EpDis: The Coming Of Shadows - Page 3

Mbio · August 17th 05, 20:29

Easy A for me. So much crucial stuff goes on this episode. It won a Hugo for a reason...

Estelyn · June 2nd 10, 20:13

An excellent, excellent episode! The contrast between Londo's scheming for power, resulting in destruction, with his emperor's desire for peace, bringing him to apologise for past wrongs, is very powerful and moving. It's a typical B5 moment - just when you think things could go well and peace is within reach, it all falls apart.

G'Kar acts as a typical Narn at first; I get the impression that his encounter with the emperor is a first step in the direction his character development takes in the future. He learns that compassion and friendship are possible between the two peoples, and he thanks Sheridan for preventing him from acting rashly against Mollari.

I love seeing Sinclair again in his cameo! What an enticing bit of information about his role and the Rangers - a piece that will pay off in episodes and seasons to come.

We also have the theme of choice addressed in the conversation between Vir and Londo - it could have ended there, at least his part could have ended, but "no choice" is a choice.

Londo's dream is also a fascinating look into the future, not just his, but that of the series.

There's so much packed into the episode that it's hard to remember all that impressed me - really good quotes, excellent characters, and a great story. Best one up to this point!

Lennier's Tears · December 30th 15, 18:57

I agree with the vast majority of posters here in that everything about this episode is excellent. Things are really happening here. The Centauri emperor story is interesting, Londo and G'Kar do their Londo and G'Kar thing, the war is happening, the rangers are introduced, and we get to see Sinclair! There's also some beautiful space shots in this. As I said. Everything is excellent

Comments:

Without his wig, the Centauri emperor is halfway to being indistinguishable from a human. If he put on human clothes, no one would be able to tell.
I don't think G'Kar is being all that unreasonable when he voices his objections about the Centauri emperor visiting. If Earth had the same history with the Centauri as the Narn did, I don't think they'd be so keen to have him over, either. Obviously, the actual emperor appears to be a genuinely nice person, who is actually trying to apologize to the Narn, but I don't think that's widely known. A lot of humans are still pretty pissed at the Minbari, and the Earth-Minbari war was very short, compared to the history between the Narn and the Centauri.
Vir looks so uncomfortable whenever Refa is around. For good reason!
That Centauri emperor outfit is really nice-looking. I think I say that every time it's in an episode
Earth had a draft during the Minbari war?
Sheridan's anecdotes are always dad anecdotes
Why is the Prime Minister casually hanging out on the throne?
I noticed the emperor's pillow in medlab has the same pattern as the veils on the telepaths. Must be the imperial pattern.
Londo looks soooo uncomfortable with what he's doing there at the end.
In the Babylon 5 universe, where everything is on data crystals .. how do you keep your data crystals straight? Are they marked somehow? How did the Ranger know which one to give to Delenn and which one to Garibaldi?

A nice space shot from this episode, because it looks so cool:

Jan · December 31st 15, 15:49

Enjoying reading these, thanks.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lennier's Tears

[*]I don't think G'Kar is being all that unreasonable when he voices his objections about the Centauri emperor visiting. If Earth had the same history with the Centauri as the Narn did, I don't think they'd be so keen to have him over, either. Obviously, the actual emperor appears to be a genuinely nice person, who is actually trying to apologize to the Narn, but I don't think that's widely known. A lot of humans are still pretty pissed at the Minbari, and the Earth-Minbari war was very short, compared to the history between the Narn and the Centauri.

If the Emperor were coming to Narn, G'Kar would be perfectly reasonable. But trying to keep him away from a neutral station...not reasonable at all.

That Emperor Turhan was actually going to apologize but died before he could was one of the true tragedies of B5.

Jan

Lennier's Tears · December 31st 15, 18:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jan

Enjoying reading these, thanks.
If the Emperor were coming to Narn, G'Kar would be perfectly reasonable. But trying to keep him away from a neutral station...not reasonable at all.

Yes, I can sort of see that point as well, hence my phrasing it as "not all that unreasonable" rather that "reasonable". But, "neutral" isn't a total free-for-all. People weren't too keen on having Jha'Dur around. The Centauri aren't the Dilgar, obviously, but I'm not sure the difference is that great. If it was the humans that had been conquered and enslaved by the Centauri, ... well, they wouldn't have a Babylon 5 ... but if they did, I kinda feel like they'd be more eager to put certain limits on this "neutrality" thing

Spoilers for later storylines below.

It absolutely fits with the storyline of EarthGov trying to buddy up with the Centauri so I'm not complaining about this story element. I'm not even really judging these humans for making these decisions. Just that from G'Kar's point of view, he HAS to object to the Centauri emperor visiting. He doesn't have to try to murder him, but a strong objection should be expected.

Also I guess my opinion is somewhat colored by the fact that I know what the Centauri are about to get up to, so I don't see a difference between the Centauri now (as in, at the time of this conversation between G'Kar and Sheridan) and the Centauri who occupied the Narn homeworld, while in reality there has probably been a somewhat less imperialistic government in place for a while. Still, if they haven't even publicly apologized for conquering another people's world, trashing the place, and terrorizing the population, I can see why the previously terrorized would object to the leader of that government making a friendly visit to a place dedicated to peace.

One of the main principles of the later Interstellar Alliance is that if you can't play nice with others, you're out. I guess I feel strongly that the Centauri can't play nice with others. This particular emperor turns out to be the nicest guy but he's trapped in a system that won't let him be nice. There are other "nice" Centauri, like Vir and presumably millions of unnamed ones, but their leadership seems irredeemably evil in general, even without the Shadows' involvement. Inviting the Centauri emperor for a casual visit feels a little like inviting Genghis Khan to your space station ("you" being someone not belonging to a people conquered by him). It's not like there's going to be any negotiations.

I'll admit I might be a little prejudiced due to knowledge of certain facts the characters on the show don't have access to

Quote:

That Emperor Turhan was actually going to apologize but died before he could was one of the true tragedies of B5.

Most definitely!

Wulf · January 12th 16, 21:15

I have nothing of value to contribute, but this episode title gives me the urge to flip through all the episode names to see how many could double as adult movie titles....

Edit: For those curious the answer is about 5. A few more, if you lower your standards enough to accept episodes like Infection.

Jan · January 13th 16, 12:41

Okay, gotta see this list! I am curious...purple!

Wulf · January 15th 16, 16:59

Well, here's the list as I see it. If anybody's not in the mood to be 12 again, let me know and I'll remove this. Contributions and discussion are welcome, though an off-topic nuking from a mod isn't totally unexpected =]

The Coming of Shadows
Comes the Inquisitor
A Race Through Dark Places
The Long Dark
Strange Relations
The Long Night

Maybes:
Midnight on the Firing Line
Born to the Purple
Objects in Motion
Learning Curve
A Late Delivery From Avalon

I've got a mental image from that last one of somebody in full Arthurian garb saying "Did somebody order a grail?" as he starts to disrobe.

Jan · January 15th 16, 17:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wulf

Well, here's the list as I see it. If anybody's not in the mood to be 12 again, let me know and I'll remove this. Contributions and discussion are welcome, though an off-topic nuking from a mod isn't totally unexpected =]

The Coming of Shadows
Comes the Inquisitor
A Race Through Dark Places
The Long Dark
Strange Relations
The Long Night

Maybes:
Midnight on the Firing Line
Born to the Purple
Objects in Motion
Learning Curve
A Late Delivery From Avalon

I've got a mental image from that last one of somebody in full Arthurian garb saying "Did somebody order a grail?" as he starts to disrobe.

Not 'The Very Long Night of Londo Mollari'?

Jan

Springer · January 15th 16, 17:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wulf

Well, here's the list as I see it. If anybody's not in the mood to be 12 again, let me know and I'll remove this. Contributions and discussion are welcome, though an off-topic nuking from a mod isn't totally unexpected =]

The Coming of Shadows
Comes the Inquisitor
A Race Through Dark Places
The Long Dark
Strange Relations
The Long Night

Maybes:
Midnight on the Firing Line
Born to the Purple
Objects in Motion
Learning Curve
A Late Delivery From Avalon

I've got a mental image from that last one of somebody in full Arthurian garb saying "Did somebody order a grail?" as he starts to disrobe.

I must have an innocent mind, as I don't get most of them!