After many episodes...my take on Jeremiah

I tend to give SF/Fantasy series more of a chance to gain my loyalty than other genres of television. I've watched most of the episodes aired so far and I've come to the realization that this show basically bores me.

Television has to grab me in some way. I have to really be intrigued or like the characters...or premise...or the originality of the writing...or, in the case of the shows I get really loyal to...all three.

At this point, I'm realizing I have no emotional or intellectual attachment to this show. I feel I'm watching it out of duty rather than desire.

I don't know what's missing, but something is.

Perhaps you are expecting something more science-fictionish of it? Because to tell the truth there is nothing Sc-fi about Jeremiah so far apart from the premise. No leaps in science, no unexplained phenomena. If a random view watches Journeys End in Lovers Meeting not having heard of Jeremiah before, I can bet that s/he won't even consider it sci-fi.

So perhaps that is what you think is missing?

Savant, are you, perhaps, waiting for the other shoe to drop?

I am...

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by SavantB5:
<font color=yellow>

I don't know what's missing, but something is.</font color=yellow><hr></blockquote>

Agree, and in my case, the plot is too bland. Tonight's ep is my last since it is the last new SG-1 ep on Showtime so will be cancelling since I don't care much for the rest of their programming.

Its no secreat i love the show. Its not sci-fi in the sense of space ships,aliens and so on. Its about a possible future if a virus hit and the world after it. Plus the first season is only half over. There is a lot left to come

Capt

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by CaptDS9E:
<font color=yellow>It's about a possible future if a virus hit and the world after it. Plus the first season is only half over. There is a lot left to come

Capt</font color=yellow><hr></blockquote>

That may be why I can't get into it -- not the lack of aliens, space ships, etc, but presenting a future that wouldn't happen as shown. In the first place, with the death of grownups, most children, especially in large towns, would have starved to death since they would have way to feed themselves. The few that survived would have reverted to a savage state to live. In the farmlands, more would have survived but have reverted to a hunting/agricultural survival mode because feeding themselves would be the prime motivator. Killing to survive would have become the name of the game. True, some tech would have survived but would be quickly lost. And so on...

In other words, to me, it is a badly thought out plot.

Plus real viruses are not likely to behave in such manner.

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Lennier:
<font color=yellow>Plus real viruses are not likely to behave in such manner.</font color=yellow><hr></blockquote>

True, and a lot of other holes in the plot.

Not to open up this freakin virus debate, but who is to say it was a virus in the first place? Jesus people, its FICTION. Take it for granted that the one point of the story is possible SOMEHOW. What if it never was a virus, but something else that was developed and spread differently? You dont know. No one knows. Just a bunch of kids were left alive who probably "assumed" it was a virus. So lets cut the "unrealistic plot" crap and just take that part for granted and watch more important parts of the show.

Here is my take on things, and I dont know how Savant's reactions were during B5. If you compare Season 1 B5 to Season 1 Jeremiah, then Jeremiah wins big. I dont think Jeremiah is on B5's level yet, but that is because I have seen the completed product all the way though. We are barely scraping the surface of Jeremiah so far, and what we have seen surpasses the first 8 Episodes of B5 EASY.

Just out of curiousity Savant, what DID you think of the first season of B5? Honestly, I tuned it out and stopped watching. It wasnt until 2 years ago when I caught the reruns of Season 2-3 on Sci-Fi that I got curious and watched. Season 1 of B5 in the initial run turned me off and I was pretty quick to judge. I think S1 of Jeremiah delivers a lot more than B5 did, and I believe it has a ton of room to develop into a lot more.

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Recoil:
<font color=yellow>Not to open up this freakin virus debate, but who is to say it was a virus in the first place? Jesus people, its FICTION. Take it for granted that the one point of the story is possible SOMEHOW. What if it never was a virus, but something else that was developed and spread differently? You dont know. No one knows. Just a bunch of kids were left alive who probably "assumed" it was a virus. So lets cut the "unrealistic plot" crap and just take that part for granted and watch more important parts of the show..</font color=yellow><hr></blockquote>

I know it is fiction but to me good fiction, scifi or drama, makes the viewer feel the plot COULD happen as presented. I don't get that feeling with Jeremiah.

And I was hooked on B5 from the first episode on because the characters had a "real" feel to them.

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by gangster:
<font color=yellow>I know it is fiction but to me good fiction, scifi or drama, makes the viewer feel the plot COULD happen as presented. I don't get that feeling with Jeremiah.</font color=yellow><hr></blockquote>
There isnt a person on this planet who can say for sure that the circumstances in Jeremiah COULDN'T happen (virus or otherwise). The concept seems very believable and plausable to me. We are screwing around with biologial warfare and God knows what else, is this really that hard to believe? It shouldnt be.

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Recoil:
<font color=yellow>There isnt a person on this planet who can say for sure that the circumstances in Jeremiah COULDN'T happen (virus or otherwise). The concept seems very believable and plausable to me. We are screwing around with biologial warfare and God knows what else, is this really that hard to believe? It shouldnt be.</font color=yellow><hr></blockquote>

You misinterpreted what I say. I said, "I don't get that feeling with Jeremiah." Not that others do.

As for a Biowar agent, there is no such thing as "total" kill targeted viruses because life doesn't work that way, even with a genetically engineered virus. There will always be immunes and those whose bodies fight off the virus. (But I'm not arguing this point. It was Lennier who shot this down.)

Viruses Smiruses, the real plot hole is the roads.

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by PsionTen:
<font color=yellow>Viruses Smiruses, the real plot hole is the roads.</font color=yellow><hr></blockquote>

ROFLMAO

damn you Psion! warn me next time... i've just sprayed coffee all over my new keyboard 'cos i was drinking whilst reading your post...

and i don't think Savant is referring purely to the virus plot (which is a bit shaky!) but an inability to connect to the characters/general situation... which is a shame 'cos Jeremiah has me by the throat at the moment...

what other show can have a simple line like "but this guy's old!" cause your jaw to drop and say 'what the f...'?

and bearing in mind the backstory (and the fact that we have some kids who were 10-12 when the virus struck) i *personally* find it quite believable that small communities would begin to flourish and survive... yeah many kids in cities would have died but you can imagine many more banding together and scavenging resources/pooling abilities...

i just want to know how the hell any of these kids learnt to drive 'cos there are an awful lot of good drivers out there!

hmm..

I like the show. If there is something I would wish for, it is a little bit more passion. Complex intriege is important, but passion is what really drives a show. I want more of it.

But as so many has already pointed out.This is only the first season. We shall see what happends later...

/Com

I just want the other shoe to drop.

They fed us something with Firewall, and then entirely ignored it for the last two or three episodes. (I haven't seen Thieves' Honor yet.) But from what I've seen, the first part of the season really led UP to Firewall - and there should be some more plotbuilding.

But there's not!

Where's the other shoe, dammit?

Remember in B5, we saw Signs and Portents in Ep 13, and didnt see JACK SH@T again until the S1 Finale, Ep 22. (In regards to who the hell was that guy and that black ship). In Jeremiah we got our teaser at Ep 8, and at the VERY least, we will see more in the Season 1 Finale. I imagine we may get a taste or two before then though. Either way so far it is sort of consistent with B5 in respects to developing the story. We have just grown more impatient now. /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif

\Reading you comments crystalizes some of my thoughts.

Is it because of a lack of clear arc, as some people mentioned? Not in my case. There are plenty of TV shows that can hold my interest without an arc. CSI is the best example I can think of. The first season of Farscape had little arc and I liked it almost from the beginning because the characters were interesting and the standalones good fun.

I'm not an "arc-aholic" when it comes to TV. In fact, I'm quite critical of shows that spend too much time talking about "arcs" and not enough time making the individual 45 minutes I just spent with an episode interesting unto itself.

Is it because it doesn't have enough of what people consider "science fiction" elements? No. For one thing, a lot of the TV I like isn't science fiction. Many of the science fiction books I've read are not pure space opera. I'll admit post-apocalyptic sf isn't my favorite sub-genre, but I'm familiar with it.

Someone else touched on the premise. I'll admit that I've been critical of the vision of the show. It has never appeared to be a realistic future as I would imagine a society built with people with partial or no formal education would be like. Too many characters are far too literate and articulate for me to imagine that they haven't had school or exposure to the mass media since they were small children. I would imagine a world with more "Feral Kids" like that in Blade Runner than what is presented here. But, I'll expect that this is TV and a show like that would probably never get on air. Still, if I don't really *believe* this could really happen and the writing doesn't overcome that, how can I get engaged in this world? Good SFTV allows me to suspend my disbelief constantly and go with it. Somehow, Jeremiah doesn't.

I guess what it comes down to is...

Do I care about the characters or what they are doing?

Not really. Part of the problem could be Luke Perry. He isn't very compelling. I think the only character that occasionally draws me in is Kurdy, but he's the "sidekick" and doesn't get enough to do.

Do the individual episodes engage me?

Rarely. There are occasional moments that do. The episode with the other guy from "90210" (can't remember titles of a show I don't really care about), had some genuine scary moments, for example.

The arc?

How can I care about the arc--whatever it is--if I don't care about the characters and what happens to them. Unless it's "hyper-arc" as that on display in "24" and it constantly throws action at you from the beginning, most arcs need you to care first.

To answer the B5 question, I was a casual viewer of B5 through its first two seasons. There was enough at that point in my life to keep me watching. I didn't even have any idea there was supposed to be a "5 year plan" until the middle of the third season and I came online. B5 wasn't extremely arc-driven until it really became more serialized after that. The arc wasn't why I watched through that point.

\<blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by gangster:
<font color=yellow>There will always be immunes and those whose bodies fight off the virus.</font color=yellow><hr></blockquote>

There is a person that is immune to it. And when she is brought to Thunder Mountain a doctor says that when it is all over they will need to develope a cure. Also it sometimes takes a while to develope a cure. For example the plague went on for a long time in europe and it took a while to develope a vaccine for it.

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by SavantB5:
<font color=yellow>I tend to give SF/Fantasy series more of a chance to gain my loyalty than other genres of television.</font color=yellow><hr></blockquote>

What your not realizing is that Jeremiah is not truely a "Science Fiction" show except for the fact that the "virus" was develop[ed scientifically there is nothing SF about it. It mainly is just a "Fiction" show. And when i first saw B5 i to thought it sucked ass, note i am only 16, later on my dad started to watch the later seasons and i got interested in it.


Recoil, i truely agree with everything you say about it, gj.

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by gangster:
<font color=yellow>That may be why I can't get into it -- not the lack of aliens, space ships, etc, but presenting a future that wouldn't happen as shown. In the first place, with the death of grownups, most children, especially in large towns, would have starved to death since they would have way to feed themselves. The few that survived would have reverted to a savage state to live. In the farmlands, more would have survived but have reverted to a hunting/agricultural survival mode because feeding themselves would be the prime motivator. Killing to survive would have become the name of the game. True, some tech would have survived but would be quickly lost. And so on...

In other words, to me, it is a badly thought out plot.</font color=yellow><hr></blockquote>

No i doubt they would return to a savage state, A portion grew up in a society with techknowledgey and order in it, who's to say they wouldn't keep it? Second, some did turn back to savage i.e. the "Skin Heads" or just those bad "Gang" all together, they took a woman and started raping her. Third, before we had techknowledgey people did pretty much exactly like they did they traded things, just their things are far more advanced, olden time, fur, meat, clean water, etc. In show, batterys, gas, candy (yum yum), etc. Fourth, you say "Killing would be the name of the game" well it kinda is/was, when they show Jeremiah thinking when his little brother died they they showed a "goon" killing his little bro, by accident, over food, and some other supplies too.

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by gangster:
<font color=yellow>Agree, and in my case, the plot is too bland. Tonight's ep is my last since it is the last new SG-1 ep on Showtime so will be cancelling since I don't care much for the rest of their programming.</font color=yellow><hr></blockquote>

You like SG1, enough said.

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by channe:
<font color=yellow>I just want the other shoe to drop.

They fed us something with Firewall, and then entirely ignored it for the last two or three episodes. (I haven't seen Thieves' Honor yet.) But from what I've seen, the first part of the season really led UP to Firewall - and there should be some more plotbuilding.

But there's not!

Where's the other shoe, dammit?</font color=yellow><hr></blockquote>

First, the two shows after "Fire Wall" is writen by a different writer. Second, those two episodes give you a feel what it is like to grow up like that. Savage you say, that guy stealing little kids blood is savage to me.

In closing this show isn't for everyone we all have different interest, for example the luny people who actually watch soap operas!!!!!!