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Old August 23rd 19, 08:43   #171
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Re: Game of Thrones, HBO series

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On another note, how much do you want to bet that Harington gets cast in Benioff and Weiss' upcoming Star Wars movies? He'd be a great Jedi.
Addressing the last point quickly, I don't know about that. I have no ill will toward Harrington, but I think MANY people lump him in with their dislike of how GOT ended. I don't know if Disney's PR will think that is a good hire. As a matter of fact, I wouldn't be surprised if they rethink the Benioff / Weiss decision because there is a lot of ill will toward those two now, at least according to the internet and all but one person I know who watched it - two if I count you Springer.
Nah, I don't agree with any of that. First, while I do agree that on many of the fan-sites there are 'fans' (not sure if they can be called fans now if they hate the show) who would happily lynch Benioff and Weiss if they got the chance, I think many of the general public enjoyed the show – the anecdotal evidence comes from reading, for example, Facebook comments to newspaper reviews, where it is more of the general public commenting rather than the more highly invested fans. Factual evidence comes in the form of the ratings – every episode in season 8 was higher than every other episode in every previous season with the exception of episodes 705 and 707, and the final two episodes of season 8 beat even them and are the highest rated episodes of the entire series. The season in general, aside from two small dips in episodes 2 and 4, also had the general trend of increasing viewership as the season went along. If the general public thought it was so bad, they'd have been dropping the show in droves wouldn't they? And the show surely wouldn't have gotten so many Emmy nominations, including for Benioff and Weiss and Harington?

Second, do you really agree that because some people hated the ending of Game of Thrones, Benioff or Weiss or even the actors shouldn't be employed again? Some people despised JMS' run on the Spiderman comics (I've never read them, so can't comment), so should he not be allowed to write comics again? Besides, even on the most rabid of GoT fan-sites, there's nothing but love for the actors. Their beef is with Benioff and Weiss. Not sure where lumping the actors in with the hate has come from, I've certainly not seen that and while the show was airing I was reading GoT fan sites every day (they're too toxic now so I just stay away from them – I think the world would be a better place if the GoT and Star Wars fandoms didn't exist!)

Netflix certainly don't agree. They've just signed Benioff and Weiss on a multi-million dollar deal to develop shows for them.

HBO don't agree. GoT has been their most successful show ever. Season 8 probably surpassed all their hopes in terms of viewership and subscriptions. They're likely ecstatic at how the season performed, and the show as a whole.

And anyway, Disney and Kathleen Kennedy have given Rian Johnson an entire Star Wars trilogy, and if there's any creator currently hated more than Benioff and Weiss, it's him. So if he can still get a Star Wars gig, Benioff and Weiss certainly can keep theirs (rumour is it is going to be a Knight's of the Old Republic story, which is exciting to me).

I just wish we could get back to writers being able to tell the stories they want, without being hated for it. The reaction to GoT and the Last Jedi will have sent shivers down the spine of writers. If someone doesn't like a story, they should just move on if all they can do is spew hate. Imagine you wrote a novel, and it didn't get good reviews, well you'd be disappointed but fair enough. But if people then started a petition to get somebody else to rewrite your story? Well, screw them.
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Old August 23rd 19, 14:16   #172
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Re: Game of Thrones, HBO series

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Nah, I don't agree with any of that. First, while I do agree that on many of the fan-sites there are 'fans' (not sure if they can be called fans now if they hate the show) who would happily lynch Benioff and Weiss if they got the chance, I think many of the general public enjoyed the show – the anecdotal evidence comes from reading, for example, Facebook comments to newspaper reviews, where it is more of the general public commenting rather than the more highly invested fans. Factual evidence comes in the form of the ratings – every episode in season 8 was higher than every other episode in every previous season with the exception of episodes 705 and 707, and the final two episodes of season 8 beat even them and are the highest rated episodes of the entire series. The season in general, aside from two small dips in episodes 2 and 4, also had the general trend of increasing viewership as the season went along. If the general public thought it was so bad, they'd have been dropping the show in droves wouldn't they? And the show surely wouldn't have gotten so many Emmy nominations, including for Benioff and Weiss and Harington?

Second, do you really agree that because some people hated the ending of Game of Thrones, Benioff or Weiss or even the actors shouldn't be employed again? Some people despised JMS' run on the Spiderman comics (I've never read them, so can't comment), so should he not be allowed to write comics again? Besides, even on the most rabid of GoT fan-sites, there's nothing but love for the actors. Their beef is with Benioff and Weiss. Not sure where lumping the actors in with the hate has come from, I've certainly not seen that and while the show was airing I was reading GoT fan sites every day (they're too toxic now so I just stay away from them – I think the world would be a better place if the GoT and Star Wars fandoms didn't exist!)

Netflix certainly don't agree. They've just signed Benioff and Weiss on a multi-million dollar deal to develop shows for them.

HBO don't agree. GoT has been their most successful show ever. Season 8 probably surpassed all their hopes in terms of viewership and subscriptions. They're likely ecstatic at how the season performed, and the show as a whole.

And anyway, Disney and Kathleen Kennedy have given Rian Johnson an entire Star Wars trilogy, and if there's any creator currently hated more than Benioff and Weiss, it's him. So if he can still get a Star Wars gig, Benioff and Weiss certainly can keep theirs (rumour is it is going to be a Knight's of the Old Republic story, which is exciting to me).

I just wish we could get back to writers being able to tell the stories they want, without being hated for it. The reaction to GoT and the Last Jedi will have sent shivers down the spine of writers. If someone doesn't like a story, they should just move on if all they can do is spew hate. Imagine you wrote a novel, and it didn't get good reviews, well you'd be disappointed but fair enough. But if people then started a petition to get somebody else to rewrite your story? Well, screw them.
That is ALL great, but you highly over-estimate the number of people who are okay with that show in the U.S. In my personal experience I know 10 people, counting you Springer, whom watched the entire series. Not knowing your age I can say their ages range all over the map from 17 to 71. You, me, and a friend who's 43 are the only people who didn't absolutely hate all of Season 8. (Sorry I had to make that phrase work. ) I said "me" because I didn't absolutely hate all of Season 8, but I did hate many aspects of Season 8. I didn't hate that Jon Snow ended up North of The Wall, but I hate how he ended up there and honestly I didn't feel the look on his face as he rode away from The Wall conveyed the sentiments you mentioned.

And I never said they shouldn't be employed again. What I am saying is that I am surprised Disney would hire them for Star Wars. Point out every bit of argument you want that the public outcry isn't that bad, but it is pretty bad - at least here. That is why I am surprised Disney would hire them. There is already enough of a roller coaster in the Star Wars Universe. Hiring the team who created an uproar with their handling of another hugely popular franchise seems like a huge risk to take, which is why I won't be surprised if we see that they couldn't see eye-to-eye in a few months and are no longer involved with the Star Wars Universe.
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Old August 23rd 19, 18:31   #173
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Re: Game of Thrones, HBO series

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That is ALL great, but you highly over-estimate the number of people who are okay with that show in the U.S. In my personal experience I know 10 people, counting you Springer, whom watched the entire series. Not knowing your age I can say their ages range all over the map from 17 to 71. You, me, and a friend who's 43 are the only people who didn't absolutely hate all of Season 8. (Sorry I had to make that phrase work. ) I said "me" because I didn't absolutely hate all of Season 8, but I did hate many aspects of Season 8. I didn't hate that Jon Snow ended up North of The Wall, but I hate how he ended up there and honestly I didn't feel the look on his face as he rode away from The Wall conveyed the sentiments you mentioned.

And I never said they shouldn't be employed again. What I am saying is that I am surprised Disney would hire them for Star Wars. Point out every bit of argument you want that the public outcry isn't that bad, but it is pretty bad - at least here. That is why I am surprised Disney would hire them. There is already enough of a roller coaster in the Star Wars Universe. Hiring the team who created an uproar with their handling of another hugely popular franchise seems like a huge risk to take, which is why I won't be surprised if we see that they couldn't see eye-to-eye in a few months and are no longer involved with the Star Wars Universe.
Fair points. I do seem to find that I often enjoy things that perceived wisdom on social media thinks is trash I love the Matrix trilogy for example, think Star Trek: The Motion Picture is among the best Star Trek films, obviously I liked the GoT ending, I guess even B5 to an extent is something that isn't universally appreciated. My tastes do seem somewhat idiosyncratic, but it does sadden me to see all the hate. I remember reading someone on a forum somewhere dismissing B5 in one sentence as 'overrated', and I thought to myself, how can a series that's had such a profound effect on people like us be overrated? Might not be their cup of tea, but that's different. And that's kind of how I feel about the hate GoT gets.

I think re. Star Wars, Disney have already got a reputation of harshly treating their creators. Colin Trevorrow got dumped unceremoniously, Lord and Miller got sacked (though from the sounds of it that might have been the right decision), Gareth Edwards got some pressure from above to reshoot scenes in Rogue One, I think Kathleen Kennedy has to start appearing more supportive of her creators. And who knows, maybe she was one of the 10 people in the world that liked the ending to GoT! Plus, by the time the films come out, 2022 I think, the furore would probably have blown over and people will have forgotten who Benioff and Weiss are, or maybe their work for Netflix will find them new fans. I think a bigger indicator of what future Star Wars films are made will be how Rise of Skywalker performs.

Which reminds me, I need to rewatch The Last Jedi before then with fresh eyes and see if my feelings about it have changed.
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Old August 24th 19, 02:12   #174
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Re: Game of Thrones, HBO series

I think the biggest reason people don't give B5 credit is because they can't put its greatness in context. People judge it by modern standards without realizing the CRITICAL role it played in creating those standards. Without B5 we don't get GOT. There were serialized shows before B5, but not many in the era of B5 that accomplished what B5 accomplished. People don't know the credit B5 got during its time for what it did, at least in the Science Fiction arena.
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Old August 29th 19, 03:33   #175
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Re: Game of Thrones, HBO series

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I looked up which episode of GoT that YouTube reviewer watched, it was a bit of a strange choice? I mean, I really like the episode (though logic does go out the window at times, I admit) but it's really not representative of the series as a whole. And GoT is so serialised it's hard to pick just one episode - you really have to start at the beginning don't you?
YES! That is just it. You really can't pick one GOT episode and just start there. The whole concept is ridiculous because you have to watch it from the beginning. Now as I've said before, I first started B5 at the beginning of Season 2. I disagree that one could start somewhere other than the beginning because it is soooooooooooooooooooooooooo much better when you see it as a whole. I totally missed out on knowing Sinclair as a real character until I was able to see Season One, which didn't happen until around the TNT Days. I will grant you that it is nowhere near the level of having to see all of GOT, but as a whole it is better to start at the beginning.
Maybe the next Poll should be - Where does one absolutely HAVE to start B5, meaning if it were playing in order and you missed the start what is the episode you can't miss when it comes up on the schedule?

Okay so back to the GOT video. I should have also pointed out it was meant to be a fun side video that wasn't really meant to focus too much on that particular episode of GOT. But I felt so upset she was bashing it. I feel like you can't criticize GOT unless you watched GOT. It felt like a code violation or something. It seemed ridiculous that someone could pull a random episode and then criticize the entire series based on that one episode. It just felt wrong. If you aren't part of the club then you can't question the club.
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Old August 29th 19, 09:12   #176
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Re: Game of Thrones, HBO series

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Okay so back to the GOT video. I should have also pointed out it was meant to be a fun side video that wasn't really meant to focus too much on that particular episode of GOT. But I felt so upset she was bashing it. I feel like you can't criticize GOT unless you watched GOT. It felt like a code violation or something. It seemed ridiculous that someone could pull a random episode and then criticize the entire series based on that one episode. It just felt wrong. If you aren't part of the club then you can't question the club.
That is *exactly* how I feel about B5! It's almost like B5 is this little show that we fans need to protect.

Maybe we need to start the B5 hit squad, where we wander the Internet looking for people dissing on B5, then put them to rights!

I'd do the same for GoT, but I don't think I can take on millions of people by myself! lol
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Old August 31st 19, 16:53   #177
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Re: Game of Thrones, HBO series

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Okay so back to the GOT video. I should have also pointed out it was meant to be a fun side video that wasn't really meant to focus too much on that particular episode of GOT. But I felt so upset she was bashing it. I feel like you can't criticize GOT unless you watched GOT. It felt like a code violation or something. It seemed ridiculous that someone could pull a random episode and then criticize the entire series based on that one episode. It just felt wrong. If you aren't part of the club then you can't question the club.
That is *exactly* how I feel about B5! It's almost like B5 is this little show that we fans need to protect.

Maybe we need to start the B5 hit squad, where we wander the Internet looking for people dissing on B5, then put them to rights!

I'd do the same for GoT, but I don't think I can take on millions of people by myself! lol
Definitely. You can't bad mouth B5 until you've seen all of B5. From an effects angle, they could have done an entire series and done nothing with computer animated spaceships and it would still be a pretty damn good series.

So The Babylon 5 Defenders or Avengers?
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