuned to a particular person.
It's a mystery.
Plus, they evidently have Other uses, since the Grey Council used one to verify that Sinclair had Valen's Soul.
A triluminary was also responsible for revealing that Delenn was a Child of Valen during her induction into the Grey council.
It was probably a Ceremonial use at that point, but it clearly responded to her DNA, much to the surprise of everyone.
Except Dukhat.

Note: Delenn didn't Know that she was a Child of Valen until she remembered Dukhat telling her.
Her clan elders weren't even telling their own families the secret.


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Do not ascribe your own motivations to others:
At best, it will break your heart.
At worst, it will get you dead."

 

[superbob]

I guess the Minbar people aren't all that different from humans. Keeping secrets from each other for the sake of peace or at least what they view as peace.

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"I am Grey. I stand between the candle and the star. We are Grey. We stand between the darkness and the light. I come to take the place that has been prepared for me"