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Old December 14th 13, 12:46   #1
Republibot 3.0
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Vangelis and Franke?

So this is curious, and I've never heard anyone mention it before.

We all know the B5 season 1 theme, and subsequent variations.

Today in the car I was listening to this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fBva3nnCMvA

and I noticed that around 3 minutes in, there's a vocal progression that is VERY close to the B5 theme. Then it's played over and over again for the last couple minutes of the piece, with some sort of casually-martial music drums in the background.

Vangelis "The City" came out around 1991, I think, and Franke's B5 career started in 1994.

I am not accusing anyone of plagiarism, just pointing out the similarities.
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Old December 15th 13, 03:19   #2
JonFrain
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Re: Vangelis and Franke?

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Originally Posted by Republibot 3.0 View Post
So this is curious, and I've never heard anyone mention it before.

We all know the B5 season 1 theme, and subsequent variations.

Today in the car I was listening to this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fBva3nnCMvA

and I noticed that around 3 minutes in, there's a vocal progression that is VERY close to the B5 theme. Then it's played over and over again for the last couple minutes of the piece, with some sort of casually-martial music drums in the background.

Vangelis "The City" came out around 1991, I think, and Franke's B5 career started in 1994.

I am not accusing anyone of plagiarism, just pointing out the similarities.
Eh the first two pairs of notes sound close but the third pair is way off.

When it comes to music, I'm sure that things are more likely to be left in someones subconscious than outright stolen in most cases. Also, I wouldn't be surprised if Franke works on stuff and doesn't incorporate it into a work until years later.

Music like that and Franke's stuff is sadly getting dated. Too much use of synthesizers and such. I wonder if Franke would ever consider redoing some of them without so much reliance on those old synth sounds.
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Old December 15th 13, 04:57   #3
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Re: Vangelis and Franke?

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Eh the first two pairs of notes sound close but the third pair is way off.
Yeah, it's not exact, but it's close enough that my kid recognized it right away.

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When it comes to music, I'm sure that things are more likely to be left in someones subconscious than outright stolen in most cases. Also, I wouldn't be surprised if Franke works on stuff and doesn't incorporate it into a work until years later.
I never said, nor implied it was plagiarism. Quite the opposite. It's a 4-note progression. That gives 7744 possible combinations of any two notes, and 15,488 possible combinations of four notes. This can be reduced considerably by the fact that some notes simply sound better together than others. My point being It's a finite number, and it's going to happen every once in a while by simply by random chance. And as you point out, it's not exact.

It is, however, very close.

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Music like that and Franke's stuff is sadly getting dated. Too much use of synthesizers and such. I wonder if Franke would ever consider redoing some of them without so much reliance on those old synth sounds.
Well, I'll always have a fondness for Vangelis. He's simply a good composer who has a great ear for melody and does interesting things. The Blade Runner soundtrack was amazingly influential, and is still a pretty common part of the musical landscape. Check out the music from "Stargate: Universe" sometime. Of coruse I've got a fondness for electronic music anyway.

I'll be honest: I never cared for Tangerine Dream in particular (With the exception of "Tyger") or Christopher Franke in general. I don't mean that to sound insulting, there was some good music in there (Season 5 theme, and the scene where the Narn are fighting off the Gropos) but on the whole, I consistently found B5's music to be the weakest part of the series. Even in '94 it sounded kinda' cheezy and bland and over-synthed. (Again: I like electronic music a lot, but there are cases where a simple chord in a simple style just is too much of not a good thing). If he were to try it again with modern equipment and like a decent Synthestra as they use on most genre shows now, I'd gladly give it another shot, but he just did't do it for me at the time, and I agree it hasn't aged well.

This is not intended to be an insult to anyone. I know a lot of people on here really love the stuff. I'm just saying it's not to my tastes.
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Old April 29th 14, 13:47   #4
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Re: Vangelis and Franke?

Agree on Vangelis. The Blade Runner soundtrack, all these years later, doesn't sound dated at all. Stylistically perhaps, but the sound palette is very rich and well realised.

Conversely, Franke's work on B5 sounds hideously dated now, and the synth patches weren't that great to begin with.
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Old April 29th 14, 23:42   #5
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Re: Vangelis and Franke?

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Agree on Vangelis. The Blade Runner soundtrack, all these years later, doesn't sound dated at all. Stylistically perhaps, but the sound palette is very rich and well realised.

Conversely, Franke's work on B5 sounds hideously dated now, and the synth patches weren't that great to begin with.
Yup. I liked Crusade a bit better as the music was frequently somewhat at odds with what we saw onscreen, and the dissonance intrigued me. The music doesn't stand on its own, though. I've tried playing it just as music, not as background, and it doesn't work much.

Conversely, I think the Joel Goldsmith stuff for Stargate holds up pretty well. He mostly used "Synthestras," but he seems a bit more deft at handling them, or perhaps it's just that he was a bit more formal as a composer. In Stargate: Universe he was very openly channeling Vangelis' Blade Runner. I pray someday they'll release an SGU soundtrack.
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Old April 30th 14, 12:37   #6
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Re: Vangelis and Franke?

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Conversely, I think the Joel Goldsmith stuff for Stargate holds up pretty well. He mostly used "Synthestras," but he seems a bit more deft at handling them, or perhaps it's just that he was a bit more formal as a composer. In Stargate: Universe he was very openly channeling Vangelis' Blade Runner. I pray someday they'll release an SGU soundtrack.
The SGU soundtrack really is quite something. It's rare that music on a show really catches my attention beyond it being 'functional'. Some of the composition on SGU (especially season 2) echoed my love of minimal classical. It should be released. If Franke can release countless B5 CDs, then surely Goldsmith could put out the SGU stuff.
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Old April 30th 14, 15:45   #7
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Re: Vangelis and Franke?

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Conversely, I think the Joel Goldsmith stuff for Stargate holds up pretty well. He mostly used "Synthestras," but he seems a bit more deft at handling them, or perhaps it's just that he was a bit more formal as a composer. In Stargate: Universe he was very openly channeling Vangelis' Blade Runner. I pray someday they'll release an SGU soundtrack.
The SGU soundtrack really is quite something. It's rare that music on a show really catches my attention beyond it being 'functional'. Some of the composition on SGU (especially season 2) echoed my love of minimal classical. It should be released. If Franke can release countless B5 CDs, then surely Goldsmith could put out the SGU stuff.
Well, he's a little bit dead at the moment, so that's an impediment. But I totally agree that SGU was among his best work (Way better than, say, "Laserblast" from 1978) MGM has never had terribly much interest in releasing thier soundtracks, alas. There's a lot of stuff I'd like to have, and SGU is at the head of the list. And it being the last stuff he ever worked on makes it all the more imperative that it gets a release.

I'd petition MGM if I thought it'd do any good, and if I knew who to send it to. (Given their ongoing financial crisis, I doubt publishing music with only a niche following is a priority for them)
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Old April 30th 14, 16:20   #8
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Re: Vangelis and Franke?

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I'd petition MGM if I thought it'd do any good, and if I knew who to send it to. (Given their ongoing financial crisis, I doubt publishing music with only a niche following is a priority for them)
Probably best to petition one of the labels, Intrada or LaLaLand, but I'm guessing if there was any likelihood of releasing it they would have already. But yeah, MGM's troubles seem to be why we're not going to get any extended Bond scores anytime soon either. Would love a complete Moonraker.

I wonder why Goldsmith Jnr never got to score more movies guess his dad took all the good gigs.

As for Franke's work sounding dated I think that's a matter of opinion. I still think it sounds pretty unique as far as TV and SF scores go. I'll never tire of it.
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