Anyone else apprehensive about "The Hand"? **SPOILERS**

[Chris Springob]

Anyone else apprehensive about \"The Hand\"? **SPOILERS**

This post deals with the AICN review of "To Live and Die in Starlight". Rather than use spoiler boxes on every single post in this thread, why don't we just agree right now that anyone who isn't interested in learning about the spoilers from that review should stopping reading this now and proceed no further?

**SPOILERS AHEAD**

The one part of the review that left me a little concerned was this: "This "pyramid" is a gateway to another "dimention" where the new race called "The Hand" resides. It is said by one of the characters later (I'm not giving everything away) that this race was banished billions of years ago as is so powerfull that they make the Shadows look like "insects"."

My reaction: If this is true, then I hope that the appearance of this race is one-time event, and that they will not be returning for the series (if there is a series). Why? Because the introduction of more aliens with god-like powers would kind of cheapen the "Dawn of the Third Age" and the idea that the younger races are on their own now. I'm OK with relics of the First Ones still being around (like the Apocalypse Box, assuming that that's what it is), but I'd rather not any of the First Ones themselves come back, especially not creatures who "make the Shadows look like 'insects'". How in the world do you fight something like that?


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[gkarfan]

Re: Anyone else apprehensive about \"The Hand\"? **SPOILERS**

I'm glad you posted this without a spoiler-box, because I can't use the spoiler-boxes with Webtv. I can't click on them.

As for "The Hand", didn't JMS already name a B5 character that?

Tammy


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[Ninja_Squirrel]

Re: Anyone else apprehensive about \"The Hand\"? **SPOILERS**

In a dream/vision that Sheridan had (thanks to Kosh), an image of Ivanova told him, "You are the hand." I'm not sure if that's what you're talking about.

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Not many fishes left in the sea. Not many fishes, just Londo and me.

 

[hypatia]

Re: Anyone else apprehensive about \"The Hand\"? **SPOILERS**

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by gkarfan:
I'm glad you posted this without a spoiler-box, because I can't use the spoiler-boxes with Webtv. I can't click on them.

As for "The Hand", didn't JMS already name a B5 character that?

Tammy


<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

gkarfan, my mom had webtv for a bit. Have you tried arrowing down and around to the spoiler box, and then when it is "boxed", hitting enter? I remember that is how her webtv worked, I don't know if it will work for spoiler boxes or not.


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"I do not believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense,
reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use."-- Galileo

 

[Citizen V]

Re: Anyone else apprehensive about \"The Hand\"? **SPOILERS**

I imagine there would be a good bit of closure about them in the pilot, since the series is not a sure thing.

Even if they were the potential main villians of the series, I doubt we'd see much of them in the first season.

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"The war is never completely won. There are always new battles to be fought against the Darkness. Only the names change."--Delenn

 

[bakana]

Re: Anyone else apprehensive about \"The Hand\"? **SPOILERS**

As far as a "character" already named the Hand, it's also possible that somone is remembering that Harlan was, at one point, supposed to write a B5 episode that would have been the Sequel to his story "the Demon With The Glass Hand". Unfortunately, Harlan was unable to write the story.

I believe it was Harlan's Heart Attack that messed up the writing schedule. By the time he was out of the hospital, the time slot for the story had passed.



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Yes, I like cats too.
Shall we exchange Recipes?

 

[Myrl]

Re: Anyone else apprehensive about \"The Hand\"? **SPOILERS**

Most everything in the B5 universe (aka JMS universe) is foreshadowing. Be it a statement someone makes, or an image of a ship, or even a character's cough can be a precursor for things to come.

I din't watch a lot of Crusade, but if memory serves me, Gideon's old ship was destroyed by a very Shadow-like vessel. In the review, the mole described the bad guys ships in a similar way. It's possible JMS was intending the Hand to be "the major foe" of the Crusade series before it was cancelled.

OR: "the Hand" may be like the Thirdspace aliens, as in they make a big entrance before being obliterated by the good guys by episode end. Keep in mind, Kosh's asassination attempt in the Pilot was merely a prologue for the series itself and was never delineated the rest of the series.

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Roy Batty: I’ve seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser gate. All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain... Time to die.

[This message has been edited by Myrl (edited August 01, 2001).]

 

[Dekion]

Re: Anyone else apprehensive about \"The Hand\"? **SPOILERS**

As far as the ship in Crusade being from the Hand, there is a SPOILER for Crusade ahead. . .

The "shadow" like ship was made by Earth, as detailed in To The Ends of the Earth, one of the unproduced Crusade scripts.


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[Mondo Londo]

Re: Anyone else apprehensive about \"The Hand\"? **SPOILERS**

Since we're not using boxes in this thread, I'll just blurt it out:

This connection is also mentioned quite profoundly in the second book of the Techno-Mage trilogy, Summoning Light.

The humans are seriously experimenting with Shadow technology. The modified Earth ships we see in Season 4 are just the tip of the iceberg.

The best case scenario, imho, is that all this evil stuff gets blown up while experimenting, not just the prototype that destroyed Gideon's ship. But somehow, I doubt the galaxy will be that lucky.

Does Sheridan and the ISA ever discuss this Shadow Experiementing with the EA?


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"What's up, Drakh?"

Michael Garibaldi

 

[Mondo Londo]

Re: Anyone else apprehensive about \"The Hand\"? **SPOILERS**

To get back on topic, I agree -- I wouldn't want another "super powerful alien race" story line...

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"What's up, Drakh?"

Michael Garibaldi

 

[GKarsEye]

Re: Anyone else apprehensive about \"The Hand\"? **SPOILERS**

It's also possible the reviewer was just wrong. That happens all the time.

Either way, it's a bit silly to speculate. When I first saw Crusade, I thought they had run out of ideas and that B5 was the only good thing that would come out of this franchise. I was glad it was canceled. Then I read about how TNT screwed it up and some of the stuff that was supposed to happen. Needless to say, I have since changed my mind.

If a series that I thought would've totally sucked would actually have been great, it is therefore reasonable to assume that another one would be great as well.

Come join me, brethren, in praise of the mighty JMS!

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"You do not make history. You can only hope to survive it."

 

[gkarfan]

Re: Anyone else apprehensive about \"The Hand\"? **SPOILERS**

Hypatia, I can't make the Webtv "box" go over the spoiler-box, so I can't read the spoilers!

Tammy

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[Darth Vader]

Re: Anyone else apprehensive about \"The Hand\"? **SPOILERS**

While talking about super-powerful alien races...Does Thirdspace ring a bell?

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"I am the state"
Napoleon

 

[Dekion]

Re: Anyone else apprehensive about \"The Hand\"? **SPOILERS**

In fairness to JMS, and I am in no way saying your concerns are not justified (I have them too) I have to just put this in. It is already established in the B5 universe that there are races out there more powerful than the Vorlons and Shadows. Lorien said he was old when the Vorlons and Shadows were young. His race, and many more. Thirdspace also established that aliens in that power category existed. With this in mind we can say that the idea may not be original, but there is already a precedent set for it. The key thing is for JMS to do it with originality, and make it interesting all over again. I have every confidence that he will.

I personnally like the idea of a series set in a time where they are preparing for, and trying to thwart, the plans of this race to enter our world. After a couple of years of buildup they can fail, and an all out war can commence. Or, just a small portion of them can enter, thus creating a new galactic power that would have to basically build supply lines from scratch.


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[hypatia]

Re: Anyone else apprehensive about \"The Hand\"? **SPOILERS**

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by bakana:
As far as a "character" already named the Hand, it's also possible that somone is remembering that Harlan was, at one point, supposed to write a B5 episode that would have been the Sequel to his story "the Demon With The Glass Hand". Unfortunately, Harlan was unable to write the story.

I believe it was Harlan's Heart Attack that messed up the writing schedule. By the time he was out of the hospital, the time slot for the story had passed.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Now that would have been abso-fraggin-lutely fantastic!! I actually didn't know Harlan wrote the story behind that Outer Limits episode at first, but its my favorite OL ep to this day! It later inspired me to look for more of his work. But a sequel to "Demon" would be pretty depressing, by its very nature, wouldn't it?

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"I do not believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense,
reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use."-- Galileo

[This message has been edited by hypatia (edited August 01, 2001).]

 

[Frizzell]

Re: Anyone else apprehensive about \"The Hand\"? **SPOILERS**

I must admit that when I first read the review at AICN, the reference to the "Hand" gave me pause. Then, I remembered that I was on the AICN website. Alot of their reviewers and posters appear incapable of expressing their opinions without using the words rocked or sucked. It is a fanboy site. While sometimes I find it vaguely amusing to lurk there, I rarely place much faith in their reviews. Glenn was the exception. I am not trying to disparage the site, but I think we definitely need to keep the source in mind.

Having said that, I am hopeful that the appearance of a new race will not hinder the movie from a fan's perspective. I do not want anyone experiencing ThirdSpace flashbacks.

I will refrain from judgement, until I see how the movie plays out. I would rather hope for the best, than anticipate disappointment.

Frizzell

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When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in a confederacy against him.
-Jonathan Swift

 

[hypatia]

Re: Anyone else apprehensive about \"The Hand\"? **SPOILERS**

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by gkarfan:
Hypatia, I can't make the Webtv "box" go over the spoiler-box, so I can't read the spoilers!

Tammy

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

gkarfan, I am a reckless old fool, so I took the liberty to email Joe D. (since the "contact us" info is still giving his email address out) and he will forward the question to AntonyF. If I know webtv, the answer may very well be: sorry, you can't read the spoiler boxes with webtv. But with some luck (and the will of Valen, I suppose) maybe Antony will have a way. Webtv can't download, but spoiler boxes are not really downloads. (At least I don't think they are.)

Anyhow, I hope you don't mind that I took the liberty to ask for you. Since my mom used to have webtv, I've been curious about what it can and cannot do. Of course, the key here is: used to have. Webtv is pretty limiting.

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"I do not believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense,
reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use."-- Galileo

[This message has been edited by hypatia (edited August 01, 2001).]

 

[Dekion]

Re: Anyone else apprehensive about \"The Hand\"? **SPOILERS**

Personally, I loved Thirdspace. I think it and In The Beginning were both fantastic.


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[drakh]

Re: Anyone else apprehensive about \"The Hand\"? **SPOILERS**

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by bakana:
Unfortunately, Harlan was unable to write the story.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Harlan never intended to write it - the whole thing was just a false rumour spread by jms to mess with his head.

 

[GKarsEye]

Re: Anyone else apprehensive about \"The Hand\"? **SPOILERS**

How do you know that?

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"You do not make history. You can only hope to survive it."