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Firefly/Serenity from the perspective of a "Feminist."

Feminism means pro equality for women. It does not mean favoritism for women.

Well, there were some in the early women's rights movement who wanted exactly this. Others didn't. Thus you get the odd compromise that our young women may serve in the military but can't get drafted.


Not just a "man hater," but also has a problem w/ race. The whole bit about how a white man can't have a healthy relationship with a black woman... well let's just say I know for a fact that's just wrong.

I know. It would certainly come as a shock to my aunt and uncle, who have been happily married for three decades... it would certainly come as a severe shock to their tri-racial grandchildren.
 
Not just a "man hater," but also has a problem w/ race. The whole bit about how a white man can't have a healthy relationship with a black woman... well let's just say I know for a fact that's just wrong.

Are you absolutely sure you haven't just been raping black women? :)
 
I wondered about just that with Wash and Zoe, actually. Just how would he do it, even if he wanted to?

Incidentially, I recently dreamed that Gina Torres kicked my ass and forced herself upon me. Most male dream I've ever had.

Almost.
 
Mmmmmm, Gina Torres.

gina_01.jpg


Just curious, did the article mention that she was black? Because I believe she is Cuban.
 
Ohh! She is part black. I've seen her on Latina magazines now and then. She's hot no matter what her heritage is. I'd go lesbian for her.

Damn, I should just make a list of women I'd switch sides for.

I wonder if the author of the man-hating post knows that Gina Torres is married to Lawrence Fishburne. I mean, he did play Ike Turner and since this broad can't tell the difference between stepping into a role and reality, I figure she'd want to know so she can throw up a "Morpheus is a rapist" thread for shits and giggles.
 
I actually thought the article was a joke at first, it was so extremely badly written. Guess I am an evil rapist in waiting just by thinking about how hot some of the women in that show are, and I don't even dig it that much...

The bit where she starts criticising their marriage based upon his writing was just too much really. I have to place stuff like this alongside far-right material and extreme Islam in terms of its paranoia and ill-thought out arguments.
 
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Personally, I was delighted that Joss had a happily married couple as main characters in this show. Far too few of those in TV in general and SF in particular. Also struck me that Wash was unlikely to be able to force Zoe to do much of anything that she didn't want to.

I cannot believe that someone can watch a show featuring characters that were explicitly military in origin (Mal and Zoe) where one had previously been the others commanding officer and was now captain of the ship on which she served, and take such huge offense that she would call the captain "Sir" and follow his orders. Does she have the same problem with Harry Kim and Janeway, or is that OK because it's the woman giving the orders?

I am obviously missing something here ... or maybe she is?

She is also seriously sarcastically-challenged.
 
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By the way, I believe pretty much all popular entertainment is inherently sexist, simply because every female character is very very attractive, including roles where this isn't required.

Currently catching up on Heroes season 2- why is EVERY chick really hot? I mean, it's just stupid. And pretty much the only reason I still watch this stupid thing.
 
Yeah, Wash at one point even remarks that he's married to a woman who could kill him with her pinkie. No rape going on there. As to the "sir" bit, I wonder what the blogger thought about the great line in the second episode: "Sir, I think you have a problem with your brain being missing." This doesn't scream subsurvience.
 
Most men in television shows and in the movies are extremely HOT as well, or they have an endearing quality about them (and are usually secondary characters.) There are average looking women, or rather, women in roles who are not really there for their looks specifically, same with men.

I think it's just commonplace in Hollywood to cast a good looking actor (whether male or female.)

And I also think that women have an advantage over men. When I get up in the morning, I am seriously hideous, but a little make-up and some hair changes and I think I look HOT. I think women can be made to look very beautiful through the magic of make-up and such. Weight plays a factor for some, so that might not appeal to all men if a woman is a little curvy, but your average woman of an average weight can usually be made to look pretty if she has the right tools. Thus, I think it looks like all women ARE hot on television. I imagine if you saw these stars w/o hair and make-up, some would be VERY plain.

Then there is an actress like Summer Glau who is just breathtaking even at her worst. The rest of us women just grit our teeth and bear it and admire either secretly or very obviously. I personally love to revel in the beauty of women and men. But, I think it's more than physical features that make a person extraordinary. In truth, Paris Hilton is a beautiful young woman (physically.) But her personality makes her very unattractive.

Gina Torres is a beautiful woman and her personality makes her absolutely irresistible.
Sorry to get off on a tangent here! And I'll work on that list. :D
 
Sure male actors are pretty as well, but not nearly the same quantity and level.

I love Judd Apatow's TV shows and movies (Freaks and Geeks, The 40 Yr Old Virgin, Knocked Up, et al) but they usually involved ugly dorky guys hooking up with gorgeous women. Seth Rogen and Katherine Hagel = box office gold.

The only movie I can think of involving an "ugly" girl and a good-looking man is My Big Fat Greek Wedding, and the guy wasn't that good-looking, and the girl wasn't that ugly (rather, just a normal-ish girl, not a knock-out).

Also look at TV sitcoms- does the wife of big fat awful Kevin James have to be that incredibly hot chick? At least with something like, say, The Cosby Show, the wife was very attractive but the husband was successful and normal looking so it was realistic. But fat Kevin James and fat John Belushi, playing blue-collar guyes, are married to absolute knock-outs on TV.

Really the difference is that when the role doesn't necessarily call for the woman being gorgeous, more often than not, she will be.

One area where men have gotten way prettier, to the point where they've surpassed women, is pop music. Used to be rock stars were ugly but sexy 'cause they rocked. Now pop stars look like Usher and Justin Timberlake, who are as pretty as Rhianna and Beyonce. I can just imagine them all sitting around trading tips on beauty products.
 
Oh, and I think I mentioned this once before, but my sister used to work in Starbucks in mid-town Manhattan and lots of celebs would buy coffee there. She met Gina Torres shortly before Serenity came out, and they chatted a bit (I had gotten my sister into sci-fi, including Firefly, by then).

She also met another of my favorite looking actresses- Rosario Dawson. And in both cases, before I could even get the question out, she confirmed that yes, they are as gorgeous in real life as they look on the screen.
 
And I also think that women have an advantage over men. When I get up in the morning, I am seriously hideous, but a little make-up and some hair changes and I think I look HOT. I think women can be made to look very beautiful through the magic of make-up and such. Weight plays a factor for some, so that might not appeal to all men if a woman is a little curvy, but your average woman of an average weight can usually be made to look pretty if she has the right tools. Thus, I think it looks like all women ARE hot on television. I imagine if you saw these stars w/o hair and make-up, some would be VERY plain.

That's one perspective. Another perspective, though, is: why is it a woman considers it necessary to hide her "real face" to be attractive? Is that really an advantage, when you look at it?

As far as weight playing a factor for some, from what I've seen real men tend to prefer young over thin. I know the models of the world are quite popular to look at, but "real" men, from my experience, don't want a woman who is that little fun (can't really have fun with her if she's eating a lettuce leaf a day and always obsessed with looking thin).

But any man finds it thrilling to have a younger woman flirt with him. ;) Maybe it's pure survival instinct: the old "must spread my genes among as many healthy woman as possible. And maybe that's why the men I have met in real life perfer a healthy look to an ultra-thin one.

As far as advantages in the theater, until recently the VAST majority of roles in a play or a film were for men. Just look at the older movies (and plays) and unless it's a "specialty" story, more than half (often FAR more than half) of the cast are male.

I can't tell for certain, as I am not a really avid modern-movie follower, but that trend seems to be fading a bit. With some exceptions. But television at least seems to be more balanced.

And as far as the casting the beautiful, a real Star-Trek nut (er, I mean fan :eek:) friend of mine from high school and college heard something about casting extras, and the "rules" they follow in doing so.

Basically, height was the big thing. To keep costume-making to a minimum, they want extras who are all about the same height. I found that interesting.

And in general, yes, I agree that the "not-so-bad-looking" tend to have an easier time getting cast. Not that the odd "person with a face with character" isn't cast, but it's usually a specialty role (where you want someone who looks gruffer or more down-to-earth, or plain).

Anyhow, just my thoughts. The casting of the beautiful is something I just decide to accept a long time ago. Once again, if the script is good and the characters interesting, I find I don't think about it much.
 
Well there are definitely the natural beauties and I agree that both Gina and Rosario are BEYOND hot. But, I also think their personalities help push them over the "WOW" line as well. They just seem like cool people.

Now, I do think you ARE onto something with the whole sitcom thing. I get sick of seeing these guys that are all overweight, beer belly, come across as mindless couch potatoes and they get these ultra-hot wives. It's not that this doesn't happen (and I think women are far more forgiving of a man being overweight or average looking than a guy is toward a woman--but another argument altogether.) But, the "formula" is old. I also see it on commercials all the time. The message that sends to a woman is, "it's ok for your husband to get out of shape, sit on the couch all day and make messes in the kitchen, but dammit, you better still look hot like you did when you were 19."

Confusing.
 
That's one perspective. Another perspective, though, is: why is it a woman considers it necessary to hide her "real face" to be attractive? Is that really an advantage, when you look at it?

Well, I don't think I'm hiding my "real face." I think I am just enhancing my real features. My skin is uneven, so I even it out. My eyelashes are pale, so I darken them. My lips are small, so I add color to make them stand out just a little more. Or, if you have beautiful blue eyes, you wear a color that makes them stand out.

But, I'm a huge fan of make-up, always have been and always will be. =) I don't ever think it hides who I am. I enjoy it, but maybe that is not true for some women? Hmm!

As far as weight playing a factor for some, from what I've seen real men tend to prefer young over thin. I know the models of the world are quite popular to look at, but "real" men, from my experience, don't want a woman who is that little fun (can't really have fun with her if she's eating a lettuce leaf a day and always obsessed with looking thin).

Yeah, I agree with you there.
 
I recently met this girl- very hot, young, thin, long legs, flat stomach, blonde, etc. I asked her if she ever did any modeling and not as a pick-up line (really, I'm much better than that) but because I really thought she had the look- and she told me that she did try out a little but didn't meet their criteria. I dunno- was it because her ass actually existed, or her neck was thicker than a pencil? Believe me, folks, you'd wanna see this girl work it on a runway.

I personally guess that most models are not pretty (I don't just mean too thin, but also not particularly pretty) because designers don't want the girl to distract from the clothes. Victoria Secret is an exception because they're selling an idea more than specific designs (thus Adriana Lima).
 

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