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Babylon 5 influenced Ds9, is Ron Moore the New JMS of this decade

G

Garovorkin

Regular
Years ago JMS took his b5 concept to all of the Major studios including Paramount which rejected his concept.Then some years later we have Ds9. Both great series similar to each other and different. B5 had the greater impact of the two and I think that more then anything else forced trek them to write not only good stories but stories with long arc and unlike past trek series, this one had honest to goodness real character development. Paramount was fortunate in that they had a very talented Ron Moore, Robert Hewitt Wolfe and Ira Steven Behr all of who wanted to take trek beyond its stagnating mold. There are so many interesting comparisons that we can make. Sheridan vs Sisko,Kira vs Ivonova, Odo vs Garabaldi, Bashair Vs Franklin, Cardassians vs Centuri, Bajorans vs Narn and other area how are they similar and How do they differ. The Shadow was vs the Dominion War.Ron Moore took the Trek Formula and to large extent successfully kicked into new territory. Right now with His Wonderful Re imagined Galactica Series he has become the JMS of this decade and Era of science fiction. Opinions on this one? :cool:
 
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DS9 in wasn't similar in many ways to B5, it was a blatant rip-off. There is an entire backstory on it which has been done to death on this board. However some of us do try to enjoy DS9 as its own show, but its very difficult even at that to know that many of the ideas were ripped from B5.

RDM doesn't get street credit for his Star Trek run IMO, and he can't be called anything close to B5 until HIS show is done and it has to end as masterfully as B5 did. Then I'll "think" about it.

But probably then still no.
 
What Recoil said. No.

I enjoy DS9 - ironically, for just the parts that are not ripped off from B5. But it's nowhere near the awesome epic Babylon 5 is. And BSG certainly isn't going to become so either.
 
I enjoy watching BSG, but I in no way feel awed and inspired by it the way I do by B5. So, I have to also go with the answer: No.
 
The man won a Peabody award his show BSG even thought it is a remake is as unique in its own way as B5 granted its not as good a show but its up there he is one of of he most significant presence in the scif world this decade in that the critic and many scif fans apalud what he has done . so I think a case could be made for him being in the same category and league as JMS. But the Way I did catch the fact that Gul DuKat's name had a certain similarity to a certain Mimbari Leader. Of course both men could not have been more different. Look at the fact that he produced a great show in Ds9, and yes Recoil I have heard all the stories about Both shows, but for us it worked out to our advantage we got two great tv shows and Ds9 is not only the best trek series of all, it is one of the top scifi series of all time:thumbsup: Why can't he be considered the new JMS?
 
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Well, for one, I'd say he can't be considered the new jms because Moore didn't create a show whole cloth. He's played with others' ideas, reconfigured and refined them to fit whatever story he wanted to tell, but still they originated from someone else.
 
Awards a JMS don't make.

In any case, I am serioulsy annoyed by how everyone and everything always has to be "the new X" .. like everything in history should always repeat itself, and nothing is ever unique. That's stupid, and not fair either to the new X, or the old X.
 
Definitely. It's not like JMS was ever a big financial success, or business genius.

Which makes such comparisons even more pointless.
 
I have to agree, I do not put Moore into the same class as JMS, regardless of how many awards he has won. I could be wrong but I don't think Moore has created anything entirely original; he has been consulting producer on a few shows and staff writer and helped those shows by penning some good episodes but he did not start from scratch as JMS did.

Besides B5 I love JMS's work on the comics Rising Stars and Amazing Spiderman. When I try and compare the two (JMS and Ron Moore) they just don't feel the same to me at all. When I see JMS attached to a show or project I am exciting and anxious, but Ron Moore, at times I can kind of take him or leave him.
 
here is something else to chew on. I like JMS I think B5 is the best science fction show ever made. But outside of B5 what other success has he really had on television? Crusade lasted just 13 episodes, the Ranger never made it past the movie stage,we know the intent was for a series there. Jeremiah Ive never seen so I don't know why that one did not last. The first b5 movie did not get made, from what i have heard we can be thankful there, Lost tales(I like the the movie) may spawn one or two additional movies but that will and peter out. He has not been able to duplicate his success with b5.

Of course neither has Chris Carter



Ron Moore has done DS9, which ran for 7 year, G vs E which had potential but is a failure, BSG which illmake its 4h season, he has had success beyond DS9. Look even though Ds9 was based of of Trek and and BSG was based off the schlocky 70's series they are in their own way unique. Your saying that both of his shows lack originality because they were base off of something else,that is not the case im sorry

Well ,lets look at a few things about B5, They did Homages to Alfred Bester's The Demolished Man, even to the point that they named a character after him played by Walter Koenig .The mind wipe concept of B5 was a Homage to the concept in to mind demolishion concept in The demolished man, and there was a telepathic police force in that book which one could argue influenced the Psycops and the psycore you could point to the fact B5 did a homage or two to Blake 7.The drazi ships in B5 were homages to the first Liberator ships, as was the bridge of the Whitestars they homaged the bridge of the liberator. Now in light of this does that diminished the uniqueness of B5 . I think not
 
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Ron Moore's best work, at least for the year he was involved in it, was Carnivale. I haven't seen enough of BSG to judge it, I can barely remember G vs. E and while I remember enjoying DS9 quite a,lot it has been too long since I have seen it for me to give it a fair evaluation. In my mind Moore should be known for Carnivale above everything else.

I will say however that I'm not one to point to JMS as being a genius level writer. I think he is a good-great writer, but he has his fair share of stinkers and as I have said in the past I don't think any of his comic work has been up to snuff and his other TV work hasn't been impressive in the slightest. There really isn't anyone I would consider to be a genius level writer or creator in the world today, JMS probably comes closest, along with Joss Whedon, but they have too many holes in their collective bodies of work for me to declare them at that level.
 
Garovorkin said:
. Right now with His Wonderful Re imagined Galactica Series he has become the JMS of this decade and Era of science fiction. Opinions on this one? :cool:
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"His Wonderful..." sounds like you're elevating him to either royalty or godhood. In honesty, I like BSG and admire it even though I can't watch it regularly without getting depressed but I don't know any of his other work, really. In order to really compare, though, I'd have to check out Moore's novels, comics, animation, audio drama and theatrical scripts.

The question I'd lob back to you is why SF fans always seem to have to compare...pretty much everything. Who's the new JMS or Serling or Roddenberry or Whedon? What references or homages or rip-offs are in this show? Why is it that genre fans don't seem to be able to enjoy anything just for itself?

I also wouldn't equate major commercial success as a valid measure of greatness. After all, 'reality' shows are a huge commercial success but I don't know anybody with taste who'd refer to them as great.

Jan
 
Making comparisons is not unique to fandom, critics and reviewers make comparsions as well. I think it boils down to simply points of references, this persons work is reminicient of that person . Ive seen new writers compared to classic scif writers. I don't honestly know why comparisons are made. It seems Fans who loved a given author or tv show are looking for the next best thing just to compare things to see if the new is worthy of being in the same class as the old. its a tough question to really answer and one I have never really thought about.
 
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JMS was good, and from what I've seen of B5 and BSG, JMS kept his show running closer to the "big idea" than Ron Moore ever has. BSG is still pretty episodic, and they mess with the continuity now and then.


Of course, my loyalty belongs to neither of them, for Joss Whedon is my master now.
 
Garovorkin said:
But outside of B5 what other success has he really had on television?
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I guess we have to look at success from our own viewpoints. To me Jeremiah was a "success" because I enjoyed the show very much. But from a commercial success stand point it probably wasn't very good. And to me when I think of SF, truthfully the first things that pop into my head iare not television or movies but instead books or writing.

I'm not completely dismissing Ron Moore, I'm just stating my opinion that I like JMS better. I also like BSG and some of the other shows he has worked on. But everyone takes something from someone else in terms of creativity am I right? I'm sure this topic will surface once again when the new Trek movie comes out next year. People will be debating who is better; Roddenberry for creating the original Trek or Abram's and his re-imagining of the series. Either way to me it doesn't really matter. Everyone has their opinions and are entitled to them and I am always interested in hearing or reading others points of view. Sometimes things are brought up that I wasn't even aware of or it perhaps makes me want to take a closer look.

I have said in the past I don't think any of his comic work has been up to snuff
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I love his comic work, especially on Rising Stars and Midnight Nation. He is what got me back into Amazing Spiderman in the first place. I had stopped reading it for a long time and since I was famaliar with him I picked it up again and I wasn't disappointed at all.
 
Koshfan Whedon is good no argument there.Jonny commercail success? its not the most important thing but I do tend to take it into consideration. JMS was successful with B5, Gene Roddenberry was successful with the Original Trek, Chris Carter was successful with Xfiles what they have in common is beyond the products that made them famous they all had no other major lasting success at anything else. But they are all great men of Science fiction Television. Having only the one major success does not diminish them. By the way scif Books do rate higher with me as well.
 
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