Why a Babylon 5 Movie could happen.

The Telepath War could come out as a radio play.

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Let's go back and read the subject line, shall we?

What's that word in the middle?

"Movie"

Radio plays are irrelevent to this topic.

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No radio plays are not irrelevant to this topic. You are one who is being silly. Go back and read the first post in this thread.

There has been some discussion about whether a B5 movie or TV series is possible given the lack of great success that a property like "Firefly" had at the box office. However this discussion fails to take into account the rapid changes that are underway in the business of media. Unlike years past, there are now a number of ways for the consumer to see their favorite science fiction shows. For example, there are DVD box sets, netflix and video ipods. All these create a market for a movie to turn a profit ("Chronicles of Riddick" and "Serenity" are great examples of this). The trend is what is important here.

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(My italics)

Doctor Who radio plays on DVD/CD have been on sale for many years and were one of the reasons the BBC risked bringing it back. The same could be done for Babylon 5.
Downloading radio plays to iPod paying via PayPal or Apple is available now.
Disney has been selling straight to DVD sequels for many years.
Warner Brothers is charging people in the USA to watch season 1 Babylon 5 downloaded via AOL and BitTorrent.

We have the technology, so the play could go into production 1 year after the money is available.

T_Fleming was talking about ancillary market projects generating enough interest in a property to insipre a theatrical film, NOT about ancillary projects in media like DVD and radio being the future of said property. Read that passage again without the change in emphasis imposed by the added italics and this should become clear.

For whatever reason radio drama never died out as completely in the UK as it did in the US, but over here it is really, really dead. And if 30 years of books on tape and CD didn't bring it back, a change of storage medium to i-Pod isn't going to do it, either. On this side of the Pond, audio drama is a curiosity and a hobby. It is not a mass medium that can reach hundreds of thousands or millions of listeners, and it is therefore not commercially viable.

It would be a hideous bad joke to waste a story as important as the Teep War on such a project - even if anyone could be found to bankroll it. Short of JMS doing a project that produces George Lucas-sized revenues* so that he could finance a film himself, I don't see anything new coming in the B5 universe (with the possible exception of the Mongoose books in the UK and Europe) in the near future. 10, 20 years from now, when the fashions change and nostaglia sets in or space SF comes back into vogue - sure. Somebody at Warner Bros. will remember they own Babylon 5 and they'll probably try to do something with it. If we're lucky, whoever that is will be a fan and honor the original.

Regards,

Joe

* And that aint gonna happen because nobody's going to be as dumb as 20th Century Fox and sign the mercandising rights away. When the first film was going over budget Lucas traded his director's salary for the merchandising rights. By DGA rules he couldn't simply give up his fees, he had to be compensated. Fox thought it was getting a great deal - they were basically making Lucas fork over the money needed to finish the film, a modest pot-boiler they expected to make a small profit on, and in return they were giving up the rights to make toys based on the film - like anyone was going to want to do that. Lucas didn't become rich from his Star Wars residuals - he had the usual lousy Hollywood contract that gave him hardly any of that money. He made his original fortune on the royalties Kenner paid him on all those Star Wars toys. He was thus able to finance Empire and the subsequent films himself and reap the lion's share of the profits, since Fox is only his distributor. (Spinning off ILM, Pixar and THX into separate companies that do work under contract for other production entities made Lucas a whole other fortune.) Anyway, the point is that the particular set of circumstances that made George Lucas into GEORGE LUCA$ are not going to be repeated again, becaue the studios have learned their lesson from Fox's mistake.

Radio drama? WTF is this, 1939?

I don't understand the problem that so many people are concerned about the aging factor, really. I go to cons and see the actors fairly regularly - Pat Tallman, Bruce Boxleitner, Jerry Doyle, Stephen Furst, Jason Carter, Mira Furlan, Peter Jurasik, Tracy Scoggins, Joshua Cox and Marjorie Monaghan all within the last 14 months and I honestly don't see so many changes that couldn't be covered with modern professional make-up work. Most of it is strictly surface, such as graying hair in the men. Heck, I saw Bruce the year after the series ended and was struck by how much older he looked and it was mainly because he'd allowed his hair to go all gray.

Jan

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Our of curiosity, do you think the B5 actors look like they have aged more since the series than the actors who played Riker and Troi in TNG have since they did their series? When they reprised those roles for the Enterprise finale, they were the laughing stock of Trekdom, but I didn't think they looked so bad.


Anyways, people, get real- no B5 theatrical flick. It's just not big enough. At the end of the day, B5 is still our little secret. And what's so bad about that? It's like a cool indy band that you and a couple friends like and most people haven't heard of.
Anyway, a movie could never be true to the spirit of B5, which is greater than the sum of its parts thanks to the format of serial drama. Remember, there were B5 movies, albeit made for TV, and none of them could come close to the best episodes- because a movie has to be standalone, and the best episodes are not.

Radio drama? WTF is this, 1939?

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No 2006.

Here is the company's website.
http://www.bigfinish.com

A significant part of the market for these disks are drivers on long journeys who do not want to listen to pop music.

Radio drama? WTF is this, 1939?

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The Shadow Knows!

Radio drama? WTF is this, 1939?

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No 2006.

Here is the company's website.
http://www.bigfinish.com

A significant part of the market for these disks are drivers on long journeys who do not want to listen to pop music.

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Your precious radio drama is a great success only in your country. I know, those funky UK residents with their silly queen tend to be... quite fun sometimes.

BUT PLEASE!

Are you really that naive? Radio drama? GKE said it well. We're living in 2006, not in 1939. Don't generalise the radio drama (which already sounds like 1939), no one listens to radio unless it is the only option. Radio drama... oh please... UK should take a leap in the 21st century.

C'mon, now. What in Andrew's post called for such rudeness? Here in the States the market seems to be more for books on tape or CD than for audio drama but the market is definitely there with more and more authors reading their own works.

Or perhaps you hadn't heard that JMS is planning to finish post-production on his *radio series*, the 20 five-minute episodes of the "Adventures of Apocalypse Al"?

Something tells me that you're not only rude but wrong. With the proliferation of extremely portable sound reproduction, it's pretty inevitable that more than music will be being played. Radio drama/audio drama...po TAY to/po TAH to.

Jan

Jan, does that have something to do with the radio drama he wrote for scifi.com ages ago when they used to have (what was it called?) "Seeing Ear Theater"?

I loved those "radio" plays. And a few familiar voices popped up in a show or two, IIRC.

I'm pretty sure that the "Apocalypse Al" ones are completely different, Hypatia. IIRC, they're being produced by CBC. Back in late 2005 JMS said:

I believe it will thereafter show up on BBC Radio, Radio Ireland, the
US market, and a number of other places before ultimately being
released on CD.

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Let's hope. I don't think anything ever happened with the Seeing Ear Theater episodes ever coming out on CD, unfortunately. Maybe if Apocalypse Al is successful that could be resurrected, too.

Jan

Thanks, Jan.

I actually have an account with "Audible.com" I don't use it as much as I used to, but I do enjoy it. Books on tape, essentially, are great for freeing up your hands and eyes.

And they store your shows, so there is no losing them when you change computers.

Anyhow, I look forward to the CD coming out.

...no one listens to radio unless it is the only option. Radio drama... oh please... UK should take a leap in the 21st century.

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Radio drama has a lot going for it. It's CHEAP, and it lets the listener's imagination run wild. I remember some radio storytelling done in the 60's here in the USA (usually for special occasions like Halloween), and it was quite good (e.g. Ed and Wendy King's ghost stories on KDKA radio). The trouble is that most people today would have the same reaction you had, and that alone would prevent it from ever happening.

Also, it would have lower prestige than TV, similar to the lower prestige of a Direct-to-DVD movie. People would think "The show can't be very good is all they can get backing for is a radio drama." and avoid it, ....assuming they'd ever hear about it at all.

If you can get to the local library (or feel like spending a few bucks - I think the paperback is still in print) check out Stephen King's Danse Macabre, his meditation on the history of horror literature, film, etc. Read the chapter "Radio and the Set of Reality" for a brilliant analysis of raido drama - and also of why it has ceased to be viable medium in America. It is never going to come back as more than a curiosity, an acquired taste that can never recapture what it was for those who heard it when it was a new art form and television didn't yet exist.

I happen to have become a huge fan of the world of audio-only entertainment when I was in my early teens, collecting LPs and tapes of old time radio and writing and creating my own "radio" comedies and dramas (and parodies) on cassette tapes with friends. A few years later I was doing the same thing for my high school radio station. (My senior year American history project was a parody of The Shadow, written and recorded with two friends, one of them a musician who provided all the organ "stings" and act intros.)

But I'm afraid that audio drama has about a much chance of making a major come-back as epic poetry. Now, I happen to like epic poetry, I re-read The Illiad and The Odyssey and Beowulf every few years. But I'm not under any illusion that they're going to be on the New York Times best-seller list anytime soon, or that King himself, John Grisham or Tom Clancy are going to attempt the form.

Regards,

Joe

At the risk of further topic derailment, I must comment...

Audio drama is quite alive and well in the UK. I'm just a foolish American, but I actually became a fan of Doctor Who via the audio drama's produced by Big Finish, the company A_M_Swallow mentioned. I've always fondly remembered the days of my childhood, as I sat in my parent's home listening to the Star Wars radio drama on NPR. As soon as I discovered Usenet, I began downloading British audio dramas--those made for their radio networks, like Radio4, as well as commercially produced drama on CD--hence the Dr. Who stuff.

Big Finish makes enough from their Dr. Who audio drama CD's to pay their creative staff and the original actors from the TV series (except Tom Baker) and enough to pay for the license to make dramas from the BBC. I'm sure no one's getting rich, but they're more than breaking even. (Coincidentally, several B5 actors have "appeared" in the Big Finish plays.)

I know that the UK is a smaller market and that the Dr. Who fans are rabid, but remember, they were making money on these things well before the new series became a mega-hit. I would imagine, proportionally speaking, there are more UK B5 fans than there are US fans. I think it would be entirely feasible to create a line of profitable B5 audio dramas marketed primarily for the UK. And there would certainly be a healthy amount of Americans importing the stuff, too. Hell, as the Mongoose situation has taught us, WB UK can probably license something like that right now, with or without JMS's involvement.

I doubt it will ever happen. But I think it would be pretty cool if it did. Ask any Dr. Who fan. They'll say the audio dramas got them through years with no TV series and provided them with some stories that were equal to or better than anything on TV.

Tom Baker did an original audio drama years ago, Dr Who and the Invasion of the Pestacons...

I can't find it for toffee...

It was superb as a kid, we had the tape to play in the car when wen to on holiday... ahhh...

We are now totally derailed, but I must agree, there is a lot of milage in the audio drama format.

Big Finnish are also very open to new ideas, they've done works with Marvel, DC, 2000AD and lots with the Beeb.

From recent JMS comments one can gather that a Babylon 5 project may be on the verge of happening. It is my belief that this project will be distributed via unconventional means. Perhaps direct to DVD or downloadable or both. In any event this was what I was suggesting may be the future for any new Babylon 5 project. The means now exist to access and profit from smaller audiences (at least small by Star Wars standards). I believe the folks at Warner Bros. may be recognizing this.

If all of the above is true then the Babylon 5 fans have a great deal to look forward to. No longer will the network middle man be an obstacle to creative expression (witness "Crusade"). Ratings will no longer matter, fitting into a network self image will not matter (ala TNT) only sales figures will matter. Thus if a Babylon 5 project fails then there will be no network, bad time slots etc.. to blame.
(although lack of promotion is a perenial).

This could be a great time to be a babylon 5 fan. Unlike the 1990's our voices will count toward the success of any new project. We will be voting with our wallets.

What about animated shows? Movies like Riddick, the Matrix and I think Van Helsing have had animated spin offs. Certainly in the case of Riddick and the Animatrix these were quite successful, intelligent animations (I'd actually kinda hoped they would have done some more Riddick animes by now). And, of course, Star Trek and Star Wars have had animated series. It would bypass at least some of the problems of cast members having aged or having lost several of the cast, and could be done initially as a downloadable format like the Animatrix was, and then later released on DVD. Whether it would be enough to kickstart other live action projects like a movie, I don't know. I'm not even sure I want a movie. But done right, an animated series could be superb.

When asked at Heroes Con (June 30-July 2) if there would ever be 'Adventures of Lyta and G'Kar' stories, possibly in print he said not as long as "Andreas insists on staying beyond the Rim", that "The character's gone." It was obviously hard for him. I have a feeling that the same applies to Rick Biggs and Dr. Franklin.

Jan

When asked at Heroes Con (June 30-July 2) if there would ever be 'Adventures of Lyta and G'Kar' stories, possibly in print he said not as long as "Andreas insists on staying beyond the Rim", that "The character's gone."{snip}

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We could still have Lyta without G'Kar.

When asked at Heroes Con (June 30-July 2) if there would ever be 'Adventures of Lyta and G'Kar' stories, possibly in print he said not as long as "Andreas insists on staying beyond the Rim", that "The character's gone."{snip}

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We could still have Lyta without G'Kar.

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But that wouldn't be "The Adventures of Lyta and G'Kar", now would it?

From recent JMS comments one can gather that a Babylon 5 project may be on the verge of happening.

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A Babylon 5 project? From which comments? URLs...

It is my belief that this project will be distributed via unconventional means. Perhaps direct to DVD or downloadable or both.

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Hopefully both. I couldn't care less about "downloadable," personally, but it might increase the audience/exposure.

In any event this was what I was suggesting may be the future for any new Babylon 5 project. The means now exist to access and profit from smaller audiences (at least small by Star Wars standards). I believe the folks at Warner Bros. may be recognizing this.

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I have my doubts that the folks at Warner Brothers are capable of recognizing their own mothers.

If all of the above is true then the Babylon 5 fans have a great deal to look forward to. No longer will the network middle man be an obstacle to creative expression (witness "Crusade").

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I WISH we could witness a continuation of <u>Crusade</u>.

Ratings will no longer matter, fitting into a network self image will not matter (ala TNT) only sales figures will matter. Thus if a Babylon 5 project fails then there will be no network, bad time slots etc.. to blame.
(although lack of promotion is a perenial).

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Yes, people would have to know it exists.

This could be a great time to be a babylon 5 fan. Unlike the 1990's our voices will count toward the success of any new project. We will be voting with our wallets.

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Still, they have the costs of producing the project, to recoup. Somebody's going to have to put that money up front. Who's it going to be?