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Channe Takes On "To Live And Die In Starlight" (SPOILERS)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR> I don’t agree with the criticism saying that it was too easy for Martel and Company to destroy the Hand ships. No, I found that believable. This is B5. There are no shields. It’s entirely possible for a blast to go right through the hull of another vessel – not only is it good physics, it’s what would happen. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Channe, I agree with this statement, but you left out an important detail that REALLY convinced me. See, when I was reading info on the series and heard of 'The Hand' which was supposed to make the Shadows look like insects, and that they were a billion years old, to me there is no way in hell we could touch them. Even in B5 a race that old would have ships that ships like the ones in LoTR couldn't touch. A FLEET of Whitestars was needed to take on Shadow ships. To me, this was a concern, but it was addressed in the series, but it wasn't believable because of B5 series not having shields.

There was a piece of dialogue where the Ambassador explains:

<table bgcolor=black><tr><td bgcolor=black><font size=1 color=white>Spoiler:</font></td></tr><tr><td><font size=2 color=black> The Hand is still banished. Those running those ships are those who serve them, not the hand themselves. And those ships were mere 'toys' compaired to what The Hand really has, and that those 'toys' were given to their servants

So IMO, we haven't SEEN The Hand, or their ships, or their abilities at all. It is all still to come, and they are still elsewhere </font></td></tr></table>

Ok, now for the downside of this dialogue revealed. To me this seemed the SAME as the Shadows making their return in early B5. They didnt appear at first, but their 'associates' did. The Shadows also had servants who did most of the dirty work. This part of the story kind of seems re-hashed, as if they took the Shadow story, made them older and banished, and re-did that part of it.

However that being said, I am still interested to learn what The Hand really is.

<table bgcolor=black><tr><td bgcolor=black><font size=1 color=white>Spoiler:</font></td></tr><tr><td><font size=2 color=black>(I thought it interesting that The Hand was short for The Hand of God)</font></td></tr></table>

I also have a feeling that they wont be an integral part of the series. I cant see JMS doing something like the Shadows as a core part of Rangers. Hopefully this is just a teaser and things go in a whole different direction. Guess we will wait and see.

Oh, on a side note, I agree with a lot of Channe's post. The weapons pod scream made me cringe too. I am not even sure I like the whole weapons pod idea personally. But that kind of thing is opinion. You are either going to like that idea, or not like it. I just happen to not really like the concept. *shrug* small detail.

Overall I give it a two thumbs up and hope we get to see a series. I think this IS a better pilot than The Gathering. I am really curious to learn more about some of the other characters that there wasn't time to develop in the movie.

Good job everyone.

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'I don't believe in the no-win scenario' - JTK
 
You're absolutely right!
And when so many so-called "reviewers" miss such an openly stated point, it completely undermines their credibility.

We haven't seen The Hand.. or their true abilities yet.

Those Nasgul we saw last night were just more "dark servants".

------------------
"Draal gave Zathras list of things not to say.
This was one. No.... *tsk tsk*
No. Not good.
Not supposed to mention... "one", or... THE one.
Hmmmm.
You never heard that."
 
Re: The Hand. Don't you think JMS knew we would all scream "Shadows all over again"?

I seriously doubt this is the last we'll see of them; JMS doesn't leave big things like that hanging, or at least not the JMS I know.

I enjoyed the weapons pod scene, but I'm a bit confused by it. Someone else above mentioned the amount of time it would take for Sarah to slide into the thing, and then start targeting enemy ships. It seems to me that having the computer auto-target ships would be a lot quicker.

Do you think the weapons pod could be used in conjuction with auto-targeting, though? I suppose that could be something powerful, but I think we're going ot have to learn more before we come to a conclusion!

The scream, eck, it was one of the few times I cringed. It was a bit over the top for the scene, IMO, not that Myriam had any choice.
wink.gif


All in all a decent start for a series. I can't wait to see more of the cast!

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"Get out of my way, or by God I'll shove you out the airlock!"

[This message has been edited by BlackStar (edited January 20, 2002).]
 
TLADISL was ok. It excelled in some areas, and fell flat on its face in others.

The Good

David: Well acted, and well written. His backstory is cliched, but fits in with what we've seen with Rangers before. More important than the backstory is what I originally assumed would just be a plot device. "Running away" from the first battle looks like it will give David a mindset similar to Sinclair's survivor's syndrome. He'll now purposely put his life on the line in battle, and risk his ship at a moments notice. During the battle where the Valen is destroyed he is more than ready to get between the enemy ships and the Valen. Hopefully that is expanded on.

The Hand: People have complained that JMS has just redone the Shadows, and created another super alien race. He has created another super race, but the Shadows these are not. The Shadows were out to create chaos, the Hand are out to create a new order. The Hand also seem to have more religious significance, with their followers seemingly caught up in a cult like situation.

The Gunnery System: Very cool idea, but with it we need to see several cuts between the system and the exterior battle. Seeing Sarah firing for prolonged periods of time makes the battle uninteresting as we have no real idea what is happening to the ship itself.

Dulann and Turk: Dulann was interesting enough from the pilot itself. Turk is my pick to become this series Vir. He seems like comedy relief at first, but develops into one of the series best characters.

The Bad

Sarah the Gunner: The way she was acted, and written just turned me off. Maybe something interesting will come from her, but I wouldn't really mind if she were dropped.

The middle part of the film: The first and last 20 minutes of the movie were excellent. I could have lived without David as the water boy (One of those lines/situations you could see coming a mile away) But overall were great... Between these parts was a mass of television I just couldn't really get into. Watching the movie a second time I wasn't as disinterested the second time, but still not that great.

The Haunted Ship: I'm just hoping that this is used for the pilot only, and it turns out the crew rid the ship of its demons when they dealt with the traitor and allowed the dead crew to rest in peace.

G'kar: Totally wasted. There was no reason G'kar was in this movie rather than any other Babylon 5 cast member involved in the Alliance. His travels may have been a good enough reason to have him on the mission, but weren't used nearly enough. Furthermore his lines in some places were just awful, and did we really need to hear the "Nobody here is what they appear" variation?

The Ugly

Nothing really... The Fast Motion Scream gunnery sequence falls into here, but lasted for a few seconds.

To the person who noted the age of the B52s.

Yes, they are quite old, but remember the US uses them mainly because they spent a ton developing them and there's no reason to spend the money to create another heavy bomber. It's a situation of getting your moneys worth. In the Liandra's case, the last 20 years have seen a rash of new ship building. In that time we've see the creation of the Whitestars, Omega Destroyers, Warlock destroysers, and The Drahk have returned. The Liandra has simply fallen behind the technology curve. It seems to fall into the same class as the Whitestar, but the Whitestars can do everything the Liandra can do and more.

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"So I went to see Ambassador Londo, First he wants the Shadows, then he doesn't want the Shadows, first he's in the war, then he's not in the war..."
 
It's not like The Gathering was so great either, but it grew into B5.

I liked the telemovie. And I think it can evolve into something even greater.

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Let's build a snowman! He'll be our best friend! We can make him tall, or we can make him NOT so tall! WE CAN NAME HIM SHANNON BILLY BOB OR JILL!-Swan 'Cannibal:The Musical'
 
I agree with a lot of what Channe said. The bit about "We live for the One, we die for the One." - it seemed a lot more mysterious when it wasn't said every five minutes. I'm climbing on a limb here to say that -maybe- they're repeating it because it's so detrimental to the Rangers. But then again, a Ranger shouldn't -have- to repeat it, so I don't know.

Sarah's screaming during the one action scene was a bit much. I found myself wincing for the duration of it. I can understand an angry cry, but something that long...

And as for G'Kar, I'm going to sing his praises along with everyone else. Andreas -is- G'Kar. He embodies this character so perfectly, just like wine. Just gets better with age. As for the rest of the characters, hopefully the series will bring out more character development, especially for Firell, Kitaro, and the rest of the crew that wasn't really touched upon. I do like Dulann, however. I was afriad that he'd ending up a washy mix of Delenn and Lennier, but he is his own character.

It definitely has series capability, I'm interested in seeing what happens when it comes to that. Although I'm hoping that this whole Hand idea won't be too prevalent, it reminds me too much of overcoming the Shadows. It's far too easy to create a worse bad guy for the "good guys" to try to fight. But above all, I have faith in JMS to give us quality episodes. :)

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"There's always hope, because it's the one thing nobody's figured out how to kill yet." - Galen
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jackie Morden:
He'll now purposely put his life on the line in battle, and risk his ship at a moments notice. During the battle where the Valen is destroyed he is more than ready to get between the enemy ships and the Valen. Hopefully that is expanded on.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

He's still a Ranger, and as he said, he's not a coward. But I think the decision to stand down not only already started haunting him, but it might continue be a demon dogging his actions every so often through the series. And you know how B5 loves demons...

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>The Hand: People have complained that JMS has just redone the Shadows, and created another super alien race. He has created another super race, but the Shadows these are not. The Shadows were out to create chaos, the Hand are out to create a new order. The Hand also seem to have more religious significance, with their followers seemingly caught up in a cult like situation. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes, but he used a lot of the same language to describe the Hand. I noticed the significance of Kafta's relationship with the Hand - and I liked it, I liked it a lot.

But there's that motif, which bothers me. I'm sure that it'll change in a series, but for right now, it's a bit too similar to the language used by Delenn to describe the Shadows for my comfort.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Furthermore his lines in some places were just awful, and did we really need to hear the "Nobody here is what they appear" variation? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Like I sad, not perfect: but fun!

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channe@[url="http://cryoterrace.tripod.com"]cryoterrace[/url] | "I wonder," said Frodo, "but I don't know. And that's the way of a real tale."
 
I only found it so, so. I prob. had too high expectations, since it was only a "pilot."

The scrpit was only good, it could have used some revisions.

FX were great.

Sets were corny, and I thought they took away from the seriousness of the movie.

Gunnery pod was interresting, but Myriam made it kinda goofy with her screaming and kicking.

I'm sorry I have to say this but:

Myriam was terrible. She over-acted like crazy, and since my older bro is a talented and educated actor, I do know what to do, and what not to do. It did seem as one reviewer ponted out that she tried to upstage dylan in every scene.

Dylan, Alex and Katsulas, were all very good, and I could see where Dylan could bring his char.

Also:
SPOILERS
Reviewers kept complaining about how easily they beat the Hands ships, but those weren't actual Hand ships. Those were gifts, much like Drakh tech. This pissed me off, because reviewers just didn't get this.

So. It was alright. Has potential, and if made into a series I'll be looking forward to it. I hope JMS puts a little more into the story. It seemed pretty clunky, not fresh and original like his other stuff, and like what I was expecting.


my two cents.
Phil

------------------
"And that, Mollari, is why it will not be your people, or mine, or the Gaim, or the Drazi or the Vorlons or the Shadows who in the end will stand astride the galaxy like giants. It will be the humans."
"I think you are the one who is mad, G'kar," Londo said. "I can choose just as well as the humans. I can choose to stay in this cell, with you, or I can choose to leave."
"Yes, but can you choose for there not to be a cell at all?"
"I don't understand," Londo said.
"Exactly," G'kar said. "Exactly."
 
We all do.

------------------
"And that, Mollari, is why it will not be your people, or mine, or the Gaim, or the Drazi or the Vorlons or the Shadows who in the end will stand astride the galaxy like giants. It will be the humans."
"I think you are the one who is mad, G'kar," Londo said. "I can choose just as well as the humans. I can choose to stay in this cell, with you, or I can choose to leave."
"Yes, but can you choose for there not to be a cell at all?"
"I don't understand," Londo said.
"Exactly," G'kar said. "Exactly."
 
We all do.

------------------
"And that, Mollari, is why it will not be your people, or mine, or the Gaim, or the Drazi or the Vorlons or the Shadows who in the end will stand astride the galaxy like giants. It will be the humans."
"I think you are the one who is mad, G'kar," Londo said. "I can choose just as well as the humans. I can choose to stay in this cell, with you, or I can choose to leave."
"Yes, but can you choose for there not to be a cell at all?"
"I don't understand," Londo said.
"Exactly," G'kar said. "Exactly."
 
I couldn't have said it better myself.

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"There's always hope, because it's the one thing nobody's figured out how to kill yet." - Galen
 
Ok. It seems like most of you enjoyed watching Rangers, with the odd few fan boyish nit picks that seem to be clouding their judgement somewhat.
But...how does it compare with other pilots (like Trek etc) and more importantly, how does it compare to the TNT movies?
Does it feel fresh like A Call To Arms or is it more of a River of Souls ie: watchable but forgettable?
I must say that The Hand sound fascinating. Is this the same Hand that Sheridan referred to in that dream sequence from B5?

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'I plan to live forever, or die trying' - Villa Blake's 7

[This message has been edited by orac (edited January 20, 2002).]
 
SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS

You guys have some great thoughts above!

Only three things made me squirm (aside from some bad dialogue):

1 - when G'Kar was said he thought the dark vs. light legends were just legends. G'Kar? No... Someone else could have said that. Not G'Kar.

2 - Why didn't the Fingers (the minions of The Hand) just blow up the Leandra the first time and be done with it? Why was the little diplomat so important?

3 - the weapons pod. yuck.
-------

Loved the Naming of Names! Loved some of the lines and humor!


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Sorry - life got fun and interfered with my plans to be diligent.
 
I thought the movie was well done with what was on hand.
smile.gif
It isn't the best B5 related thing out there, but it is good. It is better than "The Gathering" and look what that turned into.
laugh.gif
If there is a series, I'd say that it would be something that is really, really good!
cool.gif
Besides, isn't the point of a pilot is to test the waters, to see what people like and don't like?

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Ivanova is always right. I will listen to Ivanova. I will not ignore Ivanova's recommendations. Ivanova is God. And if this ever happens again, Ivanova will personally rip your lungs out.
 
I truly loved Ranger's, I thought it was wonderfull and I hope to see it become a series, after all what series have really started on a high note anyway, But I think this was a high note so I do hope that it will become a seeries.
 
I can't believe you forgot about Tirk, Channe! He made the movie for me. Your review is otherwise spot on. The gunpod is the most controversial topic it seems. I too thought it was unconventional but it will probably be tweaked over time. My final judgement stands at good with room to grow.

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Never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience.
### Hi, I'm a sig virus. Please add me to the end of your signature so I can take over the world. ### - Caught from Kier Darby @ vBulletin infidel_dog@rangerone.b5lr.com
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Re: The Hand. Don't you think JMS knew we would all scream "Shadows all over again"?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Exactly. And...

<table bgcolor=black><tr><td bgcolor=black><font size=1 color=white>Spoiler:</font></td></tr><tr><td><font size=2 color=black>Did anybody notice that the entire nub of their defeat of the "Fingers" was play on the whole notion of "doing the same thing twice in a row, but not doing exactly the same thing?" Or how much David's strategems depended on slieght-of-hand, illusion and misdirection? JMS not only knew we would all scream "Shadows all over again!" he commented on that fact, in the script. G'Kar's "Nobody here is exactly what he appears" is just the icing on that particular cake. JMS must be reading the comments on usenet and elsewhere and laughing his ass off. "Wow! They fell for it again!" </font></td></tr></table>

You'd think that by the time we got to the third series that isn't going to be what it looks like at first, people would start to catch on.
smile.gif


Regards,

Joe

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Joseph DeMartino
Sigh Corps
Pat Tallman Division
joseph-demartino@att.net
 
Joe is so right. May JMS laugh at me until he bursts.

Martel works. (One L, or two?) And that's another reason why he works. And why he makes a fitting lead character.

That's just part of why I desperately want to see a series. Potential up the wazoo, down the pike, through the roof, and everywhere (in particular
smile.gif
).

--

Delenn is a hotty, I've added Tirk to my review. I wrote the darned thing at 5:30 in the morning after driving some GeekFest party guests home - I was bound to have forgotten *something*. My apologies to Gus!!

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channe@[url="http://cryoterrace.tripod.com"]cryoterrace[/url] | "I wonder," said Frodo, "but I don't know. And that's the way of a real tale."

[This message has been edited by channe (edited January 20, 2002).]
 
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