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Kosh and Ulkesh

Alluveal

Alluveal

Regular
I know it's been stated that Ulkesh is the more militant of the two and Kosh was more curious (especially about the humans.) But, I tell ya, Ulkesh almost acts like a female in the episodes I've seen. Haughty and pompous when Delenn sees her first Vorlon. Honked off beyond belief when Morden and his pals turns Kosh into Minbari flarn and Lyta wasn't there.

I'm convinced, Ulkesh is a she. I know it flies into the face of all JMS has stated, but think about it. Ulkesh has such female tendencies! Hell hath no fury!

:D
 
Well, originally Kosh did have a life-mate named Velana, but jms eventually decided to dump her from the story in effort to keep the Vorlons more alien.
 
I don't belive that the Vorlons have a "gender", but I see what you mean.
 
It's pretty well understood that the Vorlons are sexless, at least as we know them. I again cite Lorien's comment about Kosh: "Is that its name?" We refer to Kosh as "he" out of convenience and personal preference.

Now, Kosh manifests himself as a father figure. Personally I didn't feel Ulkesh expressed itself with any clear gender bias.
 
Now, Kosh manifests himself as a father figure. Personally I didn't feel Ulkesh expressed itself with any clear gender bias.
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It's not entirely clear to me that Kosh was expressing any clear gender bias either.

It's important, when saying that he manifested as a father in every case that we saw in the series, to remember that in this case "every case" still represents a pitifully small sample space that does not come cloes to being statistically significant.

Maybe Kosh was predisposed to present himself (for lack of a better pronoun) in masculine forms. However, it could just as easily be that Kosh was presenting the image of the parent with whom the subject had the stronger sense of identification.
 
I agree; it is much more likely that Kosh chose to appear as Sheridan's father and G'Kar's because that was the person they would respond to most strongly than that he/she/it was expressing some aspect of his own personality. (More likely "he" was expressing some aspect of JMS's personality as both attachment to a father and conflict with one are common themes in all his writing with many different characters. ;))

Regards,

Joe
 
I know it's been stated that Ulkesh is the more militant of the two and Kosh was more curious (especially about the humans.) But, I tell ya, Ulkesh almost acts like a female in the episodes I've seen. Haughty and pompous when Delenn sees her first Vorlon. Honked off beyond belief when Morden and his pals turns Kosh into Minbari flarn and Lyta wasn't there.

I'm convinced, Ulkesh is a she. I know it flies into the face of all JMS has stated, but think about it. Ulkesh has such female tendencies! Hell hath no fury!

:D
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Well, if I see Ulkesh running around with a pair of pumps and a purse that match his encounter suit I'll believe you. :LOL:
 
Possibly
Vorlons = order => father figure = male
Shadows = allowing the children to play (at war) => mother's role = female
 
Wait- maybe I'm being stupid here, but wasn't Ulkesh the Vorlon on the Minbari homeworld? I always thought that Kosh's replacement on B5 was a different Vorlon entirely, sent from the homeworld? One who was more sympathetic to the Vorlon agenda than Kosh.
 
Yes, I believe Ulkesh was the same Vorlon that was first on Minbar, then B5.

Oh, and both Kosh and Ulkesh appeared to Delenn and Lenonn in ITB. ;)
 
I think JMS confirmed that it was all the same Vorlon, yes -- although not about which Vorlons were on B4 with Valen, I don't believe.
 
No, I don't remember him saying anything about that, but the suits look like Kosh and Ulkesh. Of course, it doesn't mean that is IS them, but it does look like them.
 
Also: Vorlons = order => father figure = male + Shadows = allowing the children to play (at war) => mother's role = female == shallow.
 
Ulkesh was the second Vorlon on Babylon 4, the ambassador to the Minbar and replacement ambassador to Babylon 5.
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I don't think so, why would it wear two different colour encounter suits? I don't think the vorlons worry about fashion
 
First, I'm pretty sure that all Vorlons except Kosh wear the same color encounter suit, i.e. the two suits you're talking about are one and the same, and second, JMS has confirmed Ulkesh was both the Vorlon on Minbar and the second ambassador.
 
We only see three individual Vorlons in the entire series. One of them is the Volron projection in "Into the Fire" That is the only time we see that Vorlon. Every other time we see a Vorlon it is Kosh, Ulkesh or the two of them together. And it is certainly possible that a Vorlon might change an encounter suite once or twice in a few thousand years. :) (It is also possible that during Valen's war they wore identicatl suits when "out in public" to obscure their indvidual identities and to hide their numbers.)

Regards,

Joe
 
Did they also walk single file? That's the classic method of hiding numbers.



*slaps self*

Sorry about that. Good point on the Vorlon projection, Joe. But I notice you're not counting the glimpse of a Vorlon we caught in Lyta's memory of the Homeworld. Unless that was Ulkesh? It wasn't Kosh, he'd swapped suits by then.
 
Did they also walk single file? That's the classic method of hiding numbers.
Click to expand...

For creatures who leave footprints. DO Vorlons have feet? :)


*slaps self*
Click to expand...

Thank you for saving me the trouble. :)

But I notice you're not counting the glimpse of a Vorlon we caught in Lyta's memory of the Homeworld.
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Well that was less a matter of 'not counting" than of "completely forgetting about". :)

It wasn't Kosh, he'd swapped suits by then.
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Hard to say. Maybe that's what he wears when he's just lounging around the homeworld. :) Or, again, maybe they all wear "standard issue" around sub-creatures like Lyta unless there's a reason to let them distinguish between two Vorlons. Finally (and this is a hard area for me to keep track of because I'm slightly color-blind) maybe Kosh is the only Vorlon to have a truly "personal" encounter suit, and that this is one of his eccentricities, tolerated by the others after Valen's war - and when he's away from the Homeworld, but otherwise frowned upon.

Regards,

Joe
 
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