Enterprise: "The Forge" (Spoilers)

[vacantlook]

Enterprise: \"The Forge\" (Spoilers)

I'm sure there will probably be quite a few people who disliked tonight's episode, but I'm not such a person. While there were some minor Vulcan characters that had moments of behavior that was somewhat less that what I would have prefered for a Vulcan, I enjoyed the episode.

I enjoyed much of Archer and T'Pol's time in The Forge, especially her comment about Vulcans having evolved on Vulcan when Archer offered her his shades.

I was unaware that most of the Vulcans of the day had such adverse opinions to mindmelding. I certainly feel as if I can identify with the Vulcans that want to do it but are looked down on, judged, etc. by the bulk of the rest of the Vulcan populous.

So, of course the other Vulcans would want to place as much attention on the Ambassador's having done the mindmeld than on what he gained from it; it helps keep attention away from where it should be. It's one thing for it to be inadmissable in court and another for them to ignore it.

Archer getting a bit o' Vulcan in him was expected having seen last week's advertisement for this episode. I have to say, I think I enjoy Archer under the influence of a Vulcan more than his normal self.

I look forward to next week's episode despite the overhype the advertisement had for it.

 

[vacantlook]

Re: Enterprise: \"The Forge\" (Spoilers)

As I mentioned in the Blalock Blasts thread, thinking about which characters I truly liked and want to see more of, I had a mindtwitch.

Was Hoshi in any scenes other than the basketball game at the beginning?

Characters on this show way too often feel underused. I know it's a big cast, but dang. Babylon 5 had a big cast but its characters had presence on the screen. There's not enough for my appetite to be assuaged on Enterprise.

 

[Sindatur]

Re: Enterprise: \"The Forge\" (Spoilers)

I have a feeling the reason the mindmeld "Predjudice" was brought up again in this arc (It had been used a couple times in the first two seasons), is because this is another thing that Manny Coto is cleaning up (Spock's Vulcans never gave any indication that there was a problem with Mind Melding). By the time we get through this arc, it will probably turn out that Mind Melding exposed the conspiracy and it will be accepted (and possibly even honored) from this day forward.

It was a nice start to a new arc. Gary Graham's character has been changing this season (First his appearance in Home, and even more so, on the side of the Humans this week). We have intrigue, political manipulation (probably Government conspiracy), killed off a major recurring character. The show is beginning to get some teeth. It really is too bad that Manny Coto didn't start the series.

Lokinf forward to Part II.

 

[GKarsEye]

Re: Enterprise: \"The Forge\" (Spoilers)

Vulcans and Klingons are my two favorite alien races in sci-fi, so I'm almost guaranteed to like anything that features them.

So does Archer now carry Surok's katra?

I am starting to be less annoyed by T'Pol.

What surprised me was how quickly and strongly the Vulcan ambassador turned rebel. Up 'till now he has been the Vulcan pain in the ass, coming down hard on Archer and humans. And so the death of that admiral changed his mind so much, or was the powder keg in his mind that had been building up so long?

 

[Sindatur]

Re: Enterprise: \"The Forge\" (Spoilers)

I think it's been building, and he's been seeing some stuff going on behind the scenes in the Government.

In the episode Home (The one after the "Reset switch" Nazi 2 part arc), he seemed to be attacking Archer at first, but by the end of the episode, he was being respectful. Plus, it's now come out that he is a closet-case mind melder. And as tough as he's been on T'Pol, I always had an underlying suspiscion that he was being so tough on her for her own good, rather than simply being predjudiced against the Humans. (although that was most likely not B&B's intention)

 

[Recoil]

Re: Enterprise: \"The Forge\" (Spoilers)

My take and notes on this episode, which by the way I think so far is the best of the new season.

First off I believe one of the things Manny Coto has said all along is that he is trying to get back to what "Trek" really is, and make this show what the fans want: A TRUE pre-quel to the TOS/TNG series universe, instead of what it was that being a practically alternate universe, heh.

To that end, MANY fans have objected all along at how the Vulcans in Enterprise aren't "true" to what Vulcans should be and to what they were in TOS and TNG eras. I do believe in this episode arc, Manny Coto is trying to address and resolve that in this story.

While there were some minor Vulcan characters that had moments of behavior that was somewhat less that what I would have prefered for a Vulcan, I enjoyed the episode.

Again, I think that is the point. I think they WANT to show and admit that Vulcans in Enterprise thus far haven't been typical TOS and TNG era Vulcans...close but not quite right...and in this arc is where the change starts to take place in which over the next 150 years they are more along what we have come to expect.

I enjoyed much of Archer and T'Pol's time in The Forge, especially her comment about Vulcans having evolved on Vulcan when Archer offered her his shades.

I've noticed this as well in this season. More quotes and little take-away lines that pay hommage to the original series --- this one back to the TOS Episode OPERATION: ANNIHALATE! where Spock is temporarily blinded, but due to his second eyelids (from being and growing up on Vulcan) his sight was saved. A nice tie-in telling those fans who pay attention that "Yes, this really IS the Star Trek universe, just about 150 years early."

I was unaware that most of the Vulcans of the day had such adverse opinions to mindmelding.

And I think this is one of the key points in this arc to move things along. I believe these "Syranites" are more of the TRUE Vulcans that we have come to know in TOS and TNG era, that THEIR beliefs of Surak are the ones embraced 150 years later. Its almost as if the truth was somewhat hidden over the last 1800 years, but when revealed, their civilization will adapt and welcome the differences in beliefs (regarding mind melds, Katra, and other things Surak embraced but was probably kept from the public knowledge). Reminds me of all the stories of the Church hiding the true belifs of Christ.

All in all, a good story and I cant wait to see this little arc unfold. So far I think Coto will be 2 for 2 in his new season arcs. I did like the last "Augment" story arc and its tie-ins to the Khan and Eugenics war era as well as the obvious tie to the ancestor of Data's creator.

I think this season will outshine all other seasons of Enterprise. So far IMO it is living up to my expectations.

 

[Jade Jaguar]

Re: Enterprise: \"The Forge\" (Spoilers)

This is an interesting ep, with plenty of intrigue, and more to come. With the Vulcan ambassador hinting that the Vulcans are afraid of what progress the humans may make in the next 150 years, and the inability of Vulcans to understand humans,it would be logical that some, perhaps the high command, might want to start a war with the humans now, to remove them as a potential threat in the future. My guess is that some of the high command IS involved, since the guy doing the investigation is the bomber. It may well be that the Syrranites wind up on top, clean up the high command, and develope into the Vulcans of the TOS era. It certainly seems that they are going to ally themselves with Archer, since he has a piece of a Vulcan in him...

 

[colonyearth]

Re: Enterprise: \"The Forge\" (Spoilers)

All in all, this is what I've wanted Ent. to be since it's inception. Finally, a great story that not only tied up loose threads but mentioned moments and elements that created anchors and lines to the Trek universe!

And while I fully credit Coto for taking this series and trying to make it real Trek, not someone's take on Trek (see the Blalock interview and guess who she's talking about), I fully credit Gar and Judy Reeves-Stevens for this ep.

This is the kind of writing they've done with Shatner that've made his novels the best Trek novels out there. Wonderful tie-ins and mentions of lore and traits while filling holes and fixing continuity blunders made by inept producers with delusions of grandeur.

This was probably one of the best Trek scripts and eps in 15 years, and I credit the Reeves-Stevens for the wonderful and bold script, and Coto for allowing them to do what they do best. I hope they wrote every ep in this arc.

For the first time and a very long while, I find myself believing that Trek has a new future and a new hope.

The augment story left me on the fence, I will admit it, because it got a bit over the top at the end and side-stepped the Klingon issue after promising to show us why there was "almost 70 years of unremitting hostility."

Well, the Vulcan arc is proving to be a blow-out, and no one is more happy to see Trek finally showing vision once more than I.

This is the Trek I've wanted for over 15 years now. And they're fixing the Vulcan problem as only Gar and Judy can, with flare and wonder and forethought...all the while making you completely buy the story and explanation and say "cool" in the process.

I cannot rave over this ep. enough. To quote my inspiration: "After a very long draught, [The Forge] is a cool drink of water."

And though Antony will most likely jump me for this, I hope this type of great story marks the death-knell for two out-of-touch producers...those who's names are Berman and Bragga.

CE

 

[B5_Obsessed]

Re: Enterprise: \"The Forge\" (Spoilers)

I haven't seen this one yet, but the quality of the episode is due to the fact that it was written by Judith and Garfield Reeves-Stevens, the Trek masters co-write (or write) William Shatner's Trek novels. Their attention to detail is impeccable and they have always tried to pull the thread of Trek together. They can also craft a hell of a story. I hope to see this on the rerun soon.

Unfortunately, they DID NOT write the remaining to thirds of this particular story arc, so its quality could fall next week.

 

[darth_librarian]

Re: Enterprise: \"The Forge\" (Spoilers)

The Reeves-Stevens rule.
As indeed does the Shat. Is Bill almighty himself due to cameo in this series, or do I have my jefferies tubes crossed?

All this positive buzz (even from CE, arch trek hater himself)
might get me back to watching Enterprise. Might.

 

[colonyearth]

Re: Enterprise: \"The Forge\" (Spoilers)

I am a bit upset to hear that Gar and Judy didn't write the rest of the Vulcan eps. I think that's a very bad decision, but time will tell.

Unfortunately for Trek, I think JB might be right. Starting in January, Sci-Fi has the potential to eat them alive.

Beginning this January, Stargates SG-1 and Atlantis return with all new eps, and Battlestar Galactica begins on that same night, thus giving Sci-Fi the most likely monopoly on Fridays. Sci-Fi is planning for what they're saying will be the biggest night in SF, a ratings bonanza with the overwhelming popularity of both Stargates and considering how well BG is doing in the UK, one more nail in Trek's coffin.

So, no matter what they do, they could well be doomed. I will, of course, still watch it, even if I do record it and watch it later.

BTW, SG: Atlantis has been renewed for a second season and SG-1 has been renewed for a record tieing ninth season, now tieing with X-Files. As stated before, both shows are the top rated SF shows on the air and both are the top rated shows in recent SF history.

Here is the link:

http://www.scifi.com/stargate/press/press_05.html

As for me, my respect for Blalock has risen immensely. And as for her acting...call that the script and the box she was put in. She's appeared on SG-1 twice and was very good in both eps.

Hell, it might be something for her to contact them about a new job...since those shows will be going on and her current one may not.

My continued wish, however, is for Trek to keep delivering eps like The Forge and revive its vision and passion and continuity...it's sense of self...and become what it can be once more.

CE

 

[B5_Obsessed]

Re: Enterprise: \"The Forge\" (Spoilers)

The Reeves-Stevens rule.
As indeed does the Shat. Is Bill almighty himself due to cameo in this series, or do I have my jefferies tubes crossed?

All this positive buzz (even from CE, arch trek hater himself)
might get me back to watching Enterprise. Might.

I was reading about Shatner in USA Today last week.
He said they'd contacted his agent about an appearance on Enterprise. But after he sent over his pay requirements, they haven't called back.

 

[LondosHair]

Re: Enterprise: \"The Forge\" (Spoilers)

I was reading about Shatner in USA Today last week.
He said they'd contacted his agent about an appearance on Enterprise. But after he sent over his pay requirements, they haven't called back.

I like Shatner's way of telling it best (in his own particular dry manner):

"Paramount contacted me to see if I'd be interested in doing a guest spot on Enterprise. They said, 'Bill, we'd love to have you on the show sometime.' I said, 'Great, I'd love to!' My agent contacted them on the contract. They said, 'Bill, we'd LIKE to have you on the show... sometime...'"

 

[B5_Obsessed]

Re: Enterprise: \"The Forge\" (Spoilers)

Hehe, that's good. That particular passage wasn't in the article I read. Even so, I wanted to quote him, but couldn't quite recall how he put it, so I ended up paraphrasing completely.

 

[Stanley]

Re: Enterprise: \"The Forge\" (Spoilers)

Saw this episode last night. Vulcan and its people became real to me in a way they never had before. I loved T'Pol's line, "Vulcan children never forget to feed their pets."

I couldn't get into Next Gen or Voyager or the first seasons of Enterprise (never saw DS9). In season 4, I finally got a show with the feel of the original series. It's too bad Manny Coto wasn't in charge from the start.