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Old March 16th 05, 17:33   #11
GKarsEye
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Re: The Minbari suck

I'm not saying the humans were justified in blowing up Dukhat's ship. That was stupid and pigheaded. This thread isn't about humans. I lambast them all the time in the off-topic forum.

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Despite being gross over-reaction... it doesn't make the Minbari particularly criminal. Merely inflexible and somewhat stupid.
Same difference. Either way they're assholes.

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If the next step Minbari planned... was indeed destroying Earth... now that would have been criminal. But planning a crime, only to refrain from committing it... is not the same as committing a crime.
It is my opinion that the reason behind these actions makes them assholes.

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Space is infinite, and gives excellent protection against pursuit. If war in space looks like a definite loss... the losing side should be smart enough to gather their stuff... and scatter. At full speed. In every imaginable direction.
Right... so let them destroy earth...
I'm sure glad you're not an important military position.


Other reasons to hate Minbari:
- In Parliament of Dreams, compare the rituals displayed by the Minbari to that of the Centauri. Who would you rather party with?
"I stand between the candle and.." zzzzzzzzzz

- They have a religion without a god. What the fuck?

- They dress awful. I mean, what the hell is with Delenn and those MC Hammer pants in season 1? And why did she have lipstick and the others didn't?

- The chicks look kinda like the dudes. That is just all kinds of messed up.

- Their spaceships look like giant space squids, like a caricature of an HP Lovecraft creature.

- "A ritual for saying hello, and ritual for saying goodbye, etc" to paraphrase Delenn. Jesus Christ, they make the Passover Sedar seem thrilling.

- They have a disturbing tendency to succumb to cults of personality, be it Dukhat or "the One." "We live for the one, we die for the one." I've always hated that. Living and dying for a good cause, yes, that can be honorable, but for a person? That's crazy.
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Old March 16th 05, 18:23   #12
Demon
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Re: The Minbari suck

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- Their spaceships look like giant space squids, like a caricature of an HP Lovecraft creature.

Now this I must take issue with. The Vorlons' spaceships are MUCH more like giant space squids!
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Old March 16th 05, 18:34   #13
Sindatur
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Re: The Minbari suck

Yea, The Minbari cruisers are more like Dolphins swimming upside down.
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Old March 16th 05, 18:52   #14
sleepy_shadow
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Re: The Minbari suck

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Either way they're assholes.
Unfortunately, they are not alone in said condition.

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It is my opinion that the reason behind these actions makes them assholes.
People with an overbloated sense of honor... are not liable to disclose the *real* reasons behind their choices. Do you really think the Council believed in Humans having Minbari souls? I don't think so.

What they did believe... was probably that, should they fail stopping the campaign they had started with some reason, yet permitted to run amok beyond all sensible limits...

...they would lose most existing allies. That in turn, should notable strife occur (for example, should the tales about Shadows prove true)... could prove really bad for the interests of Minbari civilization.

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Right... so let them destroy earth...
I'm sure glad you're not an important military position.
Dearest GKarsEye, please examine my statement with some patience. I *never* claimed that principles reasonable in infinite three-dimensional space...

...should be reasonable when you exist on a two-dimensional surface -- where every square meter gives certain resources, either to you or another, or if burnt, then to nobody.

Our civilization is currently planet-bound, so naturally we have different ways. In current-day human conflicts, controlling surface matters. In space, different rules can be expected to apply.

I can only concur on the point... that I am fortunate to have completely avoided military positions of any kind (except strictly civilian lectures on defense studies, which I took of curiosity). People who dislike hierarchy... are not terribly compatible with today's military structures. I can honestly promise I will forever avoid becoming part of one.

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- They have a religion without a god. What the fuck?
Clear indication of striving to improve. Would you prefer them taking a step backwards, and adding a god or two?


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- They dress awful.
Don't expect bikinis. They come from a planet where "freezing" is the standard weather.

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I mean, what the hell is with Delenn and those MC Hammer pants in season 1?
You can have big pockets in puffy pants. Great for carrying along snacks, beverages, PDAs, CD players and Swiss knives. In case the conference turns boring. Upon hull breach, most diplomats would simply choke, but a Minbari representative in traditional clothing... can be expected to simply dig in pockets, and find a spare breather.

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- Their spaceships look like giant space squids,
Vorlon ships look like squids. Minbari ships look like fish. They even have fins.

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- They have a disturbing tendency to succumb to cults of personality, be it Dukhat or "the One."
They do. Hopefully the ISA will arrange them counselling, and the problem will be defeated.
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Old March 16th 05, 19:14   #15
Demon
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Re: The Minbari suck

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I mean, what the hell is with Delenn and those MC Hammer pants in season 1?
You can have big pockets in puffy pants. Great for carrying along snacks, beverages, PDAs, CD players and Swiss knives. In case the conference turns boring. Upon hull breach, most diplomats would simply choke, but a Minbari representative in traditional clothing... can be expected to simply dig in pockets, and find a spare breather.
Which will give them a HUGE advantage if they ever have another war with humanity, after Kevin the designer has removed all pockets from the Earthforce uniforms!
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Old March 16th 05, 19:18   #16
PillowRock
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Re: The Minbari suck

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Yea, The Minbari cruisers are more like Dolphins swimming upside down.
I agree that is was the Vorlon ships that look like squid.

However, what the Minbari war cruisers always looked like to me was angel fish (the fresh water kind that are fairly common in home aquariums). In fact, I thought they were such dead ringers for angel fish that it never occurred to me that someone might use a different point of comparison.
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Old March 16th 05, 19:31   #17
GKarsEye
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Re: The Minbari suck

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The Vorlons' spaceships are MUCH more like giant space squids!
Well then fuck the Vorlons, too. They're also assholes. That's probably why the Minbari are jerks- they worship even bigger jerks.

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Do you really think the Council believed in Humans having Minbari souls? I don't think so.
I think the religious ones believed something was up, and the rest were startled enough by the triluminary to at least wait and see what happens with it.

[quoteWhat they did believe... was probably that, should they fail stopping the campaign they had started with some reason, yet permitted to run amok beyond all sensible limits...

...they would lose most existing allies. That in turn, should notable strife occur (for example, should the tales about Shadows prove true)... could prove really bad for the interests of Minbari civilization.

[/quote]

You're reaching here. The Minbari were on a Crusade- they were not thinking about allies and politics. Allies for what, the coming Shadow War? They didn't even believe in it.

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Our civilization is currently planet-bound, so naturally we have different ways. In current-day human conflicts, controlling surface matters. In space, different rules can be expected to apply.
That changes nothing. If evil Canadians tried to destroy New York, I'd glady let loose and anti-Canada virus.

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hey have a religion without a god. What the fuck?



Clear indication of striving to improve. Would you prefer them taking a step backwards, and adding a god or two?
Why not just go all the way and not have a religion at all? You can have a philosophy without religion, like the Confucionists.

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They come from a planet where "freezing" is the standard weather.
I hate the cold. Another reason the Minbari suck.


No space ships should look like fish! Narn cruisers look pretty bad-ass. But then they seem break a lot.
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Old March 16th 05, 20:04   #18
Demon
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Re: The Minbari suck

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The Vorlons' spaceships are MUCH more like giant space squids!
Well then fuck the Vorlons, too. They're also assholes. That's probably why the Minbari are jerks- they worship even bigger jerks.
Is it possible to fuck a Vorlon? They're a bit insubtantial for that. Even their assholes

And while I agree that Minbari Warriors are definitely jerks with seriously bad attitudes, and Minbari Religious sect are a little too holier than thou for my personal tastes, I suspect that Minbari Workers are pretty OK, but they ought to assert themselves more often, and tell the other two castes to take a hike

Have you ever thought what the Minbari/Earth conflict would have been like if the Warrior caste had decided not to play? Every time the Religious sect broke for lunch, they'd have got their asses kicked. They take WAY too long preparing their food, and setting portions aside for imaginary guests
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Old March 16th 05, 20:20   #19
wolfranger
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Re: The Minbari suck

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Have you ever thought what the Minbari/Earth conflict would have been like if the Warrior caste had decided not to play? Every time the Religious sect broke for lunch, they'd have got their asses kicked. They take WAY too long preparing their food, and setting portions aside for imaginary guests
Can you imagine if the Warrior class fought like the Religious Class ate. Fire Weapons, Now we meditate and pray that the shot hits our enemies before we take another shot.
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Old March 16th 05, 20:24   #20
B5obsessive
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Re: The Minbari suck

In my opinion, GKE, you are expecting aliens to conform to human psycology. This is unreasonable. Try to see it from the Minbari view. Their greatest leader had been killed without explanation, when they had only been following their own customs and could never have thought of that action being misinterpreted They went mad with grief, lost their collective senses and hit back in a rage. I also don't like the disdain inherent in your "obscure religious concept" comment. Religion is very important to many people, and is just as valid a reason for our actions as any. I also do not agree with your idea that Stephen was wrong in destroying his notes. If a race is wrong in trying to wipe us out, we are no more right if we respond in kind. Also, remember that we are shown in "Atonement" that Delenn is haunted by her part in the carnage of the war, and I get the feeling that a large part of the religious caste at least are disgusted by what they almost did in a fit of race insanity.
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