Let's Get Real Here

Re: Let\'s Get Real Here

Damn, you people really are some star-struck fans. Of course I'm not saying that there could be a B5: Crusades tele-film somewhere down the road, but the series is DEAD. Frankly, I didn't have the time to read DeMo's press statement for JMS -- he tends to wax poetic when he speaks about the man (and I say again, if he's not on the JMS payroll then he should be).

Jeez, I'm surprised that there aren't a few of you out there still pulling for a season six--- "It could happen ... JMS hasn't ruled it out!" Whatever. JMS hasn't ruled out dropping 25 pounds, but I can safely assume that that isn't going to happen either.

Frankly, I like the man's work, but let's get real ... Crusade wasn't as good as B5. And yes, you can give me that "...but there were only 13 episodes...." argument, but it doesn't pass the laugh-o-meter. Exactly how many shows does it take for something to be "good?" Would 13 more have made it "good?" The damn thing is dead and let it rest in peace.

Hey, I know ... I really like Seinfeld re-runs ... maybe if the ratings can go up on syndication then perhaps Jerry Seinfeld will bring it back.... "He hasn't ruled it out, y'know?"

Good riddance "Crusade." May your episodes never air on Sci-Fi again.


And to DeMo who basically blasts me for stating my "opinion" ... what the hell else would I post? For one thing, I never said that I WASN'T posting anything other than my own opinion. For a second thing, unless you WORK for JMS (which I suspect you do) or work for Sci-Fi (which I wouldn't doubt)then you aren't stating nothing more than rumors, supposition and opinions yoursef. For a third thing, if you are SO CERTAIN (50/50 chance didn't you say????) that it will comeback, then how about a friendly wager? It can be for money, for fun, for ridicule... whatever you want. Though I'm not from Missouri, I am a "show me" kind a person. I say put your money where your mouth is or (in the immortal words of Mr. T) "Stop all the jibba-jabba." 50-50 odds are a lot better than you'd get in any game in Vegas. I'm willing to make a friendly wager on whether Sci-Fi will pick up Crusade ... are you? And like I said, it doesn't HAVE to be money, it can be something like posting a humilating post about yourself (subject to the winner's approval). Whatever. But I'm that sure that Crusade (as a series) is Dead. Everybody else here thinks differently. If I'm soooo wrong, then why don't you just step up to the plate and we'll discuss the stakes. Otherwise, you're just wasting my time.

But I don't think anyone here -- DeMo included-- is willing to do that. As usual, there's nothing but a lot of talk going on here, but little to no action. No one with balls enough to put themselves on the line... except for me.

Re: Let\'s Get Real Here

Christ! Why don't you two just have an old fashioned pistol duel and be done with it!!!!!!!!!!!

As for Crusade, compare it to the first 13 episodes of Babylon 5, then try to tell me (with a straight face) that the B5 eps are superior.

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The Corps is Mother, the Corps is Father
Trust the Corps

Re: Let\'s Get Real Here

A.Jerry Seinfeld has ruled out Seinfeld ever coming back. The ratings were never a problem..it was highest rated show! He just didn't want to do it anymore.

B.SHOW HHR
Farscape 1.7
Invisible Man 1.3
The Outer Limits 1.2
Crusade 1.1
Escape From Mars 1.1
Babylon 5 0.9
John Edward 0.9
Interceptor Force 0.9
First Wave 0.8
Lost World 0.8

I'll let that speak for itself.

C.Did you read any of those posts? I could repeat everything that was said there...but I won't. Just suffice it all to say there's no such thing is impossibilities. There's always a chance. Never say never. If you can't see that JMS has been obviously avoiding ever saying that Crusade is dead(still 3 years after the show aired no less) then you must be blind or stupid...or both.

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"I'd like to live just long enough to be there when they cut off your head and stick it on a pike as a warning to the next ten generations that some favors come with too high a price. I'd look up at your lifeless eyes and wave like this. Can you and your associates arrange it for me, Mr. Morden?"
Vir - In The Shadow of Z' HA Dum

Re: Let\'s Get Real Here

OK, why is there even an argument about this? JMS is about to make another B5-like Sci-fi. Why can't we just give that a chance, rather than go dig in his past rather unsuccessful (for reasons we all know) work.Lets just see what Rangers is like!

And, Anthony F, there's no comparing Buffy & B5! THey are totally different. And if I may add B5 is in many aspects far superior to Buffy which is oriented at prepubescent(don't remeber can u use that word in english?) teeneage girls.

Bester, the first 13 B5 episodes are also by far better than Crusade. B5 created an atmosphere, it had humour and likeable group of characters. Crusade has not succeded in doing that.

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"I don't watch TV. It's a cultural wasteland full of inappropriate metaphors and an unrealistic portrayal of life created by the liberal media league."
- Guard outside Sheridans cell in "Between Darkness & Light"

Re: Let\'s Get Real Here

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Power-Of-Ten:


No one with balls enough to put themselves on the line... except for me.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah PoT, you're real hero!

At the end of the day, everybody here is sharing their opinions, it's a messgae board, that's what it's for. But no-one else has felt the need to do so in such an aggressive manner as you seem to PoT. If we all want to believe that there is a possibility of the show coming back, why not let us? I don't think any of us feel that we need you to save us from the disappointment if it doesn't happen!
Just my two cents.

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No thing i do don't do no thing but bring me more to do

Re: Let\'s Get Real Here

First off I don't know of any prepubescent girls who watch Buffy...it's mostly guys my age. I happen to really like Buffy. In fact it's made me miss 2 episodes of Crusade.

Second,the first 13 episodes of Crusade were WAY better than B5's. I almost quit watching B5 because of it's first half of episodes.

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"I'd like to live just long enough to be there when they cut off your head and stick it on a pike as a warning to the next ten generations that some favors come with too high a price. I'd look up at your lifeless eyes and wave like this. Can you and your associates arrange it for me, Mr. Morden?"
Vir - In The Shadow of Z' HA Dum

Re: Let\'s Get Real Here

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Christ! Why don't you two just have an old fashioned pistol duel and be done with it!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I object to the "you two." PoT posted a series of absolute statments ("Get real..." "...ain't coming back...ever.") without any qualifiers such as "I think" or "in my opinion." He was stating this as fact and ridiculing anyone who didn't believe his assertions. He offered no supporting evidence to back any of this up, and cited no authority for believing any of it. (And still hasn't.)

In my reply I pointed out that unless he works for one of the entities mentioned there is no way he can know any of this for a fact, anymore than I can. Apart from the sarcasm in that first paragraph there was nothing resembling a personal attack in anything I wrote.

(The rest of what I wrote, which PoT didn't bother to read, was almost entirely about the Sci-Fi Channel and the reasons that picking up Crusade might make sense. Scarcely a word about JMS in any of it.)

PoT responds by making fun of JMS's weight, mangling my name, and resorting to unfounded ad hominem attacks. There is no "two" involved here. The personal venom is all coming from one side.

Being an adult, I'll ignore it except to point out that I don't work for Sci-Fi, Babylonian Productions, or JMS personally. Actually, I've never met the man.

I live in Florida, make my living as a computer network administrator and have been to Los Angeles exactly once in my life, for a week last November. (I did have lunch with a former TNT/B5 liason person, who is a friend, and I talked with a Warner Home Video rep about the upcoming DVDs while I was there. That is as close as I've ever come to meeting anyone connected with the show in person.) At the moment I'm not working for anybody. I got laid-off from a shaky dot-com and decided to go back to school and get another certification before looking for my next job.

Regards,

Joe
Sigh Corps
Pat Tallman Division

P.S.

Since the subject of "balls" has come up:

On this board and elsewhere I post under my real name, include a real, identifiable, e-mail address whenever the software permits, and publish the URL of my home page. I stand behind my words and accept the consequences of my public utterances. When I've been proven wrong I've admitted it, and apologized. That's "putting something on the line."



[This message has been edited by Joseph DeMartino (edited April 30, 2001).]

Re: Let\'s Get Real Here

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Power-Of-Ten:
Jeez, I'm surprised that there aren't a few of you out there still pulling for a season six--- "It could happen ... JMS hasn't ruled it out!" Whatever. JMS hasn't ruled out dropping 25 pounds, but I can safely assume that that isn't going to happen either.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Jms has in fact been very consistant in stomping on any any atempt at declaring the show dead, and emphasized the fact that SciFi would be looking at the show's ratings.

If those who belive Crusade could come back are deluded fanboys, then jms is the biggest of them all.



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Re: Let\'s Get Real Here

Once again, I am attacked and once again the damn thing was too long and too boring for me to read. But here's what I imagine it went like:


"PoT you are mean. You are stupid. You scary me and my mommie said that you were the boogey man"

Or at least that's my rendition of whatever the hell it was that Dandruff Man was saying. Who the hell knows for sure. Its hard to understand anyone that takes himself so seriously.

Re: Let\'s Get Real Here

POT...you are an idiot.

I feel as Joe does..either it's coming back or it's not. Once JMS says definitively that it's dead I'll leave it alone. It doesn't mean I can't hope.

And it doesn't mean that I can use what facts there are for the positives of it coming back to share with other ppl.

You however have no facts. Therefore you are saying nothing of any importance. You're just badgering other members.

I could give a damn about you're opinions enough to be angry about them.

I'm angry about how you're treating the board members.

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"I'd like to live just long enough to be there when they cut off your head and stick it on a pike as a warning to the next ten generations that some favors come with too high a price. I'd look up at your lifeless eyes and wave like this. Can you and your associates arrange it for me, Mr. Morden?"
Vir - In The Shadow of Z' HA Dum

Re: Let\'s Get Real Here

Waitaminute, I just got so bored that I actually read the end of whatever it was that DeMo wrote at the end of his pontifications. Yeah, that was a nice one DeMo, especially since you risk nothing. How about if I'm right I stay and If you're wrong (as we all know that you are) then you go.

Hmm, seems like my "opinions" are not so far-fetched after all. If you are right--- and it is a 50/50 chance that Crusade comes back then accept the bet. If you don't, then you are either admitting (a) that I was right all along, or (b) you are to whimpy to make such an insignificant bet. Or are you too scared that you won't have a place to flap your lips at anymore?

Seems to me that this is the perfect opprotunity to get rid of me. Why don't you, or one of your boys: Mr. Cotto (still laughing) or Dandruff Man take up the mantle since you are so unwilling?

A 50-50 chance of getting rid of me? How can you not take that bet! How many times have I jumped on Dandruff Man alone? I've been DeMo's "shadow" for the last month. You know you want me gone, so do something about it.

Re: Let\'s Get Real Here

Sorry Dandruff Man, your post is still too long for me to read. I did notice the word "idiot," so I see that my little paraphrase wasn't that far off base.

You being pissed at me for things that I write to others is beginning to be a re-occurring motif.

I wonder why that is?

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Re: Let\'s Get Real Here

"Once again, I am attacked and once again the damn thing was too long and too boring for me to read. But here's what I imagine it went like..."

Okay, I'll keep this in simple, two-sentence structure for you.

Too stuck-up/afraid/lazy to read 5 short paragraphs, eh?

Some lawyer you'll make.

Drop me a line sometime after you've been kicked out of every lawfirm in town and you're stuck flipping burgers at Skinny Leroy's House of Beef.

If you think *I* take myself too seriously, then maybe you're not taking yourself seriously enough. Or is that too adult a puzzle?

I'm through with this post... on to something that's worth my time.

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-Londo's Hair
"Vir, intelligence has nothing to do with politics!"

Re: Let\'s Get Real Here

I scanned your post, though i did not deem it worthy of an actual "read through." I think I saw something about lazy or dumb or something to that effect. How was what you wrote any differently than...

"I hate you PoT. You are mean and dumb. You pick on me and my friends and it sucks... and my mommie still says you are the boogie-man!"

Maybe one day, you'll tell me the difference.

Re: Let\'s Get Real Here

One last thing to all the "fact" maniacs out there...how do you back up an opinion with facts?

Re: Let\'s Get Real Here

Fact:Ice cream has lots of sugar
Opinion:I like Ice Cream.


There you go.

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"I'd like to live just long enough to be there when they cut off your head and stick it on a pike as a warning to the next ten generations that some favors come with too high a price. I'd look up at your lifeless eyes and wave like this. Can you and your associates arrange it for me, Mr. Morden?"
Vir - In The Shadow of Z' HA Dum

Re: Let\'s Get Real Here

I like the color black better than the color green.

What facts can back that up?

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Re: Let\'s Get Real Here

No one said all opinions have to have fact behind them.

And guess what that's not a contradiction. Just more information to simplify things for you. Just because I don't state certain things then come back and add them in doesn't make it a contradiction.

Everyone(besides you) uses some fact for they're opinions on whether or not Crusade will come back. So if you're going to come on and just blast everyone for thinking it could come back,then we expect some facts to back it up.

This is the end of the conversation. I'm tired of writing all this and having you not read it. If you don't get the point now then you probably never will.

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"I'd like to live just long enough to be there when they cut off your head and stick it on a pike as a warning to the next ten generations that some favors come with too high a price. I'd look up at your lifeless eyes and wave like this. Can you and your associates arrange it for me, Mr. Morden?"
Vir - In The Shadow of Z' HA Dum

Re: Let\'s Get Real Here

Or better -

Opinion: Eating too much ice cream is not good for you.

Fact in support of opinion: Ice cream is high in fat and studies have shown that a high-fat diet is bad for you.

Opinion: The Yankees will the pennant this year.

Facts in support of opinion: Analysis of rosters of other teams, pitching stats, schedule of opposing teams, etc., etc.

Opinion: The Democratic (or Republican) candidate is mostly like to win the race for mayor.

Facts in support of opinion: Public opinion poll results, relative size of campaign war chests, media expenditures.

An opinion is a statement of personal belief about a thing, situation or event that is ultimately factual and exists outside the speaker. It is therefore subject to critcism based on factual criteria. ("My kid's Pee-Wee League football team can beat the New York Giants in a regulation game" is an opinion that can be readily proven wrong by facts.)

"Chocolate ice cream tastes better than vanilla" is not an opinion, it is statement about one's personal taste, much like "DS9 is a better show than B5." It is internal to the speaker and cannot be proven or disproven by reference to objective criteria. Since this is a matter of preference, not opinion, it is true for the person making the statement and cannot be debated.

"I think chocolate ice cream is healthier than vanilla" is an opinion and of course facts can be mustered on either side of the argument. "Get real, chocolate ice cream is better than vanilla" is an opinion masquerading as fact. Such positive statements offered without supporting evidence should be ignored. And in future will be, at least by me.

Regards,

Joe

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Joseph DeMartino
Sigh Corps
Pat Tallman Division

Re: Let\'s Get Real Here

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Joseph DeMartino:
Wombat Control:

?????

Almost every objection you raised was discussed and an answer or alternative given in the posts above. Did you read any of them?

(To mention just one, the sets were not "lost" when Martial Law took over the old Babylonian facilities several months after filming finished. The sets were broken down and placed in storge on orders from Warner Bros. as soon as production was halted, in Feburary 1999. Babylonian didn't move out of the building until after post-production work on the 13 episodes was completed in April or May. There have been recent reports from reliable sources that some of these sets, as well as props, costumes and other material, have already left Los Angeles en route to Vancouver for use in the Rangers pilot film.)

Regards,

Joe
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

One the first account yes... I suppose a little redunduncy won't kill anyone. I had read your earlier posts but brain and fingers hadn't quite connected well.

For the workload problem there's an option that hasn't been discussed. Fiona Avery could easily take over the Crusade production. She was the reference editor for the series and would probably be the natural choice for the job. That does still leave the cast, but that's the only major hurdle left.

As for the sets, I was under the impression that they were not kept in storage but were permanently struck after a time. If its true that they were not then that bodes quite well for a Crusade return. I was unaware of the politics behind all that - I knew that props and costumes *were* kept, but not sets. It's only natural that anything remaining from Babylonian would be shipped to Vancouver for the shoot. Glad to get the facts straight on that.

POT - obviously you're completely biased against Crusade. Fine. Just don't expect anyone to take your word as gospel, and don't whine when they don't. Go get some fresh air and calm the frell down.

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WombatControl
http://www.flarn.com/wombatcontrol/
"Who let the spoo out? Sigh sigh sigh sigh sigh..."