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Silly question time!

superbob

Regular
if the first ones moved beyond the rim and the Shadows and Vorlons were the last to leave. Does that make us the second ones.
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"I am Grey. I stand between the candle and the star. We are Grey. We stand between the darkness and the light. I come to take the place that has been prepared for me"
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the present becomes the past, the past becomes history, history becomes legend, legend becomes myth, myth becomes obscurity! please pass the flarn!
 
No. Technically, the Vorlons and Shadows generation were the 'Second Ones' since Lorien and his race were there first.
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"Part of the inhumanity of the computer is that, once it is competently programmed and working smoothly, it is completely honest" - Isaac Asimov
--
yan@ranger.b5lr.com
 
Then we could run around cheering:

"We're no. 3! We're no. 3!"

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Dulann: You don't solve your problems by hitting them.
David Martel: Yeah, well, it made me feel better.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR> No. Technically, the Vorlons and Shadows generation were the 'Second Ones' since Lorien and his race were there first. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

But, what about the Walkers of Sigma 957 and the other obscure aliens who helped out at Corianna 6? I think they were all considered First Ones, all the way from Lorien's folk down to the youngest of the Corianna helpers.

I'm thinking that Minbari, Humans, Drakh, Technomages, and maybe a few others are (or will be) the Second Ones. We know the Centauri and Narn races are going nowhere fast, so the hope of Third Ones probably rest with the Drazi, Brakiri, Vree, Pak'ma'ra, etc., but they have a *long* way to go.

Speaking of the Corianna helpers, what were they up to? The explanation was that all the First Ones went beyond the Rim except for Vorlons and Shadows who stayed behind to guide the younger races...and yet, there were also these other stragglers. The graphics from Into the Fire also imply that there may have only been one ship left per straggler First One race (or else only one ship per race was provided for the battle). Why were these small numbers of stragglers staying behind, and what were they doing?

I almost wonder if they were rebellious factions that refused to go beyond the Rim long ago but also didn't want to participate in the Vorlon/Shadow sillyness. But that still begs the question of what they were up to that whole time? If the Vorlons & Shadows were playing chess with the younger races, were the other First Ones off playing checkers with each other?

Also, if some rebelled and stayed behind the first time, there are probably some that still stayed behind this time too (some may even think they can slip into a control vaccuum left by the Vorlons & Shadows).

Lastly, wouldn't it be naive of us to think that every single First One everywhere went beyond the Rim in a flash at Corianna? Even if every single one either did go or intends to go, there are probably a few still in the process of leaving, having things to take care of on their way out.

Those slippery First Ones; nothing but questions come out of those guys.
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An Old Egyptian Blessing: May God stand between you and harm in all the empty places that you must walk.

Thoughts & prayers to soldiers fighting overseas and to their families.
 
Frankly, I'd rather run around saying I'm a #3 than saying I'm a #2
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Garibaldi: "Someone's trying to frame me for the explosion in the Cobra bay. They planted a schematic of the bay and a pouch of Centauri ducats in my quarters."
Londo: "Cen-tar-ri?"
Garibaldi: "Cen-tau-ri."
Londo: "Po-tay-to?"
Garibaldi: "Po-tah-to."
Londo: "To-may-to?"
Garibaldi: "To-mah-to."
Londo: "(and Garibaldi) Let's call the whole thing off!" Downbelow Sound Archive
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR> "Yes, of course I care.
It's a terrible thing when your children fight.
I warned the others, but they didn't listen. They never listen."

Lorien to Sheridan in Babylon 5:"Whatever Happened to Mr. Garibaldi?" <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

From the above, we see that Lorien considered the Vorlons and & Shadows to be Children.
When Lorien spoke to them during "Into the Fire", he said "As we taught you and Stepped aside, so you must now step aside for them".

This pretty conclusively indicates that the Vorlons and Shadows were the "Second Ones".
Humans, Minbari, etc. referred to them as First Ones because we didn't Know that Lorien existed.

From our point of view, even the Vorlons were more Myth and Legend than reality.
Until Kosh revealed himself to Sheridan, they had been presenting themselves as just another contemporary race, although one that defended its territory so well that No One ever came back.

So, yes, it Would be proper to consider the current race Third Ones.

The Walkers at Sigma 957 and the other races that Lorien helped Ivanova to find were just killing time.
The Walkers apparently had an exploration project they were busy with.
Kosh told Delenn that some of the Others were Sleeping.
A nice little million year Nap.

The problem with Immortality is that it is Boring after the first two or three million years.
What All the First (and Second) Ones appeared to be doing was looking for ways to keep themselves Occupied.


<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR> "To live on as we have is to leave behind joy, and love, and companionship, because we know it to be transitory, of the
moment.
We know it will turn to ash.
Only those, whose lives are brief can imagine that love .. is eternal...
You should embrace that remarkable illusion.
It may be the greatest gift your race has ever received."

Lorien to Ivanova in Babylon 5:"Into the Fire"

"Will you come with us?"
"I have been here since the beginning. I will not leave you now.
I will go with you beyond the rim and we will see again all those who went ahead of us.
All those who we have missed for so long."

Shadows and Lorien in Babylon 5:"Into the Fire"

"Then we will not be alone?"
"No, never alone."

Vorlons and Lorien in Babylon 5:"Into the Fire"<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The above indicate the True motivations of both the Vorlons & Shadows.
They are doing their best to help the younger races Evolve so that they will have New People to keep them company.
Because they are bored.
They've argued with each other until they've run out of things to say.


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Do not ascribe your own motivations to others:
At best, it will break your heart.
At worst, it will get you dead."
 
I think it would be best to be 7th. Yep, 7th it is.

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"I personally think we developed language because of our deep need to complain."
-Lily Tomlin
 
To put it simply, they have chosen the wrong way.

The Shadows and Vorlons have stayed when they should have left, turned inside when they should have looked outside. They have forgotten how to keep their dreams, interests and feelings alive, and how to rediscover them. They have forgotten how to explore. The Shadows work for change, but they have forgotten how to change and doubt themselves.

Perhaps even Lorien, during his long stay, has forgotten these basic things. He might have unknowingly lied to Ivanova. Those who have left beyond the Rim to explore new worlds... they might disagree. The Shadows who wrote the words Galen found on Z'ha'dum may have known differenly... and forgotten.

Because only in change can anything last. The universe is pretty large. There are always new wonders to discover, new puzzles to solve. When you outgrow your sandbox, it is wise to look beyond its borders. Only in change and growth can you avoid feelings turning to ash.

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"We are the universe, trying to figure itself out.
Unfortunately we as software lack any coherent documentation."
-- Delenn

[This message has been edited by Lennier (edited February 09, 2002).]
 
Maybe, just maybe the Vorlons and Shadows were stagnatinging, almost regressinging. By staying behind they were influenced by the raw energy of the younger races, losing their own refined developement. Perhaps the war was essential for them to move on. Thats why I'm more inclined to agree that we are in actual fact number 3 as opposed to a "number 2".
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"I am Grey. I stand between the candle and the star. We are Grey. We stand between the darkness and the light. I come to take the place that has been prepared for me"
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the present becomes the past, the past becomes history, history becomes legend, legend becomes myth, myth becomes obscurity! please pass the flarn!
 
immortality... it's another one of those things.

i would think it gets boring after the first million years, even if you had someone to spend it with. i mean, i get bored sometimes and i don't really expect to live past 100. (i dunno...should i? being a 100 seems an awfully long ways from now)

an interesting question is how long true love lasts- is it mortal like Lorien says?

would sheridan and delenn's relationship be as powerful if they each should have lived to be 100million but sheridan was only destined to like to 60million because of his trip to z'ha'dum?
 

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