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Old July 7th 21, 22:18   #81
Moonface
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Re: New vote for worst episode ever: Between the Darkness and the Light

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Originally Posted by Ubik View Post

Infection - Yes, it has the organic / shadow tech hint, but good god this is a clunky as hell monster of the week episode that just doesn't work. It put a close friend off the series for life. He was unconvinced to start with, this episode put the nail squarely in the coffin.
Yes, I agree, that It is not a good episode, but at least it has a purpose in teaching the viewers about the concept of men and machine and how it works in the B5 universe.

The vindrizi, if I remember correctly, are those memory carrying spine symbionts? This episode serves the same purpose for the watchers as infection did for the pilots of the shadow vessels.

Grey 17 is missing does not work at all, true, but I vaguely remember that the A plot was good. So I forgive the bad B plot.

For me, TKO holds the title as the worst episode. I don't find Ivanovas plot very appealing. This, in my opinion, should have been the B plot to something that's got to do something with the overall story. The Fighting Plot does nothing at all (ok, the "you never watch your back"-line, but that's not really worth mentioning and the betrayal later stings just as much if we'd never hear that warning at all...
So for me, this one is an easy skip. Correct me if I forgot something of significance in Ivanovas plot.
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Old July 8th 21, 06:05   #82
Springer
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Re: New vote for worst episode ever: Between the Darkness and the Light

I've never really understood why Infection is so disliked, even by JMS. It's nothing special by any means, but I didn't find it embarrassing. Season 1 could get very talky at times, so it was nice to just have something with a more action-oriented thrust.

Eyes - for all Gregory Martin's overacting (which I found kind of entertaining in an unintentional way), don't forget there's Jeffrey Combs stood right next to him delivering another great performance.

B5 really flip-flopped with the quality of its guest actors, or casting choices, and sometimes they were pretty terrible. Bernie Casey, anyone? Even Tony Steedman feels a little out of place in that episode, and it does to my mind weaken the episode. On the flip side, sometimes the choice of guest actors did come off: story-wise, I always found The Quality of Mercy a little mundane, but then it has actors like June Lockhart, Jim Norton, and the vastly underrated Mark Rolston who put in great performances to really raise it up to become a good episode.
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Old July 8th 21, 06:13   #83
Springer
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Re: New vote for worst episode ever: Between the Darkness and the Light

[QUOTE=Moonface;464736]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ubik View Post
For me, TKO holds the title as the worst episode. I don't find Ivanovas plot very appealing. This, in my opinion, should have been the B plot to something that's got to do something with the overall story. The Fighting Plot does nothing at all (ok, the "you never watch your back"-line, but that's not really worth mentioning and the betrayal later stings just as much if we'd never hear that warning at all...
So for me, this one is an easy skip. Correct me if I forgot something of significance in Ivanovas plot.
In the UK, TKO was not shown as part of the regular run of the first season (the censors decided bare-knuckle fighting was not appropriate for the 6pm slot it was showing in) so we didn't get to see it until they ran it late at night a week or two before season 2 began showing. But we probably wouldn't have missed it if they had never shown it.

However, I believe it is the first time, at least in science fiction and maybe even mainstream American TV, that a Jewish character had been seen sitting shiva, so it gets a pass from me for just being brave enough to show a different religion on TV. Plus, I guess it humanises Ivanova a little more - she spent most of the first season parking ships in C&C or being stern, so it does show there's a human being underneath all that.
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Old July 9th 21, 01:11   #84
Karajorma
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Re: New vote for worst episode ever: Between the Darkness and the Light

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ubik View Post
Infection - Yes, it has the organic / shadow tech hint, but good god this is a clunky as hell monster of the week episode that just doesn't work. It put a close friend off the series for life. He was unconvinced to start with, this episode put the nail squarely in the coffin.

This episode almost made me write off B5. It was the first one I saw and it basically made the show look like a sub-Trek rip-off with none of the interesting ideas or themes of Trek. The few good bits are almost invisible until you rewatch (or are missing the setup like Garibaldi's speech to Sinclair after he risks his life again). Even the B story is comparatively weak (no Londo, G'Kar or Delenn for the first time).



It was only two years later that a friend convinced me how good the show was and convinced me to start watching from the start of Season 3.
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