What's wrong with "the Gathering"?

[**DONOTDELETE**]

What\'s wrong with \"the Gathering\"?

This pilot was dull, but I never thought it was terrible. Could someone explain what was so bad about it?

 

[Nukemall]

Re: What\'s wrong with \"the Gathering\"?

I think I first saw 'The Gathering' (original cut) after the end of season 3, so I was disappointed by the prostetics and music primarily. And those ridiculously large guns that Sinclair and Garibaldi used.

Another thing I found was that having started to watch B5 regularly near the start of season 2, I thought Michael O'Hare was difficult to get used to (though after watching season 1 re-runs I was disappointed that he only did one season

).

I still haven't seen the revised cut, so I'll reserve judgement.

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"And you, madam, are ugly. But I shall be sober in the morning." - Winston Churchill
--
yan@ranger.b5lr.com

 

[Kribu]

Re: What\'s wrong with \"the Gathering\"?

I have foggy, very foggy memories of the original cut of the pilot. (I remember seeing the alien zoo, and I also vaguely recall the 'cone of silence'.)

In any case, when I recently watched the edited version on the DVD, I didn't think that The Gathering was bad. Ridiculous, occasionally, yes. (I honestly thought for a moment that the thing the dust smuggler was threatening that lady hostage with was a shoe... so sue me, it didn't look like a gun!)

The thing that bothered me most was, actually, not the story (which wasn't bad), or even the alien makeup - Delenn looked plain ugly and G'Kar wasn't quite as handsome as in the series

- but the hair and clothes of Del Varner (or the imitator) and Carolyn Sykes. It was just so... 1980s.

I know it's a detail, not an important one, but it made me gag. Of course, perhaps it wouldn't have looked quite so ridiculous when the movie first came out.

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"Isn't the universe an amazing place? I wouldn't live anywhere else." - G'Kar, B5: Rangers
Kribu's Lounge | kribu@ranger.b5lr.com

 

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Re: What\'s wrong with \"the Gathering\"?

What's an "alien zoo" or a "cone of silence"?

And since when is G'kar handsome?!

 

[bakana]

Re: What\'s wrong with \"the Gathering\"?

Kribu, I'd have thought that any woman would know that "what goes around comes around" applies to Fashion as well.

Even Bad Taste.

Of course, as soon as you saw Del Varner in that plaid suit, you Knew he was just "Wrong", so in that sense, the outfit worked perfectly.
He looked like the worst sort of Used Car salesman.



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Do not ascribe your own motivations to others:
At best, it will break your heart.
At worst, it will get you dead."

 

[Quagmire]

Re: What\'s wrong with \"the Gathering\"?

In the original cut the alien sector had all the aliens in the hall ala' white trash porch sitters. The rooms were small, think of the Drazi hotel from season five translated to a place with no outdoors.

When Lyta and G'Kar had their conversation a white light came down that was supposed to signify a device in effect that negated listening devices and kept outsiders from hearing what was said.

Keep in mind I can't remeber if I've actually seen the original version and my description is probably from others' posts.

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"Crying isn't gonna get your dog back. Unless your tears smell like dog food. So you can sit here eating can after can of dog food until your tears smell like dog food or you can go out there and find your dog."-Homer in The Canine Mutiny

 

[Kribu]

Re: What\'s wrong with \"the Gathering\"?

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by breen:
What's an "alien zoo" or a "cone of silence"?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The 'alien zoo' was the alien sector of the station - when Sinclair was showing Lyta the station, I think, there was a part with very non-human looking aliens (muppets?) in what looked like very crowded glass boxes... in other words, it looked decidedly like a zoo, not like private residences for alien ambassadors.

It looked a bit daft... I guess that's why it was dropped, later. They couldn't make the muppet aliens believable yet.

The 'cone of silence' was something that G'Kar 'conjured' when he was talking to Lyta - so that their conversation wouldn't be overheard. Again, that was something not used in the series, so I suppose that's why it was cut from The Gathering's new version.


<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>And since when is G'kar handsome?!

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hmmm... since... that's a bit hard to say, actually. Some time in season 2 (still a bit too angular in S1), perhaps? I do know he was simply gorgeous by S3. Or perhaps that's just my imagination.

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"Isn't the universe an amazing place? I wouldn't live anywhere else." - G'Kar, B5: Rangers
Kribu's Lounge | kribu@ranger.b5lr.com

 

[bakana]

Re: What\'s wrong with \"the Gathering\"?

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR> What's an "alien zoo" or a "cone of silence"?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Two of the things in the Original cut of "The Gathering" that Straczynski removed in the second cut.
The "Zoo" was the presumption that some quarters in the Alien Sector would have large Windows that allowed people walking down the corridor to look into their rooms.
It didn't make sense and JMS was happy to remove it.

The "Cone of Silence" was used in a scene where the characters wanted privacy for a discussion. They turned it on at their table in the zocalo.
It was also dropped as a bad idea later.



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Do not ascribe your own motivations to others:
At best, it will break your heart.
At worst, it will get you dead."

 

[Kribu]

Re: What\'s wrong with \"the Gathering\"?

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by bakana:
Kribu, I'd have thought that any woman would know that "what goes around comes around" applies to Fashion as well.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I guess you're right.

I'm just grateful that most others had better fashion sense than those two.

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"Isn't the universe an amazing place? I wouldn't live anywhere else." - G'Kar, B5: Rangers
Kribu's Lounge | kribu@ranger.b5lr.com

 

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Re: What\'s wrong with \"the Gathering\"?

Thanks for the descriptions, everyone.
Who would come up with the idea that alien quarters would be visable from the halls?!
I would like to see these muppets, though.

[This message has been edited by breen (edited January 22, 2002).]

 

[GaribaldisHair]

Re: What\'s wrong with \"the Gathering\"?

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>I would like to see these muppets, though.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

No you wouldn't.

Trust me.

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DaveC
"Want to talk socks?"

 

[Kribu]

Re: What\'s wrong with \"the Gathering\"?

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by breen:
Who would come up with the idea that alien quarters would be visable from the halls?!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

JMS?

I remember reading somewhere (Lurker's Guide?) that the reasoning was "well, they're aliens, who says they want the same kind of privacy that humans do". Or something like that.

Maybe they were just exhibitionist muppets. And regulated station protocol, so they were kicked out later on.

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"Isn't the universe an amazing place? I wouldn't live anywhere else." - G'Kar, B5: Rangers
Kribu's Lounge | kribu@ranger.b5lr.com

 

[Mondo Londo]

Re: What\'s wrong with \"the Gathering\"?

It's been a long time since I've seen the original version of The Gathering. However, I remember thinking it was worthwhile.

After seeing the latest version, with a new score, editing, etc., I still think it's worthwhile.

One thing that I remember was thinking to myself "what the heck is this Kosh guy saying?" just before he was attacked. Well, now we know...

Another thing I remember thinking back in 1993 or so (when I first saw it) was that it was too stereotypical to use the least human looking alien as the bad guy.

Of course, that didn't last the length of the show, did it....


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"What's up, Drakh?"

Michael Garibaldi

[This message has been edited by Mondo Londo (edited January 22, 2002).]

 

[bakana]

Re: What\'s wrong with \"the Gathering\"?

Actually, the Alien Zoo thing isn't so unlikely.

A lot of Motels have large windows looking out of the rooms just like that.
They do it because the Window makes the room "look bigger" when the guest checks in.
It is most likely to be done when the other side of the passageway is Open to either the landscape or a view of a large lobby, though.
I've never seen it when the only view was a closed hallway.

So, there was "precedent" for the idea.

JMS just decided later that it didn't look right.

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Do not ascribe your own motivations to others:
At best, it will break your heart.
At worst, it will get you dead."

 

[snakeeyes]

Re: What\'s wrong with \"the Gathering\"?

Question: The Vorlons are formless energy creatures under their protective armour, right!?! SO in The Gathering, how could the doctor perform surgery on him?

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[crazybillyo]

Re: What\'s wrong with \"the Gathering\"?

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR> Question: The Vorlons are formless energy creatures under their protective armour, right!?! SO in The Gathering, how could the doctor perform surgery on him? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

This has been discussed before here and on the newsgroup I believe, and IIRC they are primarily physical beings, having the ability to turn themselves (or parts of themselves) into energy at will. And since Koshy wasn't feeling well at the moment, one could assume that he had his natural, physical state.

I have a headache and am not willing to look up the facts for myself. But I think that's pretty much it, if my memory serves me well, which it often doesn't...

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Sheridan: Are you trying to cheer me up?
Ivanova: No sir, wouldn't dream of it.
Sheridan: Good, I hate being cheered up. It's depressing.
Ivanova: So in that case we're all going to die horrible, painful, lingering deaths.
Sheridan: Thank you, I feel so much better now.

 

[bakana]

Re: What\'s wrong with \"the Gathering\"?

Yes, the Vorlons have a physical body that looks a bit like a Squid with Wings.
They, like the Shadows, tend to stay in their physical forms around the younger races because they prefer to keep the younger races ignorant.
At least until they figure it out for themselves.

Plus, a physical body doesn't light up the security scanners like a Christmas tree, so they can move around undetected in their physical bodies while they "take care of business".



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Do not ascribe your own motivations to others:
At best, it will break your heart.
At worst, it will get you dead."

 

[GaribaldisHair]

Re: What\'s wrong with \"the Gathering\"?

Speaking of "The Gathering" - I finally received my DVD yesterday.

Haven't had a chance yet to sit down and watch through without distractions, but two things immediately struck me

1. How much more B5-ish The Gathering is with Chris Franke's score attached to it, despite the credit for Stewart Copeland on the packaging.

2. How much better the opening draws you in, with the scene showing the Dust dealer being dealt with added and the alien zoo being removed.

Still not vintage B5 by any means, but significantly more impressive than the original version.

Now I can't wait to see ItB in widescreen - if I could just get the kids to bed before 9pm I might manage it !

Just one thing was a real turn-off for me - the ridiculous cardboard package that requires you to almost bend the cover in half just to get at the disk. Not good!

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DaveC
"Let me be the first to say that this is the nuttiest idea you've ever had."

 

[TJGuitar85]

Re: What\'s wrong with \"the Gathering\"?

I liked the version iwth Chris Franke music.

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