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Cast changes

AntonyF

Administrator
Staff member
B5, of course, had quite a few cast changes over its course. I think they're good, as they keep you on your toes.

But I often think, who would have gone from Crusade? and who might have been added? (I did read about a Zathras being added)

What are the thoughts from everyone here? Who do you think may have gone?



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"You're such a gentleman. Too bad I'm not a lady." - Max, Dark Angel

"X5-599. I've got a heart for you." - Zack, Dark Angel
 
OK, this could be a huge spoiler even though it's merely speculation on my part from the Centauri Trilogy.

<table bgcolor=black><tr><td bgcolor=black><font size=1 color=white>Spoiler:</font></td></tr><tr><td><font size=2 color=black>In the second book Galen is helping the three initiate mages. In the third he is no where to be seen. This could be because the mages have gained enough experience to be able to claim the mission as their own but Galen does not seem to be one to miss a chance to beat up on Shadow minions. Personally I think part of why Galen was allowed out of the hiding place was to route out and destroy left over Shadow tech much like the Excaliber would have ended up doing. Since Galen is not there on Centauri Prime I think by the end of Crusade it is quite possible that Galen would be toast, an ex-mage, gone the way of the dodo, dead. </font></td></tr></table>

So that is one character I think had a big bullseye on their chest.

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"This so-called new religion is nothing but a pack of weird rituals and chants designed to take away the money of fools. Let us say the Lord's Prayer forty times, but first, let's pass the collection plate."-Rev. Lovejoy in The Joy of Sect
 
Anthony - I thought that Zathras being part of the case was one of the rumours / ideas thrown around at the time that Crusade was in development. I think the general concept then (although possibly only one held amongst fans due to lack of concrete information) was that it would be about a group of Rangers aboard a White Star following the establishment of the Interstellar Alliance. Hey! ... That sounds kinda like ...
laugh.gif


I speculated in another thread about Lochley's possible role - why have a show with two captains on it? But I think that her character arc depends on Gideon remaining with the show, at least for a while ...

Eilerson would seem to be expendable once the conspiracy plot kicks in, except that they may still be searching for a definitive cure, and his family are supposed to be wealthy / important business people, who would presumably have useful connections. And who's to say what IPX's role would be in the long run?

Matheson didn't seem to be so clearly defined. While I liked the character, he is possibly the one that appears most expendable, which probably means that he has a core role to play in the full story.

Galen's a possibility. He has a mentor role, and mentors often are killed (or die) to provide added momentum or power to their students. Think Kosh I, Yoda, Obi Wan, Qui Gonn Jinn.

Added characters could have included Ranger support, but it would depend on how much the Excalibur ended up out on its own. I would actually suspect that it became more of a Blake's 7 style rag-tag crew of individuals, like Dureena, Max and Galen, rather than being an official thing, like crew reassignments or Rangers. Okay, so Max was assigned to the Excalibur, but he's pretty much a free agent. Well, enough to help make my pint, anyway!

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In early posts about Crusade, JMS said that the crew might contain a member of the "family Zathras". It's hard to judge by 13 episodes, though.

If somebody said there was supposed to be an English Ranger guy with a cape and a retractable pike for smacking people on the head, we would've all been a little confused for the first two years of B5.



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By Grabthar's Hammer!
By the Suns of Worvan!
You Shall BE AVENGED!
~Doctor Lazarus, Galaxy Quest episode 52, "Today is the Tomorrow of Our Yesterdays"
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by AntonyF:
B5, of course, had quite a few cast changes over its course. I think they're good, as they keep you on your toes.

But I often think, who would have gone from Crusade? and who might have been added? (I did read about a Zathras being added)

What are the thoughts from everyone here? Who do you think may have gone?

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Am not to sure if Zafras would have fit in. There was a character in one of the final episodes though, played by the same guy who play marcus cole, in my oppinion amongst the best characters to come out of B5. Anyway I could have seen this new character he played in a sort of reacurring role. But trouble is I cannot remember the outcome of that episode, cos Crusade is given a really bad time slot here in the UK. So I have only ever seen the series through once. Where as I have whached the original B5 series almost as often as I have re whached all the Star Trek shows, with the obvious exception of Voyager cos it was so dumbed down it sucked.

Another character I could have seen coming into the fold now and then would have been garabaldi another favorate of mine. I mean can you imagine Garabaldi working with or maybe even against the captain in some way. After all it was the company that Garabaldi inherited that bult the ship that crusade is set on right, stands to reason that they could have brought him into the series for a few episodes had it been allowed to run its course.

Crusade, I have to admit initially did not sit well with me. But after about the third episode I was beginning to reall enjoy it, and I was saddened when they ceased making them.


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Ian M Cullen
 
Not only did I hear about Zathras as one of the crew, but also a Minbari warrior....

As for who dies:

Gideon - eventually I think so. The Apocalypse box seems to reduce his survivability a great deal.

Matheson - Hmmmm, perhaps. Although, the crew would find a telepath essential. Sooner or later, I reckon he'd betray his ideals and use his abilities freely, but to die? Don't know.

Galen - this guy's just a bit too powerful to be able to stick the show forever... he might not die, but get written out another way - perhaps be recalled to the Technomages hiding place. OTOH, he's had lots of personal loss (Elric, Isabelle, etc...) - remind you of a certain ranger we all loved?

Lochley - too early to say, her role hadn't really been developed yet.

Chambers - she's probably got too important an arc, which hadn't really developed yet. If she dies at all, it would be pretty late on, I think!

Max - Wouldn't he just do anything to stay alive?

Dureena - so angry, she could well get herself killed. OTOH, there's room for her to develop and grow, to calm down and learn from Galen maybye?

Trace Millar - dead as a doornail. No doubt about it!

Max's cat - chasing star mice.

WarpPig

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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by AntonyF:
B5, of course, had quite a few cast changes over its course. I think they're good, as they keep you on your toes.

But I often think, who would have gone from Crusade? and who might have been added? (I did read about a Zathras being added)

What are the thoughts from everyone here? Who do you think may have gone?

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Gone?
-----
Only the Dr. Chambers, if I'm lucky. All the rest should stay!


Added?
------
A new Doctor.


Guest appearances by:
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Other Technomages, even if they're not in the same physical location as the Excalibur and her crew.

Zathras (one or more of the remaining nine)

Draal

G'Kar

Delenn

Lennier (I don't think he died during the Telepath Crisis.)

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KoshN
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Vorlon Empire

"To Live and Die in Starlight"
pilot movie for "Babylon 5 - The Legend of the Rangers"
January 2002 on The Sci-Fi Channel.
http://www.scifi.com/b5rangers/
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Doctor Gonzo:
OK, this could be a huge spoiler even though it's merely speculation on my part from the Centauri Trilogy.

<table bgcolor=black><tr><td bgcolor=black><font size=1 color=white>Spoiler:</font></td></tr><tr><td><font size=2 color=black>In the second book Galen is helping the three initiate mages. In the third he is no where to be seen. This could be because the mages have gained enough experience to be able to claim the mission as their own but Galen does not seem to be one to miss a chance to beat up on Shadow minions. Personally I think part of why Galen was allowed out of the hiding place was to route out and destroy left over Shadow tech much like the Excaliber would have ended up doing. Since Galen is not there on Centauri Prime I think by the end of Crusade it is quite possible that Galen would be toast, an ex-mage, gone the way of the dodo, dead. </font></td></tr></table>

So that is one character I think had a big bullseye on their chest.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

<table bgcolor=black><tr><td bgcolor=black><font size=1 color=white>Spoiler:</font></td></tr><tr><td><font size=2 color=black>I think it was because the Kane, Gwynn and Finian have gained enough experience to be able to do the mission on their own. As cloister mages, they are given tasks to complete, so they can develop into full mages. Galen, a full mage, was there to destroy the Shadow Jumpgate on K0643 (the jumpgate to Xha'dam) with his Spell of Destruction, and was waiting for the other three cloister mages to complete the destruction of Xha'dam and escape before he could destroy the jumpgate. See CP Book #2, page 59 top. The three cloister mages wouldn't have been able to destroy the Shadow jumpgate, because only Galen possesses the Spell of Destruction. Taking care of the Drakh on Centauri Prime, in Book #3, was the task of Vir and the three cloister mages, not Galen. </font></td></tr></table>

I HOPE you're wrong about that bullseye. That's one character that's too interesting to lose

<table bgcolor=black><tr><td bgcolor=black><font size=1 color=white>Spoiler:</font></td></tr><tr><td><font size=2 color=black>although Galen does have some Marcus qualities about him</font></td></tr></table>

.

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KoshN
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Vorlon Empire

"To Live and Die in Starlight"
pilot movie for "Babylon 5 - The Legend of the Rangers"
January 2002 on The Sci-Fi Channel. http://www.scifi.com/b5rangers/

[This message has been edited by KoshN (edited November 01, 2001).]

[This message has been edited by KoshN (edited November 01, 2001).]
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Delbert:
Eilerson would seem to be expendable once the conspiracy plot kicks in, except that they may still be searching for a definitive cure, and his family are supposed to be wealthy / important business people, who would presumably have useful connections. And who's to say what IPX's role would be in the long run?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Eilerson's role is not expendable. Who's to say that he's forever connected with IPX?


<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>
I would actually suspect that it became more of a Blake's 7 style rag-tag crew of individuals, like Dureena, Max and Galen, rather than being an official thing, like crew reassignments or Rangers. Okay, so Max was assigned to the Excalibur, but he's pretty much a free agent. Well, enough to help make my pint, anyway!
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Agreed! (on the general concept, since I've never even seen a single frame of Blake's 7)

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KoshN
-------------
Vorlon Empire

"To Live and Die in Starlight"
pilot movie for "Babylon 5 - The Legend of the Rangers"
January 2002 on The Sci-Fi Channel.
http://www.scifi.com/b5rangers/
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by The_Wolf:
Where as I have whached the original B5 series almost as often as I have re whached all the Star Trek shows, with the obvious exception of Voyager cos it was so dumbed down it sucked.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Is whached some kind of official UK spelling of watched or something? You do it consistently.

crazy.gif


Just didn't know if it was some sort of slang or something.

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KoshN
-------------
Vorlon Empire

"To Live and Die in Starlight"
pilot movie for "Babylon 5 - The Legend of the Rangers"
January 2002 on The Sci-Fi Channel. http://www.scifi.com/b5rangers/

[This message has been edited by KoshN (edited November 01, 2001).]

[This message has been edited by KoshN (edited November 02, 2001).]
 
People often mention Galen as being in the mentor role. Now, I can see why the crew of the Excalibur might think that, after all, he's this wise technomage who comes along at the right times to get them out of trouble, and seems to have a lot of answers, but I never saw him as a mentor, and I feel that viewing him as just this is something of a disservice to character

He still had a lot to learn. Moments such as that when Dureena returns his staff to him demonstrate that he doesn't entirely understand the people he's working with. The Well of Forever showed us how he allowed a very personal mission get in the way of the "greater good" as it were.

I always felt that he could be developed in so many interesting ways, that seeing him as simply someone to give Gideon the occasional piece of advice just doesn't work for me.

Oh, as for the original question, I always found Dr Chambers thoroughly uninvolving. Tho Matheson's death would make for better dramatic stuff. (especially if it came about due to Gideon trusting the apocalypse box or something...)

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The man was so fiiine, he could get any good girl into trouble…Can you guess what his name was?…Well…The Jackal...
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Happy Phantom:
People often mention Galen as being in the mentor role. Now, I can see why the crew of the Excalibur might think that, after all, he's this wise technomage who comes along at the right times to get them out of trouble,
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

This makes me think he has some probes planted (e.g. on Gideon in Racing the Night, when Galen rescues Gideon off his scooter during the chase). So how come Galen doesn't know about the Apocalypse Box in Gideon's quarters? Hmmm. I wonder how much of the Technomage lore was invented by JMS and/or Jeanne Cavelos for the Technomage trilogy after Crusade was filmed.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>...and seems to have a lot of answers, but I never saw him as a mentor, and I feel that viewing him as just this is something of a disservice to character

He still had a lot to learn.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Exactly. He's only been a full mage for a little over 8 years (January 2259-January 2267), is still young, is sometimes wrong, and doesn't have all the answers.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>
Moments such as that when Dureena returns his staff to him demonstrate that he doesn't entirely understand the people he's working with.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

...or that he never thought that one of them would go to such great lengths to do something like that for him. It's obvious to me that he's not used to that.


<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>
I always felt that he could be developed in so many interesting ways, that seeing him as simply someone to give Gideon the occasional piece of advice just doesn't work for me.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Agreed. He's not that simple of a character.



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KoshN
-------------
Vorlon Empire

"To Live and Die in Starlight"
pilot movie for "Babylon 5 - The Legend of the Rangers"
January 2002 on The Sci-Fi Channel.
http://www.scifi.com/b5rangers/
 
This makes me think he has some probes planted (e.g. on Gideon in Racing the Night, when Galen rescues Gideon off his scooter during the chase). So how come Galen doesn't know about the Apocalypse Box in Gideon's quarters?

how do we know he doesn't?

Or, maybe the A-Box can jam his probes or something.

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Never start a fight, but ALWAYS finish it.

" The dogmas of the quiet past are inadequate for the stormy present. The occasion is piled high with difficulty, and we must rise to the occasion. We can not escape history. We will be remembered, in spite of ourselves. The fiery trial through which we pass will light us down in honor or dishonor, to the last generation. We shall nobly save, or meanly lose our last best hope."
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Cern:
This makes me think he has some probes planted (e.g. on Gideon in Racing the Night, when Galen rescues Gideon off his scooter during the chase). So how come Galen doesn't know about the Apocalypse Box in Gideon's quarters?

how do we know he doesn't?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

...because of what JMS has said about what Galen would do with it if he found out.
From JMS:

<table bgcolor=black><tr><td bgcolor=black><font size=1 color=white>Spoiler:</font></td></tr><tr><td><font size=2 color=black> toss it out the nearest airlock </font></td></tr></table>


<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Cern:
Or, maybe the A-Box can jam his probes or something.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

This sounds like something for the NC-17 area.
blush.gif
laugh.gif


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KoshN
-------------
Vorlon Empire

"To Live and Die in Starlight"
pilot movie for "Babylon 5 - The Legend of the Rangers"
January 2002 on The Sci-Fi Channel. http://www.scifi.com/b5rangers/

[This message has been edited by KoshN (edited November 07, 2001).]
 
The box would warn Gideon in advance (remember "Do not trust... Galen"?)

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You are not entitled to your own opinion. You are only entitled to your own informed opinion.
-- Harlan Ellison quoting Gustave Flaubert

drakh@spamcop.net

[This message has been edited by drakh (edited November 08, 2001).]
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by drakh:
The box would warn Gideon in advance (remember "Do not trust... Galen"?)

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Right, the box may be fearful of Galen and what Galen can do to it.

<table bgcolor=black><tr><td bgcolor=black><font size=1 color=white>Spoiler:</font></td></tr><tr><td><font size=2 color=black> Spell of Destruction to wink it out of existance,
but would the box be able to detect one of Galen's microscopic probes on Gideon's uniform, and be able to warn Gideon about it specifically? </font></td></tr></table>



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KoshN
-------------
Vorlon Empire

"To Live and Die in Starlight"
pilot movie for "Babylon 5 - The Legend of the Rangers"
January 2002 on The Sci-Fi Channel.
http://www.scifi.com/b5rangers/
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by KoshN:
Right, the box may be fearful of Galen and what Galen can do to it.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>No, when viewed in the right order, that warning comes just before Galen's little mutiny in The Well of Forever.

The box... knows things... things that nobody else knows... It gives you an edge.

And, as would become clear in Larry DiTillio's episode, the box can do far more than just throw out cryptic predictions...



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You are not entitled to your own opinion. You are only entitled to your own informed opinion.
-- Harlan Ellison quoting Gustave Flaubert

drakh@spamcop.net
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR> The box... knows things... things that nobody else knows... It gives you an edge. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

But, sometimes, it lies.

Remember the scene where Gideon "won" the box.
It was a setup. The guy lost Deliberately.
He was Ecstatic that he'd found a sucker to take it off his hands.
There did seem to be a caveat.
Remember how carefully he questioned Gideon about "Accepting the box of his own free will" ??
Then, when the guy started to Tell Gideon what the box was, it said something to him that frightened him so badly he Ran.
Right out into the street where he was killed.
Best Guess: the box probably predicted his death within a few Minutes, knowing that the prediction would cause him to run away.
Whether the box actually Knew that he'd run in fromt of a skimmer or not is something only JMS knows.



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The 3 most common elements in the Universe:
Hydrogen, Greed, Stupidity!
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by drakh:
And, as would become clear in Larry DiTillio's episode, the box can do far more than just throw out cryptic predictions...
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Do we have a title for that? Was it one episode or a three-episode arc?

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KoshN
-------------
Vorlon Empire

"To Live and Die in Starlight"
pilot movie for "Babylon 5 - The Legend of the Rangers"
January 2002 on The Sci-Fi Channel.
http://www.scifi.com/b5rangers/
 
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