• The new B5TV.COM is here. We've replaced our 16 year old software with flashy new XenForo install. Registration is open again. Password resets will work again. More info here.

crusade viewing order and unaired episodes...

L

lightsyder

Member
ok, first of all, what is the definitive viewing order for crusade? i've seen a couple of differnt orderings online and i was just wondering what JMS has verified on it.

second, what all do we know about the placement of the unproduced episodes? I know The End of the Line is the season finale but what about Value Judgements and To the Ends of the Earth?

and can anyone confirm these rumored scripts that were never released?

an Apocalypse Box episode,
Tried and True (Fiona Avery),
Sword Arc (three episodes)
and another unnamed episodes to round out the standard 22 episode season.

i found this info from various web sites. actually alot of its probably from here...
 
From Lurker's Guide, first Scifi Channel airing

"Crusade" will air Monday-Thursday after B5. The episode order is different than in the original TNT broadcast; JMS feels that this order is best from a story point of view, even though it means some visual inconsistencies in terms of unexplained costume changes.

Air Date Ep# Prod# Title
01/04/09 9 103 Racing the Night
01/04/10 11 101 The Needs of Earth
01/04/11 10 102 The Memory of War
01/04/12 2 107 The Long Road
01/04/16 12 104 Visitors from Down the Street
01/04/17 3 106 The Well of Forever
01/04/18 13 105 Each Night I Dream of Home
01/04/19 5 110 Patterns of the Soul
01/04/23 4 109 The Path of Sorrows
01/04/24 6 111 Ruling from the Tomb
01/04/25 7 112 The Rules of the Game
01/04/26 1 108 War Zone
01/04/30 8 113 Appearances and Other Deceits

http://www.midwinter.com/lurk/eplist.html#spinoff
 
ok, first of all, what is the definitive viewing order for crusade? i've seen a couple of differnt orderings online and i was just wondering what JMS has verified on it.
Click to expand...

I already put in my two credits here:

Topic: Crusade Order Question

second, what all do we know about the placement of the unproduced episodes? I know "The End of the Line" is the season finale but what about Value Judgements and To the Ends of the Earth?
Click to expand...

"Value Judgements" could go anywhere in a black uniform group. "To the Ends of the Earth" would go at about mid-season, or a bit later, after "Appearances and Other Deceits" and the grey/red uniform bunch.
 
I think JMS preferred order is good, but I would still have War Zone as the first ep since it just doesn't make sense anywhere else.
 
HEHE, that's why he stuck it near the end, if he'd had 100 episodes, it would be near 100. I've actually read that he doesn't like the episode at all (TNT forced him to write it because they were satisfied with the introduction of the series with A Call to Arms and his pilot). It seems if he had his way, all copies of War Zone would simply cease to exist.
 
ok, first of all, what is the definitive viewing order for crusade?
Click to expand...

There is none. :) Any order is going to be a compromise. The nature of the existing episodes, given the line dubbing to make TNT's order "make sense" and the planned reshoots to better integrate the "first five" and the rest of the episodes that never happened, it has to be understood that the hunting for the "perfect order" is a waste of time. The episodes as they are make it impossible to come up with an order that is 100% consistent in terms of story, character and realtionship development, costumes and internal chronology.

There will always be trade-offs, and you simply have to pick the compromise that bugs you the least. Since "War Zone" doesn't exist as far as I'm concerned I am perfectly happy to have it included as a piece of "deleted footage" among the extras on the last disc instead of trying to shoe-horn it in among the episodes JMS actually wanted to do. So his order works fine for me. If chronology is very important to you and it just bugs you to watch things out of order, you'll want to put "War Zone" first. Different strokes and all that.

But a "definitive" order? Not gonna happen, my friend. :D

Regards,

Joe
 
HEHE, that's why he stuck it near the end, if he'd had 100 episodes, it would be near 100. I've actually read that he doesn't like the episode at all
Click to expand...

He's said::
6/13/1999 9:38:00 AM
"Still, I'm proud of what we did with "War Zone," because it was a little like someone handing you an inner tube and a tree branch and telling you to make a radio telescope out of it. It ain't pretty, but it does the job we had put in front of us.""


8/12/1999 11:17:00 PM
"What I said was that "War Zone" was the only one written at TNT's behest, not that they didn't have input into the rest of them. It was only with "Appearances" that I finally hit the wall and simply stopped taking their notes."

"I think that there's more positive than negative in all the episodes aired, and I'm proud of what we did under the conditions under which we had to labor; but understand that their fingerprints are on all of the first 8 to various degrees. I separated War Zone from the rest because structurally, that's a story I would never have told if there wasn't a gun to my head."

"The only episodes totally free of interference are the first 5 shot."



Production Order:
101 The Needs of Earth
102 The Memory of War
103 Racing the Night
104 Visitors from Down the Street
105 Each Night I Dream of Home

The first production shutdown.

106 The Well of Forever
107 The Long Road
108 War Zone
109 The Path of Sorrows
110 Patterns of the Soul
111 Ruling from the Tomb
112 The Rules of the Game
113 Appearances and Other Deceits




(TNT forced him to write it because they were satisfied with the introduction of the series with A Call to Arms and his pilot).
Click to expand...

TNT forced him to write an introductory episode ("War Zone") because they were not going to air "A Call to Arms" right before Crusade. "A Call to Arms" first aired in January 3, 1999. Crusade started June 9, 1999. Anyway, TNT at first was not going to show "A Call to Arms" right before Crusade's "Racing the Night" and so the intro. episode "War Zone" was made, then they decided to air "A Call to Arms" after "War Zone" ...which is just plain nuts. :rolleyes:
6/10/1999 2:54:00 PM
 
yeah, it does have some weird ordering of the episodes. it's biggest plus is the info on the unproduced episodes. anybody have any idea how accurate it is?
 
It is OK on the unfilmed scripts that appeared on Bookface.com, except for mistakes like this one: Jerry Doyle guest stars as Mr. Garibaldi. The script makes it clear that Doyle would not have guest starred as Garibaldi. The stage directions indicate that we only see the character's hands and a telephone, and we never hear Garibaldi's side of a conversation with one of his agents. Obviously a way of having the character involved in the story without have to use the actor for a couple of hours to get 30 seconds of film in the can. A similar technique was used in the original "Lyta" draft of "Value Judgments" to etablish Lennier's presence on Mars in a brief flashback without using Bill Mumy - an anonymous Minbari is seen from the back for a few seconds before Lyta calls out, "Lennier!"

Regards,

Joe

Edited to remove typo and head-off any more wrestling jokes - J.D.
 
"the Lyta"?
.
You make her sound like a pro wrestler. :p
Click to expand...

I started to type, "the leader of the telepath underground". I've been told her name is never used in the script (or at least in the dialogue) and have never read the full script myself. (I just had a chance to flip through a copy briefly to verify the "Lennier" dialogue.) Then I thought, "That'll be too confusing", and went back to change it to just "Lyta" Evidently I didn't go back far enough. :)

I dunno, though. "The Lyta" does sound kinda cool. Like "The One" or "The Hulk". :)

Regards,

Joe
 
Joe,

You're right, Lyta is never referred to by name in dialogue even in the early draft of the script. She was named in the scene descriptions and cast list, though.

Jan
 
A similar technique was used in the original "Lyta" draft of "Value Judgments" to etablish Lennier's presence on Mars in a brief flashback without using Bill Mumy - an anonymous Minbari is seen from the back for a few seconds before Lyta calls out, "Lennier!"
Click to expand...

the original "Lyta" draft of "The Path of Sorrows".


Sorry to be so nit-picky.
 
Thanks Koshn, I thought it sounded like the episode that had been aired, but, couldn't recall the name. And since I'm not familiar with the unfilmed ones, I figured I'd keep my mouth shut for a change.
 
Joe,

You're right, Lyta is never referred to by name in dialogue even in the early draft of the script. She was named in the scene descriptions and cast list, though.

Jan
Click to expand...

What??? :confused:

#109 "PATH" BLUE REVISIONS 10/12/98 (FULL)

Cast:
Lyta Alexander .... TBA. She's right between Bruder and Isabelle, who are also listed as TBA.

Page 25 - Lyta Alexander is mentioned, by name. "It's LYTA ALEXANDER."

Lyta then has lines on pages 26, 27, 29, 30 and 31.
 
What??? :confused:
Click to expand...

Well, one obvious explanation is that you and she have different script drafts. Another is that Jan missed the single line of dialogue which is the only difference between your desciption of the script and hers. ;) Jan says that Lyta is included in the cast list but not named in the dialogue - which means the only difference between what she said and what you're saying is the one line, "It's LYTA ALEXANDER!" Jan never says that Lyta doesn't have lines, that the lines don't have "LYTA" above them to indicate the speaker or that Lyta is not referrred to by name in scene descriptions, only that Lyta's name isn't used in the dialogue.

I suspect that Jan owns and I've seen an earlier script revision than the one you have, since I remember being told that Lyta's name was never spoken by any of the other characters and Jan has now confirmed it. Since that makes two different sources asserting that same bit of trivia (the person who let me persue the script and Jan) I can only posit that there is a draft out there that where nobody speaks her name.

Regards,

Joe
 
What??? :confused:
Click to expand...

Well, one obvious explanation is that you and she have different script drafts. Another is that Jan missed the single line of dialogue which is the only difference between your desciption of the script and hers. ;)
Click to expand...

Well, technically, my example was scene description, not "dialogue." :eek:

Page 25 - "She slowly raises her head: it's LYTA ALEXANDER, looking disheveled, dirty, clearly having come through hell and whacked on sleepers. ...."



Jan says that Lyta is included in the cast list but not named in the dialogue - which means the only difference between what she said and what you're saying is the one line, "It's LYTA ALEXANDER!" Jan never says that Lyta doesn't have lines, that the lines don't have "LYTA" above them to indicate the speaker or that Lyta is not referrred to by name in scene descriptions, only that Lyta's name isn't used in the dialogue.
Click to expand...

Yes, that's true. According to my script, none of the characters actually spoke her name. Bruder only describes her to Matheson. Nobody names her.

I just re-read that scene. Would have been a very powerful scene, had Pat been in it. Wish Bill Mumy could have been in it, too (In a perfect world,...you catch my drift.).
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Latest posts

Members online

No members online now.
Total: 98 (members: 0, guests: 98)

Share this page

Back
Top