grey 17 is missing

[KoshN]

John Copeland also criticised David Warner's performance in Grail on the Babylon Podcast recently.

????? I think David Warner's performance is one of the best things about the episode. Which podcast?

Interesting what JMS says about Geometry of Shadows.. is there anyone out there who doesn't like that episode?

It's one of my favorites. Michael Ansara is great as Elric, and what he puts Londo through .....priceless!

 

[RMcD]

????? I think David Warner's performance is one of the best things about the episode. Which podcast?

I totally agree, I think David Warner's great in everything he's in. It's show #33 (www.babylonpodcast.com), less than 5 minutes in. Copeland basically says that Grail is the one episode of 110 that he felt didn't work, and that David Warner walked through the role and phoned it in. I guess there might have been some troubles behind the scenes while that episode was being made that didn't end up on screen.

 

[Galahad]

I remember Walter Koenig saying that the guy who played Ari Ben Zayn was so upfront and aggressive in his role because he had very recently gone through a nasty divorce.

 

[KoshN]

I totally agree, I think David Warner's great in everything he's in. It's show #33 (www.babylonpodcast.com), less than 5 minutes in. Copeland basically says that Grail is the one episode of 110 that he felt didn't work, and that David Warner walked through the role and phoned it in. I guess there might have been some troubles behind the scenes while that episode was being made that didn't end up on screen.

Out of all that, all 110 episodes, he picks David Warner and Grail??? Unbelievable!

I remember Walter Koenig saying that the guy who played Ari Ben Zayn was so upfront and aggressive in his role because he had very recently gone through a nasty divorce.

Guess he needed a release. Worked very well.

 

[Jade Jaguar]

The only good Zarg is NO Zarg.

Grey 17 - Zarg = good ep.


Warner is fine in Grail.

 

[KoshN]

The only good Zarg is NO Zarg.

Grey 17 - Zarg = good ep.

Why, because the Zarg was acting like a strange combination of a gorilla and the cowardly lion from The Wizard of Oz (Cowardly Lion: "Put 'em up, put 'em up! Which one of you first? I can fight you both together if you want. I can fight you with one paw tied behind my back. I can fight you standing on one foot. I can fight you with my eyes closed. Oh, pull an axe on me, eh? Sneaking up on me, eh? Why, I'll... Ruff!")?

Seems like B5 has the most trouble when it tries to pull off monsters (Zarg, Thirdspace aliens, etc.) and achieve horror.

 

[Jade Jaguar]

I wouldn't call what the Zarg was doing acting. The whole concept, even the name, of the Zarg, was dumb. A missing section, populated by weirdos, fine. Throw in a fiend/ish monster, fine. But, Zarg was just poorly done. Hokey, stupid, with the absurd method of killing, all very beneath JMS. I liked TKO, including the A story, even if it wasn't JMS at his best, it was entertaining, and had a point to make.

 

[Galahad]

Why, because the Zarg was acting like a strange combination of a gorilla and the cowardly lion from The Wizard of Oz (Cowardly Lion: "Put 'em up, put 'em up! Which one of you first? I can fight you both together if you want. I can fight you with one paw tied behind my back. I can fight you standing on one foot. I can fight you with my eyes closed. Oh, pull an axe on me, eh? Sneaking up on me, eh? Why, I'll... Ruff!")?

Seems like B5 has the most trouble when it tries to pull off monsters (Zarg, Thirdspace aliens, etc.) and achieve horror.

I knew the strange pawing motions reminded me of something but could never quite figure it out... but that's it! LOL!

 

[KoshN]

I wouldn't call what the Zarg was doing acting.

By "acting like," I didn't mean "acting" in the thespian sense of the word. I just meant the way the Zarg was throwing his arms about, acting like a gorilla/cowardly lion (Acting out "Put 'em up. Put 'em up." though without the words.).

The whole concept, even the name, of the Zarg, was dumb. A missing section, populated by weirdos, fine. Throw in a fiend/ish monster, fine. But, Zarg was just poorly done. Hokey, stupid,

It's hard to do a fiend/ish monster in an episodic TV show. Last fiend/ish monster I can remember that was convincing was Alien/Aliens, but that wasn't a guy in a monster suit, and wasn't on B5's budget. The guy in the monster suit is probably all they could afford on a TV budget. IMHO, the Shadow soldier in The Long Dark was better.

... with the absurd method of killing, all very beneath JMS.

??? We never did see the Zarg's method of killing. We never SAW it kill anything or anybody. We only ever saw the maintenance guy get pulled through the manhole, kind of like seeing a swimmer get attacked by a shark and pulled under, except that we never saw any blood or evidence of kills.

 

[Jan]

I liked TKO, including the A story, even if it wasn't JMS at his best, it was entertaining, and had a point to make.

TKO wasn't JMS, it was Larry DiTillio.

Exogenesis is the one episode I'm completely indifferent to.

Jan

 

[RMcD]

I'm rewatching Crusade at the moment. I know it deserves special latitude because of what was going on behind the scenes, but still, whereas even the worst B5 eps are never less than entertaining, a number of episodes of Crusade (War Zone and The Rules of the Game, for example) are very nearly unwatchable IMHO.

 

[Galahad]

I'm rewatching Crusade at the moment. I know it deserves special latitude because of what was going on behind the scenes, but still, whereas even the worst B5 eps are never less than entertaining, a number of episodes of Crusade (War Zone and The Rules of the Game, for example) are very nearly unwatchable IMHO.

I enjoyed the "Needs of Earth" a lot, particularly what happened with Matheson. Shame we never got to see it develop.

 

[GaribaldisHair]

Well JMS didn't even want War Zone, so it was on a loser to start with.

 

[KoshN]

Well JMS didn't even want War Zone, so it was on a loser to start with.

It's not as bad as people say. It seems like all you have to do is say something's a loser, and lots of people pile on.

As far as I'm concerned, once the crew gets going on the Excalibur, it's OK, up until the exposition filled campfire scene.

 

[KoshN]

I enjoyed the "Needs of Earth" a lot, particularly what happened with Matheson. Shame we never got to see it develop.

Initially, that was one of my least favorite episodes, for the same reason Captain Gideon was dissatisfied with what happened in the episode. I also did not like the CGI of the alien ships in hyperspace. To me, the ships looked unfinished, and the surrounding of the Excalibur looked flat, ...2D.

I like "The Needs of Earth" now, but those points mentioned above still bug me. Great end scene with Gideon and Dureena. Great last scene and music in that scene. I also liked the scenes of the shuttle penetrating the thick atmosphere on the planet, the scenes on the planet in the hostile atmosphere, and the scenes inside the habitable area. Matheson's scenes on the Excalibur were also very good.

More later.....

 

[KoshN]

I'm rewatching Crusade at the moment. I know it deserves special latitude because of what was going on behind the scenes, but still, whereas even the worst B5 eps are never less than entertaining, a number of episodes of Crusade (War Zone and The Rules of the Game, for example) are very nearly unwatchable IMHO.

For me, The Rules of the Game was saved by the Max and Cynthia Eilerson B-thread. Max, Dureena and Trace save Ruling from the Tomb, my least favorite episode.

 

[crazyhorse]

Apart from the daft monster custume and silly steam powered bullets I enjoyed this episode as I did most other non arc related episodes.

One of the things about B5 is that I did enjoy every episode.OK I never liked the bits with Byron in it but apart from that

I could see the differance in quality in Crusade though although Crusade did grow on me till I found out only half a series had been made.I put that down to finance as I never knew the behind the scenes nonsense going on.It was however still watchable and was as good as Star Trek in my opinion.

 

[RMcD]

I enjoyed the "Needs of Earth" a lot, particularly what happened with Matheson.

Interestingly it seems to have been the first in the production order. As the TNT interference increased over time, perhaps it's the closest we have to an unadulterated episode..

 

[for the one]

It'a another case where the gravity of the "B" story heavily outweighs the "A" story... TKO is another example - we are more ineterested in the human story of Ivanova's loss, than we are of Garibaldi's buddy busting "snakeheads".

Similarly, we are more intrigued by the intrigue within the power structure of the rangers... and subsequently, Marcus' seemingly futile but desperate struggle to fight for that which he holds dear.

Wow you soooo expressed exactly how I felt. That is how my wife and I felt about both those... Well said.

 

[Jade Jaguar]

By "acting like," I didn't mean "acting" in the thespian sense of the word. I just meant the way the Zarg was throwing his arms about, acting like a gorilla/cowardly lion (Acting out "Put 'em up. Put 'em up." though without the words.).






??? We never did see the Zarg's method of killing. We never SAW it kill anything or anybody. We only ever saw the maintenance guy get pulled through the manhole, kind of like seeing a swimmer get attacked by a shark and pulled under, except that we never saw any blood or evidence of kills.

I knew what you meant by acting, I was just making a joke. By the "method of killing," I meant the method of killing the Zarg.

I agree it is hard to make a good one-off monster on a TV budget, and the Shadow Soldier was better.

And Jan, thaks for the correction. I should have remembered that...