Some questions to be answered

The Vorlons would be willing to share jump gates because it would steer the younger races towards their methods of doing things. The Vorlons didn't want the young races to be stagnant just that their progress would be done using the Vorlon model.

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But if the Vorlons are the only source of information about the universe other than what can be gleaned via astonomy, then surely this assists them in making sure that the Younger Races follow the "Vorlon Way"?

Also, did not Z'Ha'Dum have a jumpgate? Would the Shadows have used Vorlon-derived tech like that, given their phobias about "anything even remotely Vorlon"?

And finally, the Vorlons were perfectly willing to allow the Younger Races to stagnate. This is precisely why the Younger Races are forced to reject them.

Also, did not Z'Ha'Dum have a jumpgate? Would the Shadows have used Vorlon-derived tech like that, given their phobias about "anything even remotely Vorlon"?

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The jumpgate at Z'ha'dum might not been there for the Shadows themselves to use but for races that were assisting the Shadows. It was my impression from the Technomage Trilogy that that Anna gave the "reason" of the Shadows being afraid of Vorlon tech solely to keep the White Star away from the planet because of how powerful the ship was, not because of a true phobia of any sort.

Also, did not Z'Ha'Dum have a jumpgate? Would the Shadows have used Vorlon-derived tech like that, given their phobias about "anything even remotely Vorlon"?

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The jumpgate at Z'ha'dum might not been there for the Shadows themselves to use but for races that were assisting the Shadows. It was my impression from the Technomage Trilogy that that Anna gave the "reason" of the Shadows being afraid of Vorlon tech solely to keep the White Star away from the planet because of how powerful the ship was, not because of a true phobia of any sort.

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The jump gate may have been built as part of an attack on Z'ha'dum during one of the previous Shadow Wars. That would leave the Shadows suitable frightened of it. When they are asleep the Shadows may simply switch it off.

Wait a second. I mean, younger races can build jumpgates of their own can't they? When that... what was it called.. anyway, that ships which Cpt. is Sheridan's friend and it gets lost in hyperspace carries the parts needed to build jumpgates? And for that Z'ha'Dum jumpgate... it was "tripodial" gate, like all gates that are in Narn territory. I mean, the original gates maybe were constructions of FO's, but the gate network did grow overtime? Didn't it? That's why gate was BUILT near Epsilon 3. Isn't that so? I mean, younger races can build their own gates, that was the purpose of EA's... was it Cortez? Plot the hyperspace, exit it with own engines, build gate to that position and go back. So not all gates are from FO's. The gate tech can be replicated... They're not like SG's in stargate .

Yes, the younger races can and do build their own jumpgates, and they certainly have jump-capable ships. And despite appearances the Shadows also use essentially the same jump-engine technology to get in and out of hyperspace that everybody else uses. They've just added some kind of stealth effect to make the hole in normal space less obvious. So the whole "jumpgate at Z'ha'dum" thing is simply not that big a deal. And why asssume that Anna was telling the truth about the Shadow's "fears"? She was there to con Sheridan, everything she told him was a lie of one sort or another, beginning with the notion that she was still the same Anna Sheridan.

Regards,

Joe

Jumpgate tech...

The Centauri discovered a Jumpgate at the edge of their solar system, pulled it to bit, examined it, learnt how it worked, then created their own jumpgates and jump engines.

(This was established in In The Beginning, if memory serves...)

Earth was helped by the Centauri, with regard to this.

I also remember (many moons ago) JMS saying that that was roughly how the jumpgate network got built up - races found gates left by the First Ones (not Vorlon/Shadows), took them apart, learned how they worked, and discovered they could trace other jumpgate signatures (thus mapping a network). This is why not all jumpgates have 4 "arms" - Narn jumpgates have 3.

As someone has stated earlier, the network is expanded/maintained by Explorer Class vessels (and their alien equivalents) jumping to distant sectors and constructing a new gate (or mending the one there).

As for the Thirdspace gate, sheesh...lets not even go there...what were they thinking???

Personally I feel that a jumpgate system realy jibes with the personality of the Vorlons -- nice and orderly. Moreover they'd cheerfuly scatter jumpgates in the path of developing species if they thought it would help deal with the Shadows. I don't know what JMS has had to say on the issue but I see no reason why the gates couldn't be Vorlon.

The gate at Z'ha'dum was probably built when some random explorer came through, named the place Alpha Omega 3, found no sign of life, and then headed on out. The Shadows probably left the gate there a) to avoid attracting attention and b) to allow servants to arrive using the gate. If any Human ships without drives of their own wanted to get there, and the gate was gone, they'd be out of luck. A gate, as Joe D, would be no problem -- except in its absence.

As for the Thirdspace gate, sheesh...lets not even go there...what were they thinking???

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Money? Altough, TV movies can't produce THAT much... Hmm... I actually don't know, maybe on the paper the thought was cool and working... but once seen on the TV... Well... it was just terrific man...

I don't know what JMS has had to say on the issue but I see no reason why the gates couldn't be Vorlon.

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JMS has said that the Vorlons did not invent the jumpgates.

Regards,

Joe

Lennier was shown at the end of "Chrysalis" (I believe) with a tear falling down his face while watching Delenn in her cocoon

Hey,

If JMS has said that the Jumpgates pre-date the Shadows and Vorlons, couldn't the Z'ha'dum gate have been built before the Shadows came there the first time.

It's their homeworld (in the sence that Earth 2/Vorlon Prime will be our homeworld eventually) but I don't think we've ever been told that they originated there, just that they keep coming back there because Lorien is there.

Couldn't it have originally been Loriens home system and Jumpgate till he went all quiet down a hole, and the Shadows set up shop upstairs?

My 2p.

Tim

Personally I feel that a jumpgate system realy jibes with the personality of the Vorlons -- nice and orderly. Moreover they'd cheerfuly scatter jumpgates in the path of developing species if they thought it would help deal with the Shadows. I don't know what JMS has had to say on the issue but I see no reason why the gates couldn't be Vorlon.

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Well, that just goes to show how different people see different things, because jumpgates seem more chaotic than orderly to me. They eliminate the need for huge ships which only governments could afford and which would thus be more tightly controlled and orderly. Jumpgates make it possible for all sorts of random people to wander around the galaxy acting on their own personal agendas (like making money). Very un-Vorlonlike, IMO.

The gate at Z'ha'dum was probably built when some random explorer came through, named the place Alpha Omega 3, found no sign of life, and then headed on out. The Shadows probably left the gate there a) to avoid attracting attention and b) to allow servants to arrive using the gate. If any Human ships without drives of their own wanted to get there, and the gate was gone, they'd be out of luck. A gate, as Joe D, would be no problem -- except in its absence.

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I don't think Jump Gates were trivial to build, and therefor doubt that some random explorer would have built one at Z'Ha'Dum merely as they passed through. The Shadows would not leave the gate in place, I don't think, unless they found it useful - and if they found it useful, they would build it in the first place.

My impression is that the Jumpgates were created by The first of the First ones.

My thoughts on the jumpgate at Z'ha'dum are that the allies of the shadows would need to use it.

What I would like to find... would be theories trying to guess the properties/source of this force... and what influences it should effect -- on itself, conventional matter and conventional energy.

I would hope to find an informed guess... of how it might behave (especially differences of behaviour with regard to gravity) and thereby try to imagine what it might be and do.

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Okely-dokely. Here goes.

Start with M-Theory (what used to be called String Theory). You can find out more about it from The Elegant Universe

Okay, now you understand M-Theory, right?

Well, here's my theory regarding the expansion. Remember, I am not a physicist, nor do I claim to understand any of it. But you asked for a theory, and this isn't a bad one, for science fiction purposes.

If you read up on M-Theory, you'll notice that the 'standard' model posits a series of 'branes' or universes, each more or less parallel to each other, like slices of bread in a loaf. Occasionally, the oscillations of these branes causes one to bump into another. Some M-Theory specialists posit that such a collision might have been the genesis of the Big Bang.

Another feature of this model is that it might possibly serve to explain why gravity is so vastly weaker than every other fundamental force in the universe. It could simply be that while those other forces are confined to a single brane, gravity radiates out across the set of branes and thus is only weakly felt in any one brane. Dunno if that's true, but it feeds into my theory, so I'll grab it!

So, picture this. Something, maybe a brane collision, creates our universe some 13.5 billion years ago. Then something else speeds up its expansion some 6 billion years ago. Could this second something be a near-collision? Perhaps the gravitational field of the brane we nearly collided with 6 billion years ago was strongly felt on our brane, causing the visible universe to rapidly expand? Hell, I dare you to prove differently! And if you do, I'm sure I won't understand it, anyway!

Send those dandelion pictures to Hypatia, please.

Thanks for suggesting!

Some quite interesting possibilities! To keep my promise, here are some pictures of mostly flowers (including also a frog, fish, flare and dragonfly). I hope my page presents them in decent form.

I should really offer more... but doing an inventory in my photo archive somewhat surprised me. I have far less dandelion pictures than I thought I had.

Something, maybe a brane collision, creates our universe some 13.5 billion years ago. Then something else speeds up its expansion some 6 billion years ago. Could this second something be a near-collision?

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If the structure/behaviour of the universe really resembles that hypothesis... it might well be. Especially if some physical forces extend their influence beyond/between branes, while others do not.

Using this model, an acceleration of expansion might be interpreted as decrease in attracting forces (which from a gravity-centric viewpoint, could indeed be caused by something massive yet invisible gaining distance).

Okay, now you understand M-Theory, right?

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Naturally!