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Old May 31st 08, 04:01   #11
KoshFan
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Re: Just watched B5: In the Beginning (Spoilers)

It's also possible (although admittedly unlikely) that Sinclair didn't even know Kosh was dead. They were keeping it quiet, remember?

I forget the chronology of ItB. Is there really a two-year gap between Sheridan's close encounter with Delenn and the Battle of the Line?

Actually the whole Minbari War chronology bothered me a bit... considering how fast the Minbari go through our ships, how in space did we hold them off for years?
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Old May 31st 08, 04:28   #12
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Re: Just watched B5: In the Beginning (Spoilers)

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I forget the chronology of ItB. Is there really a two-year gap between Sheridan's close encounter with Delenn and the Battle of the Line?
If I remember correctly, Londo says in his narration during the war montage that "they did this for two years".

EDIT: I just pulled up the quote off of the Downbelow Sound Archive. Londo says,

"The Humans, I think, knew they were doomed. But where another race would surrender to despair, the Humans fought back with even greater strength. They made the Minbari for every inch of space. In my life, I have never seen anything like it. They would weep. They would pray. They would say good bye to their love ones and then throw themselves without fear or hesitation at the very face of death itself. Never surrendering. No one who saw them fighting against the inevitable, could help but be moved to tears by their courage, their stubborn nobility. When they ran out of ships, they used guns. When they ran out of guns, they used knives and sticks and bare hands. They were magnificent! I only hope, when it is my time, that I may die with half as much dignity as I saw in their eyes at the end. They did this for two years. They never ran out of courage. But in the end, they ran out of time."

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Old May 31st 08, 14:34   #13
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Re: Just watched B5: In the Beginning (Spoilers)

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Well, why would Valen have told them about that little incident?
I rather think that the Minbari would have reported their findings concerning Valen's soul to Kosh and Ulkesh. And even if Kosh knew what was coming and chose not to interfere, Ulkesh certainly didn't, and he would have been highly likely to report the finding of Valen's soul. Otherwise, the Vorlons would certainly want to find out why the Minbari stopped the war - and remembering the cooperation between Minbari, Valen and Vorlons in the last shadow war, the Minbari would / should have told them.
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Old May 31st 08, 15:35   #14
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Re: Just watched B5: In the Beginning (Spoilers)

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Originally Posted by vacantlook View Post
If I remember correctly, Londo says in his narration during the war montage that "they did this for two years".

EDIT: I just pulled up the quote off of the Downbelow Sound Archive. Londo says,

"The Humans, I think, knew they were doomed. But where another race would surrender to despair, the Humans fought back with even greater strength. They made the Minbari for every inch of space. In my life, I have never seen anything like it. They would weep. They would pray. They would say good bye to their love ones and then throw themselves without fear or hesitation at the very face of death itself. Never surrendering. No one who saw them fighting against the inevitable, could help but be moved to tears by their courage, their stubborn nobility. When they ran out of ships, they used guns. When they ran out of guns, they used knives and sticks and bare hands. They were magnificent! I only hope, when it is my time, that I may die with half as much dignity as I saw in their eyes at the end. They did this for two years. They never ran out of courage. But in the end, they ran out of time."

I know this is lame, but as an avid boxing enthusiast, I can appreciate how much pure will power and grit can determine the outcome of a fight. The battle of Thermopylae (sp?) is a famous example of a desperately outnumbered force holding off a numerically and technologically superior horde beyond the limits of imagination.

This fits nicely with how the Minbari fear and hate humans after the war. Even though it was an "easy" sorta-win, they see humans as extremely dangerous and destructive. They genuinely fear them.
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Old May 31st 08, 15:36   #15
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Re: Just watched B5: In the Beginning (Spoilers)

Yeah, but remember "the Gathering"? When Kosh first lays eyes on Sinclair (faux Sinclair, but still), that's when he finally makes the connection to Valen. It's supposed to be surprising.

Although come to think of it, you'd think a telepath like Kosh would have known the difference.
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Old June 1st 08, 22:03   #16
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Re: Just watched B5: In the Beginning (Spoilers)

You'd think that the Minbari would have consulted the Vorlons when they found out about Sinclair's soul at the Battle of the Line. That's my problem with them being there. One of them even says "Truth points to itself", which is ominous, as we expect from our Vorlons, but suggests that they know what will happen when Delenn chooses.
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Old June 2nd 08, 14:01   #17
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Re: Just watched B5: In the Beginning (Spoilers)

Hmmm... but only Delenn knew the Vorlons were aboard. Would that have made a difference?
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Old June 3rd 08, 18:40   #18
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Re: Just watched B5: In the Beginning (Spoilers)

They (the vorlons) did know what was coming... the difference is, that Ulkesh lacking in compassion as he was, was content to leave events to unfold without caring for the lives lost. If they were worthy they would find a way... but Kosh had faith in the two races and saw the necessity of stopping them killing each other because he cared for them... that's why he dropped the hint... and that's why Ulkesh floicks him a nasty glance after he does it.
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Old June 4th 08, 19:26   #19
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Re: Just watched B5: In the Beginning (Spoilers)

Yeah and that's why Kosh sent the trigger Entilzah Valen to Sinclair in the Gathering to activate his programming, that that he would then do what was needed to become Valen.
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Old June 5th 08, 04:28   #20
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Re: Just watched B5: In the Beginning (Spoilers)

Whoa, whoa, whoa. That was no trigger.

According to JMS on the Lurker's Guide:
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Why would Kosh tell Sinclair he was Valen?
Internal dialogue...what he was thinking, his reaction.
That "Entil'zha Valen" never left Kosh's mind.
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