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Comparing: Jesus VS. The Shadows

Okay, GE. He seems mild mannered, friendly, often smiles, offers you what you want (heaven) seems like a nice guy, just like Morden. But of course the blue eyes and the Aryian look are not the truth, but a sham. THAT representation of Christ is the most common one among those for whom religion IS us against them, 'Christians' of their approved sort against all others, Jews, Catholics, Moslems, Buddhists, 'Secular Humanists', atheists... and demands unquestioning obedience to their litteral interpretation of the bible. The #2 Christ is the Christ of Jerry Falwell, who blamed the WTC attack on the ACLU, prochoice people, liberals in general. He and his ilk foment division and chaos, obvious Shadow agents.

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You're speaking treason! Olivia De Havilland as Maid Marian
Fluently! Errol Flynn as Robin Hood
You're talking treason! Olivia De Havilland as Arabella Bishop
I trust I'm not obscure. Errol Flynn as Dr. Peter Blood

Pallindromes of the month: Snug was I, ere I saw guns.
Doom an evil deed, liven a mood.
 
Bah. Celibacy is not a bad thing. There are very good reasons why Catholic priests are celibate, for example, etc. Even though a lot of us would like to either see married priests or female priests, because, darnit, there's quite the priest-shortage out here.

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The writer's life is not meant to be a happy one. We all accept that going in. -JMS
 
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..There are big problems with most religions in the world. Christianity, however, I find to be the most incidious because it allows people to starve while others have an abundance all in the name of some sort of 'divine plan' of which we, as sheep, are not to question or contemplate to closely. When we do, and the obvious flaws impact upon our logic - we are told to 'have faith'. Faith that the very 'divine plan' we are not privy to is some sort of great thing! Well, if we don't know something than are told to have faith in that something we don't know, we are bascially being asked to have faith in nothing we know. "Illogical!"

I think that a SciFi board is the best place to discuss most religious icons. Right along side of Vorlons and Moadeeb...
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Gary

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But Jade, you're confusing Jesus #2 with what his so-called followers do. I don't think that Jesus would approve of people doing some of those awful things you mentioned. And besides, Morden let people choose what they wanted, Jesus just decided what's best for everyone and tried to convince everyone else.

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"You do not make history. You can only hope to survive it."
 
they are both a work of fiction ...

there simple

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"Your patience is also a weapon, when used properly. We will arrive when we arrive and we will have the weapons we have. You can not win this war through force, you must .. understand your way out of this. Sheridan knows. What remains to be seen is whether he knows that he knows."
-- Lorien to Ivanova in Babylon 5:"Into the Fire"

------------------------visit my website - http://www.babylonfive.net
 
"Do not think that I came to bring peace on the earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword." (Matthew 10:34)

well, the shadows did want the younger races to war with each other. and it looks like this scripture says the same thing.

"I have come to cast fire upon the earth; and how I wish it were already kindled. But I havve a baptism to undergo, and how distressed I am until it is accomplished. Do you suppose that I came to grant peace on earth? I tell you, no, but rather division." (Luke 12:49-51)

again, jesus states that he is bringing division, and 'come to cast fire upon the earth' well, the shadows had there planet killer..thats a fire too..

the whole evolution concept of war that the shadows have..seems to be the same concepts of Jesus..

just LOOK AT how many wars are going on today and in our history, all in the name of religion.

also, DIVISION...shoot just look at the Christian faith..thats pretty divided..we have Baptists, Catholic, Methodist..etc...

and ALL cannot agree on what Jesus and their religion is about with each other.

so, shadows = war
Jesus = war (Crusade wars, etc..well as waring with other faiths)

shadows = Division
Jesus = Division (christian faiths as )

so, there are simularities..but i am surprised that no one has picked up on that yet.




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I want my B5 TV!
 
I just watched Christianity: 1000 year history..

and I disagree.

First of all, Jesus was born, and ever since, people have been divided, countries divided..nations conquered, for the reason of spreading Christianity.

that seems like a likeness to me.

war is war.

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I want my B5 TV!
 
Sassy, you're confusing the message with the messengers.

The Shadows, who tried to sow chaos, created unity in the form of the Army of Light and Interstellar Alliance. This was not their intent, but it happened anyway. Should we therefore say the Shadows = peace?

In other words, it's not Jesus' fault that there was all this chaos committed in his name. In fact, I contend that no revolutionary figure me had their messages acted upon in the long term the way they intended.

If you want to take the Bible literally, well, you can't, because there are way too many contradictions and outright fallacies. It therefore must be taken as metaphor, allegory, etc. Others in this thread have explained those quotes you listed in this sense, sassy.

Now I have to go lie down, as defending Jesus just made me nauseous.

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"You do not make history. You can only hope to survive it."
 
GE, I agree that Jesus cannot be held responsible for what all of his so-called followers do. Jesus wanted peace, unity, understanding of each other, not the division and chaos, which most, if not all religions have at times produced. But in regard to your original post, Jesus #2, a mythological...Aryan Jesus... that many have hanging on their walls... my point is that as this representation of Jesus is just that, a representation, to understand its significance, what it really represents, we must examine how those who embrace this rather phony representation of Jesus really see Jesus, and that, not the superficiallity, is what counts. So, I am not confusing the two, but saying that you must look at both to understand either one.

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You're speaking treason! Olivia De Havilland as Maid Marian
Fluently! Errol Flynn as Robin Hood
You're talking treason! Olivia De Havilland as Arabella Bishop
I trust I'm not obscure. Errol Flynn as Dr. Peter Blood

Pallindromes of the month: Snug was I, ere I saw guns.
Doom an evil deed, liven a mood.
 
As a non-practising catholic, I found that far too many people look without for answers when they should be looking within. Even though Jesus encouraged unity, forgiveness etc, in alot of cases it has gone the other way around.

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"To live is to risk"
Lennon - ItB
 
The trouble with comparing Jesus to the Shadows is that, on one hnd, thier philosphy is laid out in pretty bare terms for all to see, whilst His has become obscured.
The one trouble with quoting from the New Testament is that no-one can be quite sure just how accurate it is. After all, It was not written by Jesus himself, but by people who proclaimed to be friends, followers etc. The one who wrote a great deal of the new Testament, St. Paul, had, apparently, never met Jesus in the flesh. We will never actually know exactly what his true ideals were since Paul set up such an extensive propaganda campaign. the cloest we'll ever get to the real man is what's been dug out of the Dead Sea Scrolls, and they give us a very different idea of the man. He was, most definitely a revolutionary, and not so much a Ghandi style, non- violent protester, as a fanatic who hoped his execution would stimulate a country wide rebellion against the existing order. In this, he is more like the Shadows, who also manipulated others to create division and disruption.
As for the Aryan Jesus being displayed in Italian houses, there are other portrayals out there, such as the Black Jesus's which, IIRC, are popular in South America for one thing. The man himself, we are led to believe, is Caucasian, but after spending so long in Egypt, where some African blood must have seeped into the ranks of the Israelites, is it not logical to accept a less than 'white' image of the man?
Sorry, folks: got a little side tracked there!


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" Beauty in the midst of darkness."
 
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...I really don't think people see Jesus as caucasian anymore. Just another example of the changes in religious beliefs that make its philosophy changeable but supported by those who believe it is not changeable. Regardless of what is believed presently, there is a big difference 'IN ALL' religious doctrines compared to traditional historical followings.

That, of course, is the problem with the Shadows and any other 'force' that uses traditional thought patterns to further a modern or future goal. Doesn't work and never will. Same basic problem with precedent in the legal system, teachings in Medical Schools, and all the other 'sytems' using 'the past' as a basis for their sojourns into the future. We did see that in B5's eventual resolution of the war with the Shadows - didn't we?...
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Gary

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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR> The trouble with comparing Jesus to the Shadows is that, on one hnd, thier philosphy is laid out in pretty bare terms for all to see, whilst His has become obscured.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Actually, the Shadows' philosophy is not "laid out in ... bare terms for all to see." Remember that most of the Shadow war was spent trying to figure out what the heck they wanted and why they were fighting in the first place. Only after Sheridan went to Z'ha Dum, got Anna, Morden, and Justin in the same room, heard their side of it, killed himself, and met Lorien, did he finally understand what was going on.

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"You do not make history. You can only hope to survive it."
 
No offense, but this entire thread verges on the offensive.

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"Dawn's in trouble? Must be Tuesday." -- Buffy Summers, "Once More With Feeling."
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by PsionTen:
No offense, but this entire thread verges on the offensive.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Why?

I was just thinking that there have been some pretty interesting thoughts in this thread.
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"Isn't the universe an amazing place? I wouldn't live anywhere else." - G'Kar, B5: Rangers
Kribu's Lounge | kribu@ranger.b5lr.com
 
OFFENSIVE? WHERE? i think all the posters here have been NOT offensive, quite civil toward each other..and rather tame..

I don't see why I can't be Christian AND have an open mind.

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I want my B5 TV!
 
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