The Unfinished Talia Winters Arc!

[Truth_Seeker]

I've been wondering what was JMS's original idea about the story of Talia Winters before Andrea Thompson decided to leave the show.Was it the same as Lyta's story in the following seasons or it was different.In "Mind War", "Deathwalker" and "Soul Mates" we see her becoming more powerful, attracting Kosh's attention and beginning to have doubts about The Psi Corps.Was the plan for her to be altered by the Vorlons just like Lyta or those are two different stories?

[A_M_Swallow]

Talia had been modified by Ironheart so there was no need for the Vorlons to alter here. They may have recruited her.

[KoshFan]

That's why Kosh recorded her personality in "Deathwalker," to use against her if necessary -- or to bring her back if PsiCorps flipped its switch. Kosh presumably could have detected both Ironheart's gift and the second personality.

[Truth_Seeker]

Originally Posted by KoshFan

That's why Kosh recorded her personality in "Deathwalker," to use against her if necessary -- or to bring her back if PsiCorps flipped its switch. Kosh presumably could have detected both Ironheart's gift and the second personality.

I see.I thoght that the second personality was created by JMS later right before Andrea's leaving and Kosh was recording her personality looking because of Ironheart's gift.So the second personality was actually the original idea.Thanks.

[Cell]

Maybe, maybe not. Nothing has been said definitively either way, and personally even if JMS came out and said he always intended for Talia to have a secondary personality I would proclaim him to be full of shit. I think it's fairly obvious that Talia was supposed to fulfill the Lyta role and turn away from the Corps and become the huge weapon that Lyta becomes, but when she asked off the show JMS came up with what he thought was the best way to get her out of there.

[Galahad]

Knowing what a fickle bunch actors can be, JMS had "trap doors" for every character from the get go. Which is good foresight on his part.

[vacantlook]

Originally Posted by Cell

Maybe, maybe not. Nothing has been said definitively either way, and personally even if JMS came out and said he always intended for Talia to have a secondary personality I would proclaim him to be full of shit. I think it's fairly obvious that Talia was supposed to fulfill the Lyta role and turn away from the Corps and become the huge weapon that Lyta becomes, but when she asked off the show JMS came up with what he thought was the best way to get her out of there.

Actually, something has been definitively said.

Easy. Takashima would have been the one to be Control. A Psi
Corps plant. (Her background on Mars would've been the perfect time
for it to have happened.) When Laurel went away, I took that one
thread and passed it along to Talia, setting it up as early as the very
first episode, when Talia and Ivanova first meet, and later reluctantly
have a drink.

At one point, Ivanova says to Talia, referencing Ivanova's
mother, "You're as much of a victim as she was." To which Talia
replies, "I don't feel like a victim." And, of course, that's exactly
what she was, though she didn't know it yet. Ivanova's analysis was
100% correct.

It is obvious that Talia was going to fulfill the Lyta role, but it was going to come from a slightly different direction. Kosh was going to become interested in Lyta because of her having pscanned him, but he was going to become interested in Talia because of Ironheart and the Control personality, which is why he had Abbut make that recording of her in "Deathwalker": so he could fix Talia after the Psi Corps pulled the trigger on her. He would then turn Talia into what Lyta was originally going to be and actually ended up being for him. Can you imagine how much Talia, her real personality restored by Kosh, would want to take out the Psi Corps after having suffered them screwing with her via the Control personality, especially after having gone through seeing them having had screwed with her former lover Ironheart! She'd eagerly go thermal on their asses.

But with Andrea wanting out of her contract and off the show, jms didn't get to play that plot out, which is why that crystal Kosh got from Abbut in "Deathwalker" becomes fruitless for the story as the show stands told.

[Elipsis]

For the future.

Kosh is helping. It was explicitly said by someone that Garibaldi got the crystal from Kosh. I do believe it was in the book somewhere that he never found her, but ya that strongly implies that Kosh knew the score (and why wouldn't he... considering that Vorlons have a Psi rating of GOODBYE).

I thought I picked up that JMS would have still brought in Lyta's character in some role even had Talia stayed... considering that he wanted to use her in the first place for the role, that's not too hard to swallow.

[Alluveal]

I'm just glad that we were never allowed to see the whole "Byron and Ivanova" love story.

So say we all....

[GaribaldisHair]

Originally Posted by Alluveal

I'm just glad that we were never allowed to see the whole "Byron and Ivanova" love story.

So say we all....

Erm, no. Speak for yourself.