Why it will be unlikely to see a B5 movie

The post below is taken from the JMSNEWS. After reading that, I sadly realized that the studios are sauvage capitalists and they have no emotional attachments to any project and just want money (which is not a problem, as long as they share the money with others that made this possible).

So, we can see a crew that would love to be part of the B5 project again, but feel they are being abused. Therefore WB probably would not call the original cast to any B5 movie project. And for us, without the original cast, better forget about any movie..... Can´t somebody take the rights from WB?

And by the by...just to keep some measure of perspective on all
this...for as much as I may grump about the profit situation, and the
DVDs, the ones who *really* get screwed the most on this are the
actors. Their reoyalty formula is even worse than the WGAs, and when
it comes to making the DVDs...

Back when they were doing the first season or so, WB called me in for a
meeting. Very important, they said. So I go in and sit with them.

"We have a problem," they said. "Andreas and Peter won't do
commentaries or interviews, and Walter doesn't want to let us use his
footage from the documentary."

"Why not?" said I.

"They want to get paid."

"Then pay them," said I.

"That's not our policy," said they.

"Then change it."

You would think I turned to the Pope and said, "Who farted?"

"We can't change our policy, it's our policy."

"Of course you can," I said. "It's not as if Your Policy exists
outside the natural realm, like some kind of Greek perfect ideal. You
made the policy, and you can change it."

"If we pay THEM, then EVERYONE is going to want to get paid."

"And that's bad how?" I asked. "You're putting actors on camera or
behind a mike. Asking them to perform. They should be paid for that."

"Well, we want you to talk to them, tell them it's important to you
that they do this."

"Nope."

"Why not?"

"Because they're right and you're wrong."

"Doug has said he'll talk to them."

"That's not my problem. I won't do it."

"We're asking you as a personal favor. Talk to them."

So I talked to them. I called the actors in question, who said, in
general, "They won't pay me."

"I know. So don't do it."

"You're okay with that?"

"Absolutely."

"So...why are you calling?"

"I promised I'd call, so this is my call, to say good for you."

"Oh."

And that, as they say, was that.

Which is also, incidentally, why Harlan wouldn't do the DVDs.

jms

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That's a very interesting conversation. It shows me how little I know about the business.

You know, I wish all of them had refused to do the commentaries. If every single actor and JMS too had just said "no", I wonder if that magestic "policy" would have bent a little bit.

So, we can see a crew that would love to be part of the B5 project again, but feel they are being abused. Therefore WB probably would not call the original cast to any B5 movie project. And for us, without the original cast, better forget about any movie..... Can´t somebody take the rights from WB?

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Actually, JMS <u>does</u> own the movie rights to Babylon 5. It was the one thing he was allowed to keep in the original negotiations. In this case, the problem isn't about rights, it's about money. It takes a LOT of it to make a movie.

Several months ago, when somebody did option the rights from JMS and commissioned a script ("The Memory of Shadows"), word was that the people involved did approach WB for financial backing. WB has a policy that stipulates that it does blockbusters with big names and so they weren't interested in doing a B5 movie with the original cast. There was a fan effort to change their minds that was ultimately unsuccessful.

To me, and I *really* hate to say this, what's got me more pessimistic about a B5 feature film is the dubious success of 'Serenity'. We've always figured that fan support would cause enough of a 'buzz' to be the basis for a feature's success but with all the fan support in the world, 'Serenity' is fast disappearing from movie screens. It only had to make $80 million to be pretty certain of a sequel but last I heard, it's still under 25 million. It would have been great to be able to point to a rousingly successful 'Serenity' and say "See, WB? You've got something available that's got a huge cult following, just like that."

Jan

Hypatia,

Sincerely......After knowing WB´s sellfish policies (sauvage capitalism), I believe they simply would launch all DVD´s with some few extras and no interviews AT ALLl.....

I don't understand. Why would they think they didn't have to pay them? I have a lot of standing policies too, and getting paid for what I do is one of them. If I'm a trash man, and I cart your trash away... you're going to pay me! Why would acting be any different? It makes no sense.

I wonder where the actor's guild stands now on the DVD issue in regard to compensation?

From what I understand, newer shows are already tying interviews, commentaries and the like into regular production these days. It's the older shows who have to approach the actors, writers, directors and crew individually.

Jan

I am on the side of "we won't be seeing a movie crowd" simply because I think TMOS may have been JMS's last chance to see B5 on the big screen .He either has to do the movie now or not all the original B5 cast are not getting any younger and if he waits to longer a new younger cast will be required anyway.I am hopeful as the next person about seeing the original cast on the big screen but I am realistic about the very real possibility that it will never be done no matter how mucch I,JMS and all of us want it to.

....because the dunces are all in confederacy against us?

They may be dunces, but they certainly have overwhelming numbers on their side.

Shaal Mayan,

but I am realistic about the very real possibility that it will never be done no matter how mucch I,JMS and all of us want it to.

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This problem just points to one thing. MONEY. If we had the money to pay an independent production we could do it. In order to work this out would be need a group of investors, fans contribution, and cast lower salaries to work this out. Unfortunately it is too many questions rather than answers

I still say JMS needs to cozy up to George Lucas. Lucas could certainly afford to back a B5 feature.

Seriously, Lucas is loaded and he might actually enjoy something like B5. Heck, he just donated $1 million to the Martin Luther King Jr. Memorial.

You know, I wish all of them had refused to do the commentaries. If every single actor and JMS too had just said "no", I wonder if that magestic "policy" would have bent a little bit.

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No, we just would have gotten bare bones discs, and they would not have sold as well, and Warner Brothers would have seen that as not much fan/consumer interest in the series.

Remember, blame for anything going wrong cannot possibly have ANYTHING to do with them (Warner Brothers). All blame points outward.

Hypatia,

Sincerely......After knowing WB´s sellfish policies (sauvage capitalism), I believe they simply would launch all DVD´s with some few extras and no interviews AT ALLl.....

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You're far too optimistic. It would have been <u>no extras</u> (incl. no interviews) <u>at all</u>, like Paramount did with "Keen Eddie" ....like Universal did with "Kolchak" ....etc.

To me, and I *really* hate to say this, what's got me more pessimistic about a B5 feature film is the dubious success of 'Serenity'. We've always figured that fan support would cause enough of a 'buzz' to be the basis for a feature's success but with all the fan support in the world, 'Serenity' is fast disappearing from movie screens. It only had to make $80 million to be pretty certain of a sequel but last I heard, it's still under 25 million. It would have been great to be able to point to a rousingly successful 'Serenity' and say "See, WB? You've got something available that's got a huge cult following, just like that."

Jan

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This is exactly what I have been thinking and I agree 100%.

Sometimes the fans don't realize how LITTLE they really count for when it comes to how successful a movie is. Serenity DID have a big cult following worldwide. The DVD sales were great for Firefly. Fans were trying to get friends to watch the movie (and many were successful). I can tell you that I personally introduced 6 people to the movie that would have otherwise never seen it and had never seen the series --- and they loved it. I know many other fans of the show and movie did the same.

And after all that, the movie is barely at $30 million.

I think this is as good an example, or as good of a reality check, as can be done. Now I think some people will realize why studios don't listen to fan writing campaigns. You do need MORE than a cult following in a lot of cases to make a movie success. Perhaps "recognizable star power" is important. Perhaps its the genre. I do know Serenity was heavily promoted --- which is more of a slap in the face given its box office performance.

Now I know a lot of you might be thinking "well B5 has a bigger fanbase." That may or may not be true. Either way I will submit to you that it would be harder for the average B5 fan to get a friend to go see a B5 movie who has never seen the series than it was to get someone to see Serenity. Its also not as easy to get people involved in the show as quickly since it starts off so slow and takes a while to build up to the arc.

Either way, I think Serenity's performance in the box office is a good indication that we won't see another movie in the Firefly universe, and its also an indication of how a B5 movie would have done, and why we probably won't see one of those either. I think that Serenity was truly one of the best movies I have seen. Everyone I know that saw it loved it. Hell critics loved it. But the bottom line is, for as great as it was, it just wasn't able to draw the crowds to buy the tickets.

Even the cult following and fan support wasn't enough to scratch the surface...

(I wonder if the Serenity movie DVD sells a lot, how, if at all, that would change things or make an impact)

(I wonder if the Serenity movie DVD sells a lot, how, if at all, that would change things or make an impact)

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I don't think it will make any difference at all studios are interested I think at how much a flick makes at the box office again IMO dvd sales don't count ..I am still dismayed at how the fans of Firefly could have gotten a studio to pay and make a movie after only a few eps what was 13 and B5 can't get nothing off the ground .JMS had one chance to make B5 into a movie and it will be his last and ours as well.Similiar I think IMHO of what happened to Crussade the fans wanted it back it never came to be ..The only hope that I can see for the future of B5 is with Mongoose and it's novel line this avenue it seems maybe the last chance to perhaps tell the Crusade story,telpath war , B5 legend of the rangers .

The difference between B5 and Firefly as movie properties is ownership. Universal owns Serenity, so even if it didn't do great at the domestic box office, the studio will be able to offset its cost with revenue from overseas releases and domesitc and foreign DVD sales. Warner Bros. does not own the film rights to B5, so they really have no reason to involve themselves in producing such a film at all. Their attitude is "Let Straczynski rasie the money and get it made. Maybe we can do a distribution deal later, or produce the DVDs or something - if the filim does well. If it is a hit we still reap the benefits of increased sales of the show DVD and any interest from the networks in a future series. And we do with without risking a dime of our own money or putting ourselves in a position where we'll only get a small percentage of the revenues and Straczynski and his partners get the lion's share of the profits."

I'm not saying this is "right" in some cosmic sense, but from Warner Bros. point of view, given the realities of the situation, it does make a certain amount of sense.

Regards,

Joe

Similiar I think IMHO of what happened to Crusade the fans wanted it back it never came to be ..The only hope that I can see for the future of B5 is with Mongoose and it's novel line this avenue it seems maybe the last chance to perhaps tell the Crusade story,telpath war, B5 legend of the rangers .

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And if the Mongoose novels aren't canon, we don't even get a proper telling of the Crusade story and the telpath war. I hope the future of B5 universe stories is not solely in the Mongoose novel line. As for B5 Legend of the Rangers, I'd prefer to forget all about it. To have that extended badly in the Mongoose novel line would be the worst thing that could happen.

I think the other thing we need to bear in mind where Firefly/Serenity is concerned is that Joss Whedon actually has a history as a successful movie writer (including Alien4 and Toy Story) which JMS patently does not.

(I wonder if the Serenity movie DVD sells a lot, how, if at all, that would change things or make an impact)

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I don't think it will make any difference at all studios are interested I think at how much a flick makes at the box office again IMO dvd sales don't count.

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Actually, that's completely untrue. They make more money now from DVD sales, which are massive and have been steadily increasing for a long time, than the box office, which is declining in recent years as people watch more films at home. This is why the movie studios are so invested in the upcoming format war between Blu-ray and HD-DVD as a DVD replacement.

The Serenity results are disappointing (especially given how great the film was), and yes, this could bode badly for a B5 movie, but I'm still holding out for the DVD sales of Serenity. No-one in their wildest dreams expected the Firefly DVD set to sell so well (no matter how brilliant it was) after the terrible ratings of the show, and maybe Serenity can pull off a repeat performance. If it does, and therefore pulls in a load of cash for Universal, a movie based on a series which did *much* better than Firefly may still look tempting. (Fingers crossed)

Hollywood is notrious still for taking into account first week takings, DVD and overseas box office do not seem to figure as highly on the success-o-meter. Not sure why.

Maybe one day we will get more B5 as a straight to DVD or another set of TV movies, or even a new series. I'm not sure that cinema is the way to to anyway...