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Old August 9th 07, 16:42   #41
Chilli
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Re: The Illusion of Truth - Worst Episode?

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I'm afraid that the point of the episode is that it CAN happen in a democratic society or any society and that unless the population is aware and on guard, that it will.

Jan
Well .. that a democratic society can turn into a society that would allow stuff like that. That point was brought over in mid-season 3 already, though.
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Old August 9th 07, 16:53   #42
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Re: The Illusion of Truth - Worst Episode?

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I'm afraid that the point of the episode is that it CAN happen in a democratic society or any society and that unless the population is aware and on guard, that it will.

Jan
Well not really... see in B5 the government became fascist first.

If some tv station did a hatchet job that bad in the U.S., there'd by competing tv stations, web sites, articles, etc ready to rip it apart. So, yeah, an IoT type propoganda piece can be produced- and in fact it is protected under free speech- but it can also be challenged successfully.

In a totalitarian society, it can't. We saw artists and activists get persecuted under Clark in the show.

I think one of the reasons I love B5 so much is that, while other shows address this stuff, it never has the passion and honesty about it the way B5 did. Nightwatch, Clark- all the stuff actually feels somehow "real."
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Old August 9th 07, 17:02   #43
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Re: The Illusion of Truth - Worst Episode?

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I can't see that kind of propaganda going through in a country like the US at all. Where you do, actually, have freedom of press, no matter how much some American publications can be full of crap. If you were to publish this kind of complete fabricated rubbish in the US, everyone would be free to check your story, and debunk it within days. I don't for a second believe that Illusion of Truth was aimed at propaganda as encountered in democratic societies. It's propaganda in countries where the powers controll all media, such as Nazi Germany or the Soviet Union.
Well, what you say is legally true, Chilli. But with someone like Hearst, which GKE mentioned, he didn't rule people with law, he ruled people by fear.

Maybe people and papers could debunk him, but if they are so afraid of the consequences they don't choose to, then you've managed to limit freedom of speech without actually breaking the law.

What has to happen in cases like Hearst and McCarthy is to get enough people mad that everyone does begin to openly question their word. Then usually these amazing abuses of power and popularity kind of fix themselves. Then the truth can finally come out and people aren't as afraid.
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Old August 9th 07, 18:47   #44
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Re: The Illusion of Truth - Worst Episode?

G'kar if you want to have a go try not to be so pathetic about it.

Wow I was out by four months,the principal is still the same.Like it or not the American media has a long history of perverting the facts.In fact Hypatia posted a story the other day where some numbnut claims the British were defeated in Basra

OK they went a little further than would be allowed by American Law but not a lot further.

Murdoch must of seen this episode and thought that's how to do it
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Old August 9th 07, 19:45   #45
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Re: The Illusion of Truth - Worst Episode?

I believe it was an article on what was happening there as the British troops withdrew, wasn't it?

I don't recall anyone saying "they were defeated" there. No, they are withdrawing and you can guess what is following now.
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Old August 9th 07, 19:57   #46
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Re: The Illusion of Truth - Worst Episode?

You guessed right,the quote

"The British have basically been defeated in the south," a senior U.S. intelligence official said recently in Baghdad".

Although basicly you could say they are not really saying that

Just goes to show how well it works
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Extract from the Declaration of Arbroath, 1320.

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Old August 9th 07, 21:07   #47
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Re: The Illusion of Truth - Worst Episode?

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You guessed right,the quote

"The British have basically been defeated in the south," a senior U.S. intelligence official said recently in Baghdad".

Although basicly you could say they are not really saying that

Just goes to show how well it works
Ah, a senior US intelligence officer said it.

That explains it.
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Old August 9th 07, 22:27   #48
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Re: The Illusion of Truth - Worst Episode?

Exactly

I just rewatched this episode and looked for the obvious lies and found none.

I loved how easy they perverted the truth and the spin that came in.
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Extract from the Declaration of Arbroath, 1320.

"me and other folk were just tryin tae get the boot in and some other guy banjoed him"

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Old August 9th 07, 23:46   #49
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Re: The Illusion of Truth - Worst Episode?

I do, too. But I'm a fan of many boardmembers least favorite episodes.

Just how bad they made it look impressed me. Yea, of course we all knew they'd get screwed in the end, but it was a big surprise to me that they would try for such a BIG lie.

But, in a atmosphere of fear, people learn it's not healthy to question what the government is handing them. And then we are left to think of how this was just so perfectly planned as to plant lies of crimes so big, even hesitant commanders would conclude B5 is out of control, and fight to take it over.

Seeing hate-talk is what I expected; what I got was a truly sick and carefully thought out so that it would minimize any sympathy people might have had for B5 and crew, I admit I thought it was a good episode.

To each their own, you know.
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Old August 10th 07, 09:13   #50
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Re: The Illusion of Truth - Worst Episode?

Well, as Marcus would have said, if you are going to tell a lie to the people you might as well go for a really satisfying one.

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