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Old March 16th 05, 22:39   #21
GKarsEye
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Re: The Minbari suck

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Is it possible to fuck a Vorlon? They're a bit insubtantial for that.
If evolving means giving up sex, I'd prefer remaing a brutish simian.

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I suspect that Minbari Workers are pretty OK
I suspect that they're a bunch of pricks, but unlike the other two castes, I have no evidence of this.

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you are expecting aliens to conform to human psycology
No, I'm expecting them to practice what they preach.
Life is important, she says. Each one is like a candle, she says, and when the flame goes out there will never be another like it. But oh golly this war that I started is too out of control for me to stop.
(and no, it's not just Delenn, it's all of them, assuming they all believe what she does, which is true since it comes from the same "religion")

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Try to see it from the Minbari view. Their greatest leader had been killed without explanation, when they had only been following their own customs and could never have thought of that action being misinterpreted
They have been a space faring race for millenia. The idea of approaching an unknown war ship with their weapons open never struck them as a bad idea? If this is true, then in addition to my other criticisms, they are also profoundly stupid.
But it's not really true. Dukhat knew it was a bad idea.
The other Minbari in that situation did exactly what you're accusing me of doing- expecting other to think like them. It was not only stupid, but arrogant, and inherent demand for others to somehow understand their customs.

"Going mad" is no excuse. Would the Union have been justified in annihilating the entire ex-Confederacy because a southern actor killed their leader?

I think it was Delenn who pointed out that the Warrior caste relished the war because it was easy. What a bunch of jerks.

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Religion is very important to many people, and is just as valid a reason for our actions as any.
Reasons mean nothing, only the actions themselves.

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If a race is wrong in trying to wipe us out, we are no more right if we respond in kind.
Incorrect. If you try to kill me, you better believe I will kill you to prevent it, because to me, my life is more important than yours. If you don't value your life and those you love as the most important, than you have to seriously re-think your moral values.
Likewise if a terrorist group tries to harm us (ie, we have the righjt to wipe out Al Queda), or if Martian invade, they deserve to die.
But we wouldn't have the right to go to Mars and blow up their planet.


Also I can't decide which looks sillier: the head bones or the Centauri hair-dos.
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Old March 16th 05, 23:11   #22
vacantlook
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Re: The Minbari suck

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The Vorlons' spaceships are MUCH more like giant space squids!
Indeed, according to one of the Jane Killick Babylon 5 guide books, the guy who designed the Vorlon ships made them to be a cross between squid and garlic and got the idea when he was riding past some place in California known for garlicy food.
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Old March 16th 05, 23:19   #23
sleepy_shadow
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Re: The Minbari suck

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If evolving means giving up sex, I'd prefer remaing a brutish simian.
I personally think a species capable of abandoning sex... should be capable of choosing which abilities its keeps or drops. Thus, surely the best features could be kept... while the annoying ones dropped without second thought.

For example: if a simple conversation with someone you like (possibly on the level of thoughts, not even words) could provide all the pleasurable aspects of sex... then who would bother having "real" sex?

I dare to predict: very few people.

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I suspect that they're a bunch of pricks, but unlike the other two castes, I have no evidence of this.
We *do* have evidence that Minbari workers can be quite annoying. Their positive features include lack of respect for uniformed people -- even if conditional upon said people not respecting the effort invested into making silly uniforms.

By the way... do the Minbari have money? They certainly use B5 credits... but how are things on their homeworld? Are they capitalist, socialist... somewhere in between?

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They have been a space faring race for millenia. The idea of approaching an unknown war ship with their weapons open never struck them as a bad idea?
If other ships frequently shoot at you, approaching with guns hot might actually seem like a *good* idea. If you never shoot first, but always shoot *back* quickly.

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Would the Union have been justified in annihilating the entire ex-Confederacy because a southern actor killed their leader?
(I should note that comparing a fictional and real historical conflict... is not proper debate.)

Having noted that: to my undestanding of history, compared with how I interpreted the story of B5... it would seem to me that casualties in the US Civil War... generously exceeded casualties in the Minbari war (and especially its civilian casualties) in every possible fashion.

So, in terms of casualties placed side by side, the Union *did* annihilate the Cofederacy, while the Minbari merely destroyed Human military capability.

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That changes nothing. If evil Canadians tried to destroy New York, I'd glady let loose and anti-Canada virus.
This sounds somewhat silly...

...but if evil Canadians shelled New York with conventional weapons... then would you unleash an anti-Canada virus... knowing that they have a virus prepared for your population, which they will unleash in turn?

Or would you reserve the option of using such a drastic means... stricly for the situation where New York has decisively lost, and evil Canadians seem intent on ethnically cleansing the state?

I emphasize: biological weapons are just as viable *after* organized conflict... as they are during it. If humans had adopted a strategy like Shadows used... they could have retaliated to the Minbari for the loss of Earth... fifty years later, if they really wanted. Should it have happened that Earth would have really been destroyed, even Stephen Franklin might have agreed to share his knowledge for destructive purpose.

But using a biological weapon while hope of negotiations persisted... would have simply destroyed that particular hope (which was realistic, and only failed because of Narn-Centauri hostilities).
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Old March 17th 05, 00:47   #24
2aMageing
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Re: The Minbari suck

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PS- I think it's so cute that this is like a real argument
As soon as I saw Sleepy wade in........ ....I KNEW this was going to be good.

Thanks GKE, for the thread, and the friendly "outraged" sparing. A little quality humor outside Babbleon. It was overdue.

NO ONE rants quite like The Ol Mighty. And NO ONE debates quite like Sleepy.

[Bo or Mac....can't recall which]
"So........how long do ya figure THEY been married???"
[/One or the other]


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Old March 17th 05, 03:24   #25
KoshFan
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Re: The Minbari suck

Oh, they're being humorous? Good. I was intimidated by the length and ran away from their posts. I'd hate to think they're taking this seriously.

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Well then fuck the Vorlons, too. They're also assholes.
Hey!

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what the Minbari war cruisers always looked like to me was angel fish
Every time a Minbari cruiser drifted behind B5 (which was most episodes from Severed Dreams to the end of the Earth Civil War), I always thought to myself, "Big fish."
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Old March 17th 05, 04:13   #26
2aMageing
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Re: The Minbari suck

All that was lacking was the ........BLOOP.............BLOOP..........I wonder if I could record the video and edit in some fish sounds. Hmmmmmmmmm.........
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Old March 17th 05, 05:15   #27
babylon1122
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Re: The Minbari suck

...but if evil Canadians shelled New York with conventional weapons

Your lucky us evil Canadians don't have amunition big enough to even shell New York. If we did the shells would probably be empty or have the flu serum in it.
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Old March 17th 05, 06:34   #28
FreeBaGeL
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Re: The Minbari suck

So why are people trying to argue their case that the Minbari don't suck by listing all their similarities to humans, who are portrayed throughout the series as being corrupt and greedy?

I think the point is that the Minbari seem to be portrayed as BETTER than humans throughout the series, as more of a pure race. Don't lie, don't kill other Minbari, etc.

So listing all their similarities to humans to defend them is really a rather counterproductive arguement...
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Old March 17th 05, 07:13   #29
deaded
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Re: The Minbari suck

Yeah, totally. It's like all my friends who, every time I point out an idiotic George Bush action they pull out Monica Lewinski. Like that excuses anything! Blech! (and not to get even FURTHER off topic but I'm sorry but if I were President I think I could have found someone hotter than THAT to give me a hummer)

But to be fair sleepy does acknowledge the suckiness of the Minbari but also acknowledges than they don't suck any more than anyone else (except maybe Monica). We humans suck pretty hard when we want to. So give 'em a break.
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Old March 17th 05, 12:42   #30
RMcD
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Re: The Minbari suck

Anyone who had the good fortune to play the B5 collectible card game will know that the Minbari do not, in fact, suck, but tend to win about seven times out of ten.
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