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Old March 4th 10, 12:26   #51
vorlonlovechild
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Re: What's your rewatching thoughts?

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By my limited reckoning of Babylon 5 lore. Earthforce's experimentation and use of Shadow technology stopped after President Clark's corrupt regime was toppled? I'm not sure whether tampering with Shadow technology may have contributed to the "Great Burn" but it seems mankind becomes enlightened by the year 1,000,000 nonetheless. So if mankind evolves to become pure energy, wearing encounter suits which mimic that of the Vorlons and even taking their old homeworld as their own. Will any race stand in opposition?
Hang on there is no evidence that 'mankind' is enlightened at all. We only saw one ranger. Who's to say that he wasn't the exception to the rule, rather than an example of all humans by that point.
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Old March 4th 10, 17:06   #52
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Re: What's your rewatching thoughts?

*coughcough*RangerInsignia*coughcough*
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Old March 5th 10, 02:42   #53
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Re: What's your rewatching thoughts?

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Hang on there is no evidence that 'mankind' is enlightened at all. We only saw one ranger. Who's to say that he wasn't the exception to the rule, rather than an example of all humans by that point.
There isn't anything which proves otherwise. Furthermore there's no need for any 'evidence', it's implied in the episode "The Deconstruction of Falling Stars". The 'lone' Ranger is on his own because he clearly is in charge of archiving humanity's history from the year 2262 to 1,000,000 and transmitting it to mankind's new homeworld; New Earth. The computer reminds the Ranger the Sun will go supernova in five hours and he tells the computer to reassure the 'others' he will make it to New Earth in time for the celebrations. As he wouldn't miss it for anything. To me when the Ranger remarks that humans have "left the cradle for the last time" it is a significant statement. Humanity has irrevocably changed both in evolutionary terms and in its existence as a species. One cannot escape the clear metaphor of him changing into a ball of energy and flying towards a new homeworld to be with his people.
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Old March 5th 10, 14:46   #54
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Re: What's your rewatching thoughts?

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Originally Posted by vorlonlovechild
Hang on there is no evidence that 'mankind' is enlightened at all. We only saw one ranger. Who's to say that he wasn't the exception to the rule, rather than an example of all humans by that point.
There isn't anything which proves otherwise. Furthermore there's no need for any 'evidence', it's implied in the episode "The Deconstruction of Falling Stars". The 'lone' Ranger is on his own because he clearly is in charge of archiving humanity's history from the year 2262 to 1,000,000 and transmitting it to mankind's new homeworld; New Earth. The computer reminds the Ranger the Sun will go supernova in five hours and he tells the computer to reassure the 'others' he will make it to New Earth in time for the celebrations. As he wouldn't miss it for anything. To me when the Ranger remarks that humans have "left the cradle for the last time" it is a significant statement. Humanity has irrevocably changed both in evolutionary terms and in its existence as a species. One cannot escape the clear metaphor of him changing into a ball of energy and flying towards a new homeworld to be with his people.
Yep. I'm not debating that.

Its just a funny impression I got at the end of the episode. Now I believe JMS has said that 'something' is making the sun explode. What is this? Who is doing it? Why are they doing it?

Has Humanity split into 2? We get glimpses of 'history' which indictates humanity is divided. Did the Pro-Earth faction come out on top, or did the Alliance supporters gain the upper hand in mankinds evolution?

(dont shoot me, but I always got the impression the man in the encounter suit was David Sheridan (alright take that gun away please) - which is why the gathering of information was so personal to him)
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Old March 5th 10, 17:57   #55
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Re: What's your rewatching thoughts?

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Its just a funny impression I got at the end of the episode. Now I believe JMS has said that 'something' is making the sun explode. What is this? Who is doing it? Why are they doing it?

Has Humanity split into 2? We get glimpses of 'history' which indictates humanity is divided. Did the Pro-Earth faction come out on top, or did the Alliance supporters gain the upper hand in mankinds evolution?
I always assumed it was some outside group, perhaps some future Drakh or other Shadow minions, but the idea that it was some rejected group of humans would be interesting.

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Old March 5th 10, 18:12   #56
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Re: What's your rewatching thoughts?

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Its just a funny impression I got at the end of the episode. Now I believe JMS has said that 'something' is making the sun explode. What is this? Who is doing it? Why are they doing it?

Has Humanity split into 2? We get glimpses of 'history' which indictates humanity is divided. Did the Pro-Earth faction come out on top, or did the Alliance supporters gain the upper hand in mankinds evolution?
I always assumed it was some outside group, perhaps some future Drakh or other Shadow minions, but the idea that it was some rejected group of humans would be interesting.
in 1 Million years, but, who knows about in 2 MIllion years (if they survive that long)
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Old March 5th 10, 21:16   #57
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Re: What's your rewatching thoughts?

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Its just a funny impression I got at the end of the episode. Now I believe JMS has said that 'something' is making the sun explode. What is this? Who is doing it? Why are they doing it?
I find the matter of the Sun being destroyed by an unknown party to be a last minute addition. It doesn't make sense to me. During the final sequence with the future Ranger, the computer with which he's 'conversing' states: "Note : atypical solar emissions increasing in intensity." "Estimate Sol will hit nova in less than five standard hours." Now during that sequence JMS states on the commentary "there's a line (of dialogue) in here about unusual frequencies bothering the sun. Some one is destroying the Sun. Some one is actually taking that thing out." However, in the episode there's no mention of an outside force inducing the Sun to go supernova. All the computer states is that the Sun's irregular level of "solar emissions" is increasing. Furthermore, the Ranger also seems very calm and composed. Perhaps this is due to the poise and manner in which humans conduct themselves in the year 1,000,000 who do not become emotional nor hysteric so easily as one may expect. Afterall, this is a mankind which has elevated itself to apotheosis (ascending rather than "falling toward apotheosis").

Now if you listen to the wording of JMS he did say "some one is taking the thing out". One would think it to imply a deliberate act of destruction. However, does it have to be a willful act of belligerence? Could it simply have been a measure to prevent knowledge and technology falling into the wrong hands? Imagine all the libraries and pieces of technology amassed by mankind which enabled it to ascend to first one status. Even though their new home had the old Vorlon technology and architecture. It could still be more advanced that what the humans of 1,000,000 C.E created. Whatever they left behind on Earth could be found by a lesser advance race who may misuse that knowledge and technology. In such a case why not strip the planet of all such knowledge and technology? Perhaps they're unable to do so and thought it safer to destroy such knowledge. Now we're not given exact details but I would guess that when mankind returned to the stars en mass after the "Great Burn". It evolved to become better than it was before and so a new equilibrium started to develope within mankind. Perhaps the holy scriptures of "Babylon 5'" had preordained that humans would one day be permitted to 'enter the gates of paradise' although rather than a celestial Heaven their paradise was the old Vorlon homeworld; New Earth. Most if not all of mankind may have migrated to the new homeworld with no one to act as a custodian for the old Earth (other than the sole Ranger who had departed).

Of course I could be incorrect and it was simply a rival faction/civilisation of humans or hostile aliens.

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Has Humanity split into 2? We get glimpses of 'history' which indictates humanity is divided. Did the Pro-Earth faction come out on top, or did the Alliance supporters gain the upper hand in mankinds evolution?
The glimpes or snapshots of mankind's progression up until the "Great Burn" had shown that a residual 'movement' for want of a better term from the Shadows-Clark alliance had endured and perhaps slowly sown the seeds of discontent. To me, the "Great Burn" began to signify mankind's shedding of the old ways and a purging of any belief which would allow it to repeat the mistakes of the past. It's also important to bear in mind what the anti-alliance man from 2762 says to Garibaldi. Something to the effect of "we're tired of being restricted by the Interstellar Alliance. We want more room to expand". Essentially it was a power grab and it all started because one side of Earth was expansionist. It's still possible that a similar or descendent faction remained even through to the year 1,000,000 C.E. However, given that JMS said mankind had "come full-circle" and "Vorlon-like" (minus their failings and mistakes), they were now the teachers and custodians of the younger race. A process which would not be bestowed upon a race unless it had become enlightened. To answer your question more clearly. Yes I feel the Instellar Alliance supporters became dominant although we know the Rangers had a hand in pushing mankind back to the stars.


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(dont shoot me, but I always got the impression the man in the encounter suit was David Sheridan (alright take that gun away please) - which is why the gathering of information was so personal to him)
PPG

I thought David Sheridan had dark hair and not red hair (the future Ranger seemed to have red or 'ginger' facial hair). He could have been a descendent of Sheridan but since JMS makes no special mention of him. I don't think he is David Sheridan. The Ranger may have been a 'keeper' or a future chronicler. He's charged with keeping records of human history and of course preserving it for future generations. As for the significance of what he's doing. He mentions that the world will be consumed in fire but not darkness but its spirit will live on through the recording of all the voices of from his ancestors to the last generation. It's a very poignant, portentous and emotionally moving moment for him.
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Old March 5th 10, 21:58   #58
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Re: What's your rewatching thoughts?

I personally always assumed it was the Earthlings themselves who were blowing up Earth to protect the younger races from their technology. It is an interesting thought though that it could have been an enemy
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Old March 5th 10, 23:43   #59
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Re: What's your rewatching thoughts?

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I personally always assumed it was the Earthlings themselves who were blowing up Earth to protect the younger races from their technology. It is an interesting thought though that it could have been an enemy
I also think we are blowing up Earth ourselves. The guy is far to composed and calm to be in a (apparantly loosing!) war. Also: the guy is asked to hurry or else he would miss the celebration. You´re hardly likely to celebrate when your homeworld is about to be destroyed by hostile forces.
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Old March 8th 10, 09:28   #60
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Re: What's your rewatching thoughts?

The humans have moved on mass to the vorlon homeworld. Something had to trigger that. We would not just move for the sake of moving, unless something was happening which would threaten our very existance.

If we were destroying any chance of anyone else getting their hands on technology why not just destroy earth?



Typical JMS to leave more questions than answers.
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